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 Post subject: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:29 pm 
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I saw this interesting comment about why the British have problems with Trump.

Someon asked “Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?” Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England wrote the following response:

A few things spring to mind.

Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever.

I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface.

Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront.

Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul.

And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist.

Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that.

He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat.

He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully.

That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead.

There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:

• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.

• You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss.

After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of ____. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum.

God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid.

He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart.

In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.

And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish:

‘My God… what… have… I… created?

If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:51 pm 
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I was born in England and mostly raised in the US. All of that makes perfect sense to me. Summed up, the man has no class.

He is the opposite of a proper gentleman. Something that still has meaning in the UK, but sadly may have lost it's meaning here.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:46 pm 
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Despite we Americans not grasping the proper gentleman bit (most of us have no clue about the desired position of the pinky finger while taking tea), the rest of the sentiments certainly rings true for Trump.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:22 pm 
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moksha wrote:
Despite we Americans not grasping the proper gentleman bit (most of us have no clue about the desired position of the pinky finger while taking tea), the rest of the sentiments certainly rings true for Trump.


:lol: Hi Penguin! Trust me, the gentleman bit is not about pinky fingers. It's about fairness and the way to treat others (especially women). It comes from the very old days and was called chivalry then.

They are rules that a gentleman follows that are not laws, but the rules are sacrosanct to anyone who wishes to consider himself a good person. They include compassion, not taking unfair advantage of people, respecting the rights of others, respecting women, defending the downtrodden and living an honest life.

Barack Obama was (and is) a gentleman. The subsequent President is not.

My father was a true gentleman and impressed on me how important those rules are. I hope I haven't let him down.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:30 pm 
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When I was in the UK last fall I took photos of the merchandise being sold in the shops that mocked Trump. It was all over the place in London. To say that they aren't favorably impressed by him would be a gross understatement of fact. Folks in London and Scotland know exactly what's going on regarding our politics and they definitely know what's up with Trump.

They think he's a clown.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:02 pm 
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The speaker in the House of Commons did not want Trump to address Parliament . I imagine it would be all about him.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:38 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
When I was in the UK last fall I took photos of the merchandise being sold in the shops that mocked Trump. It was all over the place in London. To say that they aren't favorably impressed by him would be a gross understatement of fact. Folks in London and Scotland know exactly what's going on regarding our politics and they definitely know what's up with Trump.

They think he's a clown.


Clowns are usually funny. As President, he is too scary to be funny. God help us.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:54 pm 
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Quasimodo wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
When I was in the UK last fall I took photos of the merchandise being sold in the shops that mocked Trump. It was all over the place in London. To say that they aren't favorably impressed by him would be a gross understatement of fact. Folks in London and Scotland know exactly what's going on regarding our politics and they definitely know what's up with Trump.

They think he's a clown.


Clowns are usually funny. As President, he is too scary to be funny. God help us.


He cannot be re-elected. He just cannot.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:27 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
He cannot be re-elected. He just cannot.


From your mouth to God's ears.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:45 am 
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Remember George Castanza in Seinfeld in a ill fitting dinner suit try to sell his opera ticket.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:00 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
He cannot be re-elected. He just cannot.

Not sure Murphy and his Laws on the Perversity of the Universe would agree with you. As Forrest Gump would put it, "Trump happens".

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:30 am 
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Putin probably has plans.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:06 pm 
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I believe the content of the OP was posted here before, but in that time, it has not lost its impact nor its insight.

Seriously, you have to be an asshole (or a whiny little ____) to actually like Trump. Admiring Trump is a massive character flaw, or an admission of willful ignorance. It represents a critical deficiency in character assessment.

In other words, Trump has two broad categories of fans: idiots and assholes. Haven't met an exception yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:09 pm 
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aussieguy55 wrote:
I saw this interesting comment about why the British have problems with Trump.

Someon asked “Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?” Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England wrote the following response:

A few things spring to mind.

Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever.

I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface.

Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront.

Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul.

And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist.

Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that.

He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat.

He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully.

That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead.

There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think ‘Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:

• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.

• You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss.

After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of ____. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum.

God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid.

He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart.

In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.

And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish:

‘My God… what… have… I… created?

If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.

This assessment of Trump is so obviously true to me, it is hardly even hyperbolic (if at all). I am both deeply dismayed and ashamed by how sizable a proportion of my fellow Americans don't or won't recognize this glaringly obvious reality!

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:48 am 
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Gunnar wrote:
This assessment of Trump is so obviously true to me, it is hardly even hyperbolic (if at all). I am both deeply dismayed and ashamed by how sizable a proportion of my fellow Americans don't or won't recognize this glaringly obvious reality!

That's why the most accurate assessment of his base is that of a mindless cult, which has recently awoken my resentment for religious "thought."

I was listening to NPR yesterday and they were talking about how poor people on disability are. The show was highlighting one particular case, and they said something to the effect that, "She does have a few things going for her. First, she has her faith..."

I thought, oh great, she's got her ____ mindset. She's built herself an edifice of nonsense to distract her from the ____ reality of her life. That will see her through her financial troubles. Awesome.

Humanity is in a race right now. Will we destroy religion or let it destroy us? I'm not optimistic. Religion makes otherwise normal people idiots ("we can't do anything about the planet. If god wants it, he'll save us").

Idiots.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:19 am 
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Perfume on my Mind wrote:
That's why the most accurate assessment of his base is that of a mindless cult, which has recently awoken my resentment for religious "thought."

I was listening to NPR yesterday and they were talking about how poor people on disability are. The show was highlighting one particular case, and they said something to the effect that, "She does have a few things going for her. First, she has her faith..."

I thought, oh great, she's got her ____ mindset. She's built herself an edifice of nonsense to distract her from the ____ reality of her life. That will see her through her financial troubles. Awesome.

Humanity is in a race right now. Will we destroy religion or let it destroy us? I'm not optimistic. Religion makes otherwise normal people idiots ("we can't do anything about the planet. If god wants it, he'll save us").

Idiots.


The utter arrogance, contempt, hatred and toxicity with which you post on this board is breathtaking.

I'm not even sure what is more disturbing, reading your posts or considering the real possibility that there may be a growing number of American citizens that behave and think like you.

Scary!


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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:12 am 
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Ceeboo wrote:
The utter arrogance, contempt, hatred and toxicity with which you post on this board is breathtaking.

Yes, yes. We're all familiar with your hypocrisy.

Ceeboo wrote:
I'm not even sure what is more disturbing, reading your posts or considering the real possibility that there may be a growing number of American citizens that behave and think like you.

Scary!

Not nearly as scary as a bunch of crazy zealots trying to modify public policy based on their idiotic fantasies.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:24 am 
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by the way, the Bill of Rights protects people's right to believe whatever the ____ they want. That's good protection from an authoritarian who would have you only believe state-approved ideas.

The problem is that it leads to people feeling like they have the right to ignore facts. It is protected, after all. So what's the remedy for people just living in their own realities while still protecting our rights?

All we can do is exert public pressure in the form of expressing our opinion and pointing out actual facts. That means if I hear someone talking about something that is demonstrably suspect, I get to say why it's nonsense. You get to push back. And so on, and so forth.

You can believe all the nonsense you want Ceeboo, and I get to tell you what I think of it. Great country, huh?

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:50 pm 
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Ceeboo wrote:
Perfume on my Mind wrote:
Religion makes otherwise normal people idiots ("we can't do anything about the planet. If god wants it, he'll save us").

Idiots.

The utter arrogance, contempt, hatred and toxicity with which you post on this board is breathtaking.

I'm not even sure what is more disturbing, reading your posts or considering the real possibility that there may be a growing number of American citizens that behave and think like you.

Ceebs, I’ve personally heard this sentiment (quoted by PoMM above) expressed in church, as well as echoed by several other family members in casual conversation.

How should someone respond to this?


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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:43 pm 
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Perfume on my Mind wrote:
by the way, the Bill of Rights protects people's right to believe whatever the ____ they want....

no, it does not ya moron.

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 Post subject: Re: Trump in the UK - Success?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:37 pm 
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canpakes wrote:
Perfume on my Mind wrote:
Religion makes otherwise normal people idiots ("we can't do anything about the planet. If god wants it, he'll save us").

Idiots.

Ceebs, I’ve personally heard this sentiment (quoted by PoMM above) expressed in church, as well as echoed by several other family members in casual conversation.

How should someone respond to this?

The really annoying thing about this is if science does come up with a solution (and of course, it's left to science - no church is going to save us), you just know there will be the assholes who come out and "praise god that he deigned us worthy of saving."

Kind of like when a doctor saves a cancer patient and god gets all the glory for "the miracle." Apparently, the doctor and the advances in medical science are just a conduit to god's will.

*puke*

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