Do you believe God intervenes & answers prayers?

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_Polygamy Porter
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Post by _Polygamy Porter »

JoeNormal wrote:Hello everyone, this is my first post on this forum so perhaps I should introduce myself. I am an engineer, agnostic and father of twins. I have immigrated to this forum from the now defunct Tribune Religion forum.

This was perhaps the most disturbing thing I have ever read. I consider myself almost immune to strong emotion given the constant turmoil of daily life and my predisposition towards objective reason but as I read this, tears welled up in my eyes.

Long ago, I realized that if god exists, his/hers/its actions and motivations would have to be seen from a perspective far greater than our human perspective. However, I can see nothing positive from this event from any perspective I can imagine. I'm afraid this has become one more nail in the coffin of my faith. If there is a grand scheme, I have to wonder if we are anything more than cogs in its machinations.
I agree.

I am just pissed that some little Mormon girl prayed to god when she lost her stupid puppy on December 26, 2004. Otherwise he would have been out "urging" those kids to get off the beach...
_JAK
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Re: Do you believe God intervenes & answers prayers?

Post by _JAK »

Seven wrote:This question has been weighing on my mind after reading a horrific story of the torture and murder of a 2 year old boy Jamie Bulger. You can read the story here if you can stomach it: http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/bulger.asp


We see so many disturbing stories in the news everyday of innocent little children or good men and women who are kidnapped and tortured. Some are murdered and some are tortured slaves. After watching the movies "Hotel Ruwanda" and "Blood Diamond" I began to feel very insignificant to God. Why doesn't He care about these people? There is a documentary I want to see called "God grew tired of us" (appropriatly titled), about the African boys who escaped after watching their families murdered by Muslims for their belief in Christ.

Why do I think God would care about what I need if He allows all of these atrocities to happen?
My needs seem pretty shallow in comparison to the people and children crying out to God for help while He ignores their pleas. The innocent Jamie Bulger who was crying for his Mom while she is praying to God for help in finding her son, but He allowed these 10 year old boys to commit the most heinous crime on her little boy.

Why do we even bother asking God to help us? Why should we believe our prayers our so special that He would help us in whatever needs we have?

I know the TBM response would be that God can't interfere with our free agency.
If that is true, there would be no miracles in the scriptures and no stories of God saving anybody. If we believe the scriptures are true, then God does intervene with our agnecy. He picks and chooses who He will intervene with. When I hear stories from LDS who believe God intervened with Priesthood blessings, or saved them in a car accident, I want to ask them: "what makes you think you are so special that God saved you, yet He allows all of these innocent children or families to be victims of the most horrific crimes imaginable?"

I believe in God and Jesus Christ, but I don't understand why we should pray for their blessings or help anymore. I have an easier time believing God never intervenes, and allows nature to take its course. What are your beliefs?

If your prayers have been answered, why do you believe they were?

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Your first assumption: God is not warranted. There is no evidence for God. Hence, your belief in is irrelevant. Attempting to construct a rationale for particulars of the God invention is, therefore also irrelevant.

Second, dead people don’t have a story. Only people who survive a seemingly unsurvivable catastrophe tell stories. The dead tell no stories. So we never have their version of failed intervention by God.

You believe whatever religious mythology into which you were indoctrinated. If you were Muslim, you would believe some version of that mythology. Thus, what you believe is irrelevant to the extent that such belief is lacking in genuine evidence and factual support.

People believe their “prayers” were answered who are alive and have a story to tell. For example: if they prayed for recovery from a catastrophe which was theirs to endure (illness, accident, etc.) AND if they lived to tell a story, they may well believe their prayers were answered. Dead people don’t tell stories. So people who died yet
offered the same kind of prayer, have no story.

Only the friends and relatives can make up stories about the death.

There is no evidence for God, hence no evidence for God’s intervention as many wish and believe.

Your disbelief in God’s intervention is more rational. However, belief in God in the sense of any current religious mythology remains irrational.

JAK
_JAK
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Post by _JAK »

Seven wrote:
Actually, while it is true that God doesn't interfere with our agency, I think the more germaine TBM response should be verses like D&C 122:7 and Ether 12:27.

Because God has an eternal perspective (He knows that you will live forever), He is far more concerned with the condition of your spirit than when and how you live and die in mortality (Matthew 10:28).


Why do you believe God doesn't interfere with our agency if you believe in the scriptures? Would you agree that if He saves us from death or evil acts that He has intervened with anothers choice to harm us? What about when we make stupid choices?.......do you believe He has ever saved a person from harm and is that intervening with a consequence of our free agency?


Belief is irrelevant. What is the objective evidence for God? Failure to establish that makes the secondary issue “saved a person from harm” irrelevant.

Second, if one attempts to make that case, one is arguing for a whimsical, unfair God who plays favorites, who behaves with force as do people. Such a belief is in a selfish God myth which discriminates for and against what most religious myths argue are of the assumed God’s own creation. (Principles of evolution follow, historically, religious doctrines.)

JAK
_JAK
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Post by _JAK »

bcspace wrote:
With that logic, then God knows evil choices that are going to be made and knows the evil in ones heart. Why does he allow some to follow through with their acts and not others?


I think there are several plausible reasons but all are subordinate to this one. And that is that God, knowing our weaknesses and what we can and cannot overcome spiritually always ensures that we are in a position to succeed in that area AND stretches our ability and faith so that we can be saved in the Celestial Kingdom. Applies to both the victim and the perpetrator.


What’s your evidence for God? Evolving from previous notions of gods (plural), the invention of one God is religious dogma, not established fact. Absent genuine evidence for God, leaping to such a contrived conclusion is irrational.

Of course, religions are not rational. Keep that point in mind. Evidence, reviewed, tested and critically examined produces rational tentative conclusion. “Tentative” is important. Because science learns more every day, some conclusions are revised in the light of greater information/knowledge. Disease is not caused by God, it is caused by germs/bacteria, etc. As little as 200 years ago (and less) people believed that God was responsible for death caused by disease. Some still may, but the educated world knows better. God notions are irrelevant.

JAK
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