It is currently Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:19 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:14 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:19 pm
Posts: 10015
Location: Multiverse
By Bruce Gerencser, former minister...

https://brucegerencser.net/why-i-hate-jesus/

..................

I don’t hate the flesh and blood Jesus who walked the dusty roads of Palestine, nor do I hate the Jesus found in the pages of the Bible. These Jesuses are relics of the past. I’ll leave it to historians to argue and debate whether these Jesuses were real or fiction. Over the centuries, Christians have created many Jesuses in their own image. This is the essence of Christianity, an ever-evolving religion bearing little resemblance to what it was even a century ago.

The Jesus I hate is the modern, Western Jesus, the American Jesus, the Jesus who has been a part of my life for almost fifty-eight years. The Jesuses of bygone eras have no power to harm me, but the modern Jesus – the Jesus of the three hundred thousand Christian churches that populate every community in America – he has the power to affect my life, hurt my family, and destroy my country. And I, with a vengeance, hate him.

Over the years, I have had a number of people write me about how the modern Jesus was ruining their marriage. In many instances, the married couple started out in life as believers, and somewhere along the road of life one of them stopped believing. The still-believing spouse can’t or won’t understand why the other spouse no longer believes. They make it clear that Jesus is still very important to them and if forced to choose between their spouse and family, they would choose Jesus. Simply put, they love Jesus more than they love their families.

Sadly, these types of marriages usually fail. A husband or a wife simply cannot compete with Jesus. He is the perfect lover and perfect friend, one who is always there for the believing spouse. This Jesus hears the prayers of the believing spouse and answers them. This Jesus is the BFF of the believing spouse. This Jesus says to the believer, you must choose, me or your spouse. It is this Jesus I hate.

This Jesus cares nothing for the poor, the hungry, or the sick. This Jesus has no interest in poor immigrants or unwed mothers. This Jesus cares for Tim Tebow more than he does a starving girl in Ethiopia. He cares more about who wins a Grammy or ACM Award than he does poverty-stricken Africa having food and clean water. It is this Jesus I hate.

This Jesus is on the side of the culture warriors. This Jesus hates homosexuals and demands they be treated as second class citizens. This Jesus, no matter the circumstance, demands that a woman carry her fetus to term. Child of a rapist, afflicted with a serious birth defect, the product of incest or a one night stand? It matters not. This Jesus is pro-life. Yet, this same Jesus supports the incarceration of poor young men of color, often for no other crime than trying to survive. This Jesus is so pro-life he encourages American presidents and politicians to slaughter innocent men, women, and children. This Jesus demands certain criminals be put to death by the state, even though the state has legally murdered innocent people. It is this Jesus I hate.

This Jesus drives fancy cars, has palaces and cathedrals, and followers who spare no expense to make his house the best mansion in town. This Jesus loves Rolexes, Lear jets, and expensive suits. This Jesus sees the multitude and turns his back on them, only concerned with those who say and believe “the right things.” It is this Jesus I hate.

This Jesus owns condominiums constructed just for those who believe in him. When they die, he gives them the keys. But, for the rest of humanity, billions of people, this Jesus says no keys for you. I have a special Hitler-like plan for you. To the ovens you go, only unlike the Jews, I plan to give you a special body that allows me to torture you with fire and brimstone forever. It is this Jesus I hate.

It is this Jesus who looks at Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists, Agnostics, Deists, Universalists, Secularists, Humanists, and Skeptics, and says to them before you were born I made sure you could never be in the group that gets the condominiums when they die. This Jesus says, and it is your fault, sinner man. It is this Jesus who made sure billions of people were born into cultures that worshiped other Gods. It is this Jesus who then says it is their fault they were born at the wrong place, at the wrong time. Too bad, this Jesus says, burn forever in the Lake of Fire. It is this Jesus I hate.

This Jesus divides families, friends, communities, and nations. This Jesus is the means to an end. This Jesus is all about money, power and control. This Jesus subjugates women, tells widows it’s their fault, and ignores the cry of orphans. Everywhere one looks, this Jesus hurts, afflicts, and kills those we love. It is this Jesus I hate. What I can’t understand is why anyone loves this Jesus? Like a clown on a parade route, he throws a few candies towards those who worship him, promising them that a huge pile of candy awaits them when they die. He lets his followers hunger, thirst, and die, yet he tells them it is for their good, that he loves them and has a wonderful plan for their life. This Jesus is all talk, promising the moon and delivering a piece of gravel. Why can’t his followers see this?

Fear me, he tells his followers. I have the keys to life and death. I have the power to make you happy and I have the power to destroy your life. I have the power to take your children, health, and livelihood. I can do these things because I am the biggest, baddest Jesus ever. Fear me and oppress women, immigrants, orphans, homosexuals, and atheists. Refuse my demand and I will rain my judgment down upon your head. But, know that I love you and only want is best for you and yours. It is this Jesus I hate.

Perhaps there is a Jesus somewhere that I could respect, a Jesus who might merit my devotion. For now, all I see is a Jesus who is worthy of derision, mockery, and hate. Yes, hate. It is this Jesus I hate. When the Jesus who genuinely loves humanity and cares for the least of these shows up, let me know. In the meantime, I hate Jesus.

_________________
"Eppur si muove"

--Galileo Galilei


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:49 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:16 pm
Posts: 27304
Location: Off the Deep End
I can so totally relate to this however, let me express what I think using some of his comments. Bear with me, I'm going to plagiarize the heck out of him.

These people care nothing for the poor, the hungry, or the sick. These people have no interest in poor immigrants or unwed mothers. These people care for Tim Tebow more than they do a starving girl in Ethiopia. They care more about who wins a Grammy or ACM Award than they do poverty-stricken Africa having food and clean water.

These are the so-called expressions and priorities of the Christians I can no longer stand to affiliate with.

These people are on the side of the culture warriors. These people hate homosexuals and demand they be treated as second class citizens. These people, no matter the circumstance, demands that a woman carry her fetus to term. Child of a rapist, afflicted with a serious birth defect, the product of incest or a one night stand? It matters not. These people are pro-life. Yet, these same people supports the incarceration of poor young men of color, often for no other crime than trying to survive. These people are so pro-life they encourage American presidents and politicians to slaughter innocent men, women, and children. These people demand certain criminals be put to death by the state, even though the state has legally murdered innocent people.

These are the so-called expressions and priorities of the Christians I can no longer stand to affiliate with.


These people drive fancy cars, has palaces and cathedrals, and followers who spare no expense to make his house the best mansion in town. These people have Rolexes, Lear jets, and expensive suits. These people see the multitude and turns his back on them, only concerned with those who say and believe “the right things.”

These are the so-called expressions and priorities of the Christians I can no longer stand to affiliate with.

And why? Because they have warped the Jesus of the Bible and genuinely created a Jesus in their own image. They have made him indifferent to the suffering of others, they have chosen a type of religious ethnocentricity over his teachings, they have chosen material wealth and status as a sign of their "fruits" and if Jesus were here today, they would turn a blind eye and pass him by on the street like the homeless and penniless person that he would be.

And there you have my own take on much of what is passed off as Christianity today, how Christianity often reveals itself to the world and why I no longer participate in organized religion. Thankfully, not all Christians live that way, however, it was enough for me to vote with my feet and walk out the door.

_________________
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb


Stay close to the people who feel like sunlight ~ Arsu Shaikh


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:10 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:29 pm
Posts: 3342
Location: The Yukon Hotel - 1187 Hunterwasser Los Angeles
The headline is fairly misleading, because obviously he doesn't hate Jesus, he hates the Christian interpretations of his life. I don't know very much about early Christian history, but before the Council of Nicea there were many records of the life of Jesus that did not make it into the Bible. The synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke) all came from what was called 'Document Q', an earlier document, and even Document Q was estimated to have been written 70 years after the death of Jesus. Portions of the synoptic gospels are virtually identical. So of the 4 Gospels, the bulk of 3 of the gospels came from an original document.

A more accurate title would be 'Why I Hate What Has Become of Jesus'. I would love to see a book that a layman could understand that explains the process of how the final selection the books for the New Testament happened.

_________________
"I am more Presidential than anybody, other than the great Abraham Lincoln."
- Donald Trump
"[Trump] will go down as the greatest president ever in American history."
- Maxine (Ajax) Waters
"The great problem of any civilization is how to rejuvenate itself without rebarbarization."
- Will Durant
Strange Fruit


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:31 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:19 pm
Posts: 10015
Location: Multiverse
MeDotOrg wrote:
The headline is fairly misleading, because obviously he doesn't hate Jesus, he hates the Christian interpretations of his life. I don't know very much about early Christian history, but before the Council of Nicea there were many records of the life of Jesus that did not make it into the Bible. The synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke) all came from what was called 'Document Q', an earlier document, and even Document Q was estimated to have been written 70 years after the death of Jesus. Portions of the synoptic gospels are virtually identical. So of the 4 Gospels, the bulk of 3 of the gospels came from an original document.

A more accurate title would be 'Why I Hate What Has Become of Jesus'. I would love to see a book that a layman could understand that explains the process of how the final selection the books for the New Testament happened.

Image

_________________
"Eppur si muove"

--Galileo Galilei


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:13 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:16 pm
Posts: 27304
Location: Off the Deep End
I edited all that stuff and Me lays it out in 7 sentences. And, I probably didn't even count those right.

Seriously.
:rolleyes:

_________________
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb


Stay close to the people who feel like sunlight ~ Arsu Shaikh


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:16 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:50 am
Posts: 9363
Location: Your mother's purse
MeDotOrg wrote:
The headline is fairly misleading, because obviously he doesn't hate Jesus, he hates the Christian interpretations of his life.

which is peculiar given that the criticism is how people use misrepresentations to achieve self-centered justification/excuses... "click bait" Christianity being criticized for being click-bait by click-bait writing.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:39 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:19 pm
Posts: 10015
Location: Multiverse
Image

_________________
"Eppur si muove"

--Galileo Galilei


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:48 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:59 am
Posts: 12087
I don't think there are many people in the world who follow a religion. I think most people find a religion (or a group of people apparently representing that religion) that loosely matches their own personal style and warp it in their own image. Everyone has their own personal god, because of course, since we don't have an actual example, everyone is forced to make up their own personal god (should they insist in believing in one).

Everyone discards from their religion what they don't like. Quote a bad verse from the bible and a believer will recast what it's saying or simply deny it's meaningful at all.

By the rules of religion, everyone's going to hell, because there's no way to get the right answer; there's no answer key. Everyone's making this ____ up as they go along.

I've met incredible people who are avid churchgoers and incredible dicks. Religion doesn't make people better, people make religion better (if at all). Religion is only as good as what the people who practice it bring to the table. So if you want to be a dick, religion is as acceptable an excuse as any.

If only people realized they can continue being who they are without all the pretense and unnecessary burden of a religion.

_________________
"You get to have your own beliefs, and your own wishes, and dreams, and imaginations. What you don't get to have is your own reality." - Sethbag

"Good thing your safe space isn't being violated with the horrors of self-awareness." - Dmetri Cromwell (some guy on Facebook)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:45 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:29 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: California
Quote:
By the rules of religion, everyone's going to hell, because there's no way to get the right answer;


I think you're onto something. You can never really say you've done enough to be worthy of heaven in religion because that would be pride.

Quote:
I've met incredible people who are avid churchgoers and incredible dicks.


I think you're right on the mark with that as well. I'd rather do business with a 1950s New York Jew than an LDS man from Provo Utah.

Quote:
If only people realized they can continue being who they are without all the pretense and unnecessary burden of a religion.


Belief in an afterlife with consequences is who I am. If you think I'm a monster now, imgagine if I believed there were no accounting for the decisions we make in life. My disagreement with most Christians is their belief that you can live however you please and ultimately be saved by grace and thus get the same result.

_________________
“There were mothers who took this [Rodney King LA riots] as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes ... They are not crooks.”

This liberal would be about socializing … uh, umm. … Would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:30 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 14569
Maxine Waters wrote:
If you think I'm a monster now, imgagine if I believed there were no accounting for the decisions we make in life


Uh. What would you be like without religion or faith in your life?

- Doc


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:51 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:29 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: California
Quote:
Uh. What would you be like without religion or faith in your life?

- Doc


I don't know, an absentee father, drug dealer, and a whoremonger? I'd probably still believe in having national borders and enforcing them. So I know that makes me a racist monster in the eyes of most people who read this board either way. I definitely would have killed some people who mistreated me in the past instead of putting it in God's hands and waiting until the after life for justice.

_________________
“There were mothers who took this [Rodney King LA riots] as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes ... They are not crooks.”

This liberal would be about socializing … uh, umm. … Would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:01 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 14569
Maxine Waters wrote:
Quote:
Uh. What would you be like without religion or faith in your life?

- Doc


I don't know, an absentee father, drug dealer, and a whoremonger? I'd probably still believe in having national borders and enforcing them. So I know that makes me a racist monster in the eyes of most people who read this board either way. I definitely would have killed some people who mistreated me in the past instead of putting it in God's hands and waiting until the after life for justice.


Image

- Doc


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:33 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:29 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: California
One quote of Schmo's quotes I've found true, "Virtue is it's own punishment."

_________________
“There were mothers who took this [Rodney King LA riots] as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes ... They are not crooks.”

This liberal would be about socializing … uh, umm. … Would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies.


Last edited by Maxine Waters on Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:38 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 14569
Maxine Waters wrote:
One quote of Scmo's I've found true, "Virtue is it's own punishment."


Mine is:

Hell is other people.

- Doc


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:23 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:59 am
Posts: 12087
Maxine Waters wrote:
Quote:
Uh. What would you be like without religion or faith in your life?

- Doc


I don't know, an absentee father, drug dealer, and a whoremonger?

If this is true (I don't really believe it, despite my overall opinion of what you write here), please... keep believing there's an afterlife with consequences.

_________________
"You get to have your own beliefs, and your own wishes, and dreams, and imaginations. What you don't get to have is your own reality." - Sethbag

"Good thing your safe space isn't being violated with the horrors of self-awareness." - Dmetri Cromwell (some guy on Facebook)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:04 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:17 pm
Posts: 4201
Location: California
Maxine Waters wrote:
Quote:
Uh. What would you be like without religion or faith in your life?

- Doc


I don't know, an absentee father, drug dealer, and a whoremonger? I'd probably still believe in having national borders and enforcing them. So I know that makes me a racist monster in the eyes of most people who read this board either way. I definitely would have killed some people who mistreated me in the past instead of putting it in God's hands and waiting until the after life for justice.

All I have to say about that is that if your fear of divine retribution in the hereafter is the only thing keeping you from being all those things, I fervently hope you never lose that religious faith. You are already bad enough as it is even with it!

_________________
No precept or claim is more deservedly suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:39 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:29 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: California
Quote:
You are already bad enough as it is even with it!


That view has a lot more to do with which political team I'm on in this life than who I actually am or how I actually behave. If I were a Democrat whoremonger like Bill Clinton you wouldn't consider me immoral. If I were the black guy in the book "A Time to Kill," you wouldn't have any problem with justifiable homicide.

If I held your beliefs Gunnar, what does it matter how I behave in this life? Why wouldn't I act in my own best interests? What does it matter what Jesus actually said or taught if he doesn't really have power over death? His kingdom was not of this world but the next. Following his teachings does not result in happiness if you take away the supernatural part of the story. It results in death in a very cruel manner.

_________________
“There were mothers who took this [Rodney King LA riots] as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes ... They are not crooks.”

This liberal would be about socializing … uh, umm. … Would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:12 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:59 am
Posts: 12087
Maxine Waters wrote:
If I held your beliefs Gunnar, what does it matter how I behave in this life? Why wouldn't I act in my own best interests? What does it matter what Jesus actually said or taught if he doesn't really have power over death? His kingdom was not of this world but the next. Following his teachings does not result in happiness if you take away the supernatural part of the story. It results in death in a very cruel manner.

The thing is, you can engage in behavior that is in your best interests without being a selfish prick. The two don't have to go hand in hand. There are practical reasons to be a decent human being.

For instance, I'd like to avoid jail. Seems like one good reason not to harm others. No Jesus needed.

_________________
"You get to have your own beliefs, and your own wishes, and dreams, and imaginations. What you don't get to have is your own reality." - Sethbag

"Good thing your safe space isn't being violated with the horrors of self-awareness." - Dmetri Cromwell (some guy on Facebook)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:53 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:17 pm
Posts: 4201
Location: California
Majax, I do not admire Clinton's Morality any more than I admire Trump's but he, at least, did not openly boast of his immorality like Trump did, nor was he anywhere near as willfully ignorant of science and history as Trump, nor nearly as incompetent nor as disdainful of basic constitutional rights such as freedom of speech and of the press, as Trump seems to be, nor was he nearly as overtly racist. More to the point, though, the fact of Clinton's immorality does not in the slightest detract from the seriousness and unacceptability of Trump's openly admitted and boasted of misogynistic behavior and attitudes. Using Clinton as an excuse for accepting Trump's misbehavior only compounds your own basic immorality. And, believe it or not, if you were a Democratic whoremonger like Bill Clinton, I would not consider you any less immoral or despicable simply because you were a democrat--much unlike your determination to continue to support Trump, despite his being his being a deplorable, Republican misogynistic idiot and female abuser! I never voted for Bill Clinton either!

You are wrong in thinking I would not have any problem in accepting "justifiable homicide" if you were the black guy in A Time to Kill, unless you caught the rapist in the act of trying to rape your daughter, and that were the only way to stop the rape.
Quote:
If I held your beliefs Gunnar, what does it matter how I behave in this life? Why wouldn't I act in my own best interests?

If you think I don't believe that treating others as I would like them to treat me is an important part of my own best interests, then you haven't the foggiest understanding of what I believe! It does indeed matter how I behave both for my own sake and that of others--especially my loved ones.
Quote:
What does it matter what Jesus actually said or taught if he doesn't really have power over death?

What an incredibly stupid question! Loving and gaining the respect and love of others by dealing honestly, amicably and generously with them is a positive benefit during this lifetime, regardless of whether there is any such thing as an afterlife or not. Living life that way is far more likely to be conducive to happiness and well being than ruthlessly abusing or trying to take unfair advantage of others. That you have any difficulty understanding this, doesn't bode well for either your intelligence or morality. If you can think of no better reason to behave well towards your fellow beings than fear of punishment or the promise of reward in heaven after you die, you don't deserve such heavenly reward any more than any who don't make any attempt to behave well.
Quote:
His kingdom was not of this world but the next.

I deny that he intended that his kingdom was to be only of the next world. I maintain that he intended for us to do as much as possible to establish his kingdom on this this world during our mortality, and that failure to make that attempt would disqualify us from being a part of it in the next world.
Quote:
Following his teachings does not result in happiness if you take away the supernatural part of the story. It results in death in a very cruel manner.

Nonsense! I know from my own personal experience that gaining friends and loved ones by dealing honestly and generously with them enhances my own happiness and sense of well being more that anything else I can do, regardless of my lack of belief in an afterlife. Millions of people, both religious and non-religious, would heartily agree with that, I'm sure. If you are incapable of understanding that, I feel deeply sorry for you!

There is nothing inherently cruel about coming to the end of one's life. The inevitability of death is neither inherently cruel nor not cruel. It is, at worst, just an unavoidable fact of reality. If their were no god or hereafter, who would one blame for the cruelty?

_________________
No precept or claim is more deservedly suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.

“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:28 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:19 pm
Posts: 10015
Location: Multiverse
Maxine Waters wrote:
Quote:
You are already bad enough as it is even with it!


That view has a lot more to do with which political team I'm on in this life than who I actually am or how I actually behave. If I were a Democrat whoremonger like Bill Clinton you wouldn't consider me immoral. If I were the black guy in the book "A Time to Kill," you wouldn't have any problem with justifiable homicide.

If I held your beliefs Gunnar, what does it matter how I behave in this life? Why wouldn't I act in my own best interests? What does it matter what Jesus actually said or taught if he doesn't really have power over death? His kingdom was not of this world but the next. Following his teachings does not result in happiness if you take away the supernatural part of the story. It results in death in a very cruel manner.


It's amoral people like yourself that need religion to keep you in line. Some of us have morality without sky daddies. Was there morality before the birth of Jesus? Of course. Don't pretend that Jesus invented it, we know better. :rolleyes:

_________________
"Eppur si muove"

--Galileo Galilei


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Bruce Gerencser: Why I Hate Jesus
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:16 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:29 pm
Posts: 1023
Location: California
Quote:
Was there morality before the birth of Jesus? Of course. Don't pretend that Jesus invented it, we know better.


I think you can still have morals without Christianity. The Vikings had their own idea of what virtue was. I doubt you'd agree much with it. But you're right, I think I'm a better person when I believe in a "sky Daddy." I need reasons. I need justice. This world alone does not provide that very often.

_________________
“There were mothers who took this [Rodney King LA riots] as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes ... They are not crooks.”

This liberal would be about socializing … uh, umm. … Would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Doctor Steuss, EAllusion, Google [Bot], Res Ipsa and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group