Sopranos Question for Quasimodo (and anyone else) *SPOILERS*

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_Some Schmo
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Sopranos Question for Quasimodo (and anyone else) *SPOILERS*

Post by _Some Schmo »

Hey Quasi, I thought about posting this in the other thread but didn't because it'll have spoilers I don't want Jersey Girl to see, and I think the subject deserves its own thread.

If you intend to watch the series and haven't seen the final season of The Sopranos, I recommend getting out of this thread now.




**** SPOILERS ****


What is your take on the ending scene of the last episode?

The 10th anniversary of the final episode was just last month, so when I googled it the other day, I was pleasantly surprised to see all kinds of articles on this subject. I never thought to ask anyone else what they thought except my wife. I guess there's been a whole internet conversation about this in the last decade, and it still rages on. I'm not surprised by this, but wonder why I never thought to google it before.

Anyway, when I first saw it, I was one of those people who thought my recording was cut off. Then I saw the credits roll and realized, Tony's dead! I think it's quite clearly Tony dying from his point of view, which is to say, he's looking up one second to see who's coming through the front door, and the next second, he's dead (10 seconds of black screen and silence). Even before Gandolfini died, I always scoffed at the idea of a Sopranos movie. What would it be without Tony?

For some reason, my initial suspicion was that the whole restaurant blew up - nobody saw anything. But after reading some very compelling arguments, I guess I'm swayed to believe it was the man in the members only jacket coming out of the bathroom with a head shot for Tony.

I've read numerous arguments on both sides in the last couple days, and most of the arguments in the "life goes on" camp seem to me to be some variation of "I don't want Tony to die" or "what a ripoff!" I've seen very few compelling arguments for why it's not a sudden head shot.

So, I thought I'd get your take on it. I'm open to a good argument for why he lived past that scene.
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_Jersey Girl
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Re: Sopranos Question for Quasimodo (and anyone else) *SPOIL

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Okay won't read it.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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_Some Schmo
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Re: Sopranos Question for Quasimodo (and anyone else) *SPOIL

Post by _Some Schmo »

Jersey Girl wrote:Okay won't read it.

I look forward to you reviving this thread in the future, Jersey Girl.
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_subgenius
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Re: Sopranos Question for Quasimodo (and anyone else) *SPOIL

Post by _subgenius »

I didn't get a sense that he had died at all, but it's not an unreasonable conclusion.
I think you should revisit the episode and notice "who" all comes into the restaurant and who is sitting in restaurant.

It's a bit of artistry because you may hope the hero survives but want to assume karma/justice because it's the typical ending for a "gangster", like Dillinger I suppose - but what of Capone?

As a story ending the ambivalence is a bit sloppy...but the abrupt and sudden manner by which Chase drops it on the audience makes for good television.

Nice topic by the way
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_Some Schmo
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Re: Sopranos Question for Quasimodo (and anyone else) *SPOIL

Post by _Some Schmo »

Quasi?

*tap tap tap*

Testing... testing, 1... 2... 3... Is this thing on?
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_Quasimodo
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Re: Sopranos Question for Quasimodo (and anyone else) *SPOIL

Post by _Quasimodo »

Some Schmo wrote:Hey Quasi, I thought about posting this in the other thread but didn't because it'll have spoilers I don't want Jersey Girl to see, and I think the subject deserves its own thread.

If you intend to watch the series and haven't seen the final season of The Sopranos, I recommend getting out of this thread now.


Just a little music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjzHMhBtf0

I think they were trying to leave an opening for another season. Who can blame them? The Sopranos was the ultimate cash cow. I think they left it vague for that reason. It could have gone anywhere from that point. I hear there has been talk of making a sequel based on Anthony and Meadow now that Gandolfini has passed. I would love to see it, but I don't know how serious they are about producing it.

"Just a city boy
Born and raised in South Detroit
He took the midnight train
Goin' anywhere
"
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_Some Schmo
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Re: Sopranos Question for Quasimodo (and anyone else) *SPOIL

Post by _Some Schmo »

Quasimodo wrote:Just a little music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjzHMhBtf0

"Just a city boy
Born and raised in South Detroit
He took the midnight train
Goin' anywhere
"

I re-watched the ending a couple times as a result of reading some stuff about the finale, and had that song in my head for two days.

I think they were trying to leave an opening for another season. Who can blame them? The Sopranos was the ultimate cash cow. I think they left it vague for that reason. It could have gone anywhere from that point. I hear there has been talk of making a sequel based on Anthony and Meadow now that Gandolfini has passed. I would love to see it, but I don't know how serious they are about producing it.

Well, I certainly agree with the idea that if they'd wanted to revive the story, this was a good way to go.

The thing is, David Chase has said in subsequent interviews that "all the answers are there if you look for them." So it seems to me he had something definite in mind when he shot the scene.

I suppose the major reason I think it was a head shot is that everything in that show has always felt purposeful. I don't think they did anything to be lazy or on accident. I also don't think they did it to screw with people or because they didn't know how to end it. I think they were trying to say something very poignant, and in an incredibly artful way. I suppose part of it is that it is exactly how I personally imagine death: one second you're there, the next... nothing.

So, other than the sort of meta you provided, which was the business reason for the ending, do you have a theory about what really happened (story-wise), or are you saying that you just don't know because they didn't show anything?
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_Quasimodo
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Re: Sopranos Question for Quasimodo (and anyone else) *SPOIL

Post by _Quasimodo »

Some Schmo wrote:
Quasimodo wrote:Just a little music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjzHMhBtf0

"Just a city boy
Born and raised in South Detroit
He took the midnight train
Goin' anywhere
"

I re-watched the ending a couple times as a result of reading some stuff about the finale, and had that song in my head for two days.

I think they were trying to leave an opening for another season. Who can blame them? The Sopranos was the ultimate cash cow. I think they left it vague for that reason. It could have gone anywhere from that point. I hear there has been talk of making a sequel based on Anthony and Meadow now that Gandolfini has passed. I would love to see it, but I don't know how serious they are about producing it.

Well, I certainly agree with the idea that if they'd wanted to revive the story, this was a good way to go.

The thing is, David Chase has said in subsequent interviews that "all the answers are there if you look for them." So it seems to me he had something definite in mind when he shot the scene.

I suppose the major reason I think it was a head shot is that everything in that show has always felt purposeful. I don't think they did anything to be lazy or on accident. I also don't think they did it to screw with people or because they didn't know how to end it. I think they were trying to say something very poignant, and in an incredibly artful way. I suppose part of it is that it is exactly how I personally imagine death: one second you're there, the next... nothing.

So, other than the sort of meta you provided, which was the business reason for the ending, do you have a theory about what really happened (story-wise), or are you saying that you just don't know because they didn't show anything?


I truly don't know because I don't think David Chase knew either. Gandolfini backed out a season before this and they had to coax him back (with a lot of money). I don't think they thought they could ever get him back again but, just in case, they wrote an ending that could work in several different ways.

Just my opinion, of course, but I think if you are confused about any Sopranos episode, just listen to the music. The main song in the last episode is titled "Don't stop believing."
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_Some Schmo
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Re: Sopranos Question for Quasimodo (and anyone else) *SPOIL

Post by _Some Schmo »

Quasimodo wrote:I truly don't know because I don't think David Chase knew either. Gandolfini backed out a season before this and they had to coax him back (with a lot of money). I don't think they thought they could ever get him back again but, just in case, they wrote an ending that could work in several different ways.

Interesting. I was not aware that Gandolfini wanted out.

Quasimodo wrote:Just my opinion, of course, but I think if you are confused about any Sopranos episode, just listen to the music. The main song in the last episode is titled "Don't stop believing."

I read one person's take on that, and he was saying the lyrics are very descriptive of Carmella and Tony:

Carmella:

Just a small town girl
Livin' in a lonely world
She took the midnight train
Goin' anywhere

His thought was that she was lonely, and took a midnight train (which would be a dark train) going wherever it took her. A similar thing could be said for Tony:

Just a city boy
Born and raised in South Detroit
He took the midnight train
Goin' anywhere

One of the interesting things he pointed out was that they played the small town girl part while showing Carmella and Tony for city boy, but they had to lower the sound and had dialog to drown out when it mentioned "South Detroit."

Given that their whole lives ended up being taking risks for reward, it could be said they wouldn't stop believing they could keep getting away with their lifestyle. The interesting thing is that the scene cuts out after you hear, "Don't stop." It goes dark before the word "believing."
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
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Re: Sopranos Question for Quasimodo (and anyone else) *SPOIL

Post by _Jersey Girl »

I haven't read any of the posts except for Schmo's first comment that this was spoilers. I so promise.

John Heard will always be Peter McCallister to me and even though I don't know the context of the above clip, here's a Sopranos clip for the thread in his memory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsLOeYoG2S8
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
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