Three Heavens or Degrees of Glory

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_spotlight
_Emeritus
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Re: Three Heavens or Degrees of Glory

Post by _spotlight »

Here I wish to present in conclusion the incident of Satan's endeavor to stop the work in England, when the Gospel in this dispensation was first proclaimed there. You may laugh at it, all you Whites, Millikans, Drapers, Osborns and others who ridicule the scriptures and the power of God, but all the ridicule and contempt displayed in the world cannot destroy this testimony and the thousands of others which have been reported, but which it is not necessary to present in abundance here.

Sunday, July 30th (1837), about daybreak. Elder Isaac Russell (who had been appointed to preach on the obelisk in Preston Square, that day), who slept with Elder Richards in Wilfred Street, came up to the third story, where Elder Hyde and myself [Heber C. Kimball] were sleeping, and called out, "Brother Kimball, I want you should get up and pray for me that I may be delivered from the evil spirits that are tormenting me to such a degree that I feel I cannot live long, unless I obtain relief."

I had been sleeping on the back of the bed. I immediately arose, slipped off at the foot of the bed, and passed around to where he was. Elder Hyde threw his feet out, and sat up in the bed, and we laid hands on him, I being mouth, and prayed that the Lord would have mercy on him, and rebuked the devil.

While thus engaged, I was struck with great force by some invisible power, and fell senseless on the floor. The first thing I recollected was being supported by Elders Hyde and Richards, who were praying for me; Elder Richards having followed Russell up to my room. Elders Hyde and Richards then assisted me to get on the bed, but my agony was so great I could not endure it, and I arose, bowed my knees and prayed. I then arose and sat up on the bed, when a vision was opened to our minds, and we could distinctly see the evil spirits, who foamed and gnashed their teeth at us. We gazed upon them an hour and a half (by Willard's watch). We were not looking towards the window, but towards the wall. Space appeared before us, and we saw the devils coming in legions, with their leaders, who came within a few feet of us. They came towards us like armies rushing to battle. They appeared to be men of full stature, possessing every form and feature of men in the flesh, who were angry and desperate; and I shall never forget the vindictive malignity depicted on the countenances as they looked me in the eye; and any attempt to paint the scene which then presented itself, or
portray their malice and enmity, would be vain. I perspired exceedingly, my clothes becoming as wet as if I had been taken out of the river. I felt excessive pain, and was in the greatest distress for some time. I cannot even look back on the scene without feelings of horror; yet by it I learned the power of the adversary, his enmity against the servants of God, and got some understanding of the invisible world. We distinctly heard those spirits talk and express their wrath and hellish designs against us. However, the Lord delivered us from them, and blessed us exceedingly that day.

Elder Orson Hyde's supplemental description of the fearful scene is as follows, taken from a letter addressed to President Kimball:
Every circumstance that occurred at that scene of devils is just as fresh in my recollection at this moment as it was at the moment of its occurrence, and will ever remain so. After you were overcome by them and had fallen, their awful rush upon me with knives, threats, imprecations and hellish grins, amply convinced me that they were no friends of mine. While you were apparently senseless and lifeless on the floor and upon the bed (after we had laid you there), I stood between you and the devils and fought them and contended with them face to face, until they began to diminish in number and to retreat from the room. The last imp that left turned round to me as he was going out and said, as if to apologize, and appease my determined opposition to them, "I never said anything against you!" I replied to him thus: "It matters not to me whether you have or have not; you are a liar from the beginning! In the name of Jesus Christ, depart!" He immediately left, and the room was clear. That closed the scene of devils for that time.

http://www.sainesburyproject.com/Mormon ... estiny.pdf


Ether 3:16-17

16 Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh.

17 And now, as I, Moroni, said I could not make a full account of these things which are written, therefore it sufficeth me to say that Jesus showed himself unto this man in the spirit, even after the manner and in the likeness of the same body even as he showed himself unto the Nephites.


D&C 131:7-8

7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.


So we have these spirits that are in every way like us in form. They have mouths presumably with which to eat spirit food, and to talk with spirit vocal cords operating upon spirit air. They have spirit eyes with which to see via spirit photons that must be refracted through spirit corneas and lenses. They have ears to hear via spirit air. They have noses to smell spirit odors and tongues to taste spirit flavors.

Presumably the evil spirits living in France speak French while those living in Italy speak Italian etc. And they keep up with the ever evolving changes in language through time. What else have they to do?


The last child problem was simply a caricature of what I see you doing to resolve issues, i.e. just winging it. I'll take a look Don Bradley's thesis but whether peep stone or Urim and Thummin they are equally rather silly Clark.

Why you chose to embrace the philosophical position of the block Universe to deal with simultaneity issues of relativity I don't get at all.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
_spotlight
_Emeritus
Posts: 1702
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:44 am

Re: Three Heavens or Degrees of Glory

Post by _spotlight »

The things you chose to discard vs the things you chose to defend puzzles me. You casually disregard the great ages of the antediluvian patriarchs found within the standard works of your church while choosing to defend the book of Abraham (presumably because it elucidates the pre-existence). Abraham and Sarah both live to improbable ages according to biblical mythology. She supposedly lived to 127 and he to 175. Abraham takes Keturah to wife at an age beyond 100 and yet has no need of sildenafil, quite the stud! With God all things shall be possible!

Historicity
In the early and middle 20th century, leading archaeologists such as William F. Albright and biblical scholars such as Albrecht Alt believed that the patriarchs and matriarchs were either real individuals or believable composites of people who lived in the "patriarchal age", the 2nd millennium BCE. But, in the 1970s, new arguments concerning Israel's past and the biblical texts challenged these views; these arguments can be found in Thomas L. Thompson's The Historicity of the Patriarchal Narratives (1974), and John Van Seters' Abraham in History and Tradition (1975). Thompson, a literary scholar, based his argument on archaeology and ancient texts. His thesis centered on the lack of compelling evidence that the patriarchs lived in the 2nd millennium BCE, and noted how certain biblical texts reflected first millennium conditions and concerns. Van Seters examined the patriarchal stories and argued that their names, social milieu, and messages strongly suggested that they were Iron Age creations.[7] By the beginning of the 21st century, archaeologists had given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible historical figures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham#Historicity


Gen 47:9
So Jacob said to Pharaoh, "The years of my sojourning are one hundred and thirty; few and unpleasant have been the years of my life, nor have they attained the years that my fathers lived during the days of their sojourning."

Might he have been referring to the great ages of the antediluvians here?


I will start a new thread with some evidence that poses some problems for the existence of spirits. No need to continue a derail here.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
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