Three Heavens or Degrees of Glory

The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only. Heavily moderated. Rated G.
_LittleNipper
_Emeritus
Posts: 4518
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Three Heavens or Degrees of Glory

Post by _LittleNipper »

Heavens: – The 3 heavens

The Bible uses the word ‘heavens’ referring to many heavens not one heaven. Yes! There are more than one heaven.

As we see from creation, from Genesis, God created heavens not one heaven.

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

Some Bible versions have got Gen 1:1 wrong. The original word is ‘heavens’ (many) not heaven (one). See Bible translations and the most accurate Bible version.

Reason chapter 2 says,

Gen 2:1: Thus the heavens and the earth were finished

See that Gen 1:1 and Gen 2:1 are in agreement with one another talking of heavens (many). In some Bible versions, these two verses are not in agreement.

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens

God created heavens (many) not heaven (one).

Here are more Bible verses confirming God created heavens not one heaven
Det 32:1 Give ear, O you heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth

2 Sam 22:10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet

1Chr 16:26 For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens

Job 9:8 Which alone spreads out the heavens, and treads upon the waves of the sea

Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows his handiwork

Hag 2:6 For thus says the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land

Mk 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Since God created heavens not one heaven, how many heavens are there?

The 3 heavens
There are 3 heavens. We see Apostle Paul saying that he knew a man in Christ caught up in the third heaven.

2 Cor 12:2: I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knows) such a one caught up to the third heaven.

The 3 heavens are;

1st heaven
The first heaven is the earth’s atmosphere; the immediate sky. It is where birds and clouds are.

It is the heaven referred to in the Bible verses below.

Deut 11:17 And then the LORD’s wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit

Deut 28:12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season

Judges 5:4 LORD, when you went out of Seir, when you marched out of the field of Edom, the earth trembled, and the heavens dropped, the clouds also dropped water

Acts 14:17 Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.

2nd heaven
The second heaven is where moon, sun, stars and the planets are; the outer space.

It is the heaven referred to in the following Bible verse.

Deut 17:3: who has gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded

Psalms 19:4, 6 In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun. Its rising is from one end of the heaven and its circuit to the other end

Jer 8:2 and they shall spread them before the sun, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved, and whom they have served

Isa 13:10 for the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

3rd heaven
The third heaven is the dwelling place of God.

1 kings 8:30 …and hear you in heaven your dwelling place

Psalms 2:4 He that sits in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision

Matt 5:16 Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven

The third heaven is also referred to as heaven of heavens.

Deut 10:14: Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD’s your God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

1 King 8:27: But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have built?

2 Chr 2:6: But who is able to build him a house, seeing the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him? Who am I then, that I should build him an house, save only to burn sacrifice before him?

The third heaven is the Throne of God; the highest heaven; the paradise

2 Cor 12:2, 4: I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knows) such a one caught up to the third heaven. How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter

Therefore, there are 3 heavens, God created heavens and He dwells in the third heaven

God bless
_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Re: Three Heavens or Degrees of Glory

Post by _moksha »

LittleNipper, those levels seem almost academic. From a purely anecdotal standpoint, I've heard them described like:

1. A Xanadu of Pleasure with a spiritual maternity ward attached. A place of endless advancement if you toe the company line and make your quotas.

2. A place for those unwilling to make sizeable wagers at the divinely authorized Three-Card Monte Center.

3. The service industry hub keeping the Xanadu of Pleasure clean and fully stocked with many flavors of BYU Creamery treats.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_LittleNipper
_Emeritus
Posts: 4518
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Three Heavens or Degrees of Glory

Post by _LittleNipper »

moksha wrote:LittleNipper, those levels seem almost academic. From a purely anecdotal standpoint, I've heard them described like:

1. A Xanadu of Pleasure with a spiritual maternity ward attached. A place of endless advancement if you toe the company line and make your quotas.

2. A place for those unwilling to make sizeable wagers at the divinely authorized Three-Card Monte Center.

3. The service industry hub keeping the Xanadu of Pleasure clean and fully stocked with many flavors of BYU Creamery treats.

This is the perfect example where Mormon literature contradicts the Word of GOD known as the Bible.
_Maksutov
_Emeritus
Posts: 12480
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:19 pm

Re: Three Heavens or Degrees of Glory

Post by _Maksutov »

LittleNipper wrote:
moksha wrote:LittleNipper, those levels seem almost academic. From a purely anecdotal standpoint, I've heard them described like:

1. A Xanadu of Pleasure with a spiritual maternity ward attached. A place of endless advancement if you toe the company line and make your quotas.

2. A place for those unwilling to make sizeable wagers at the divinely authorized Three-Card Monte Center.

3. The service industry hub keeping the Xanadu of Pleasure clean and fully stocked with many flavors of BYU Creamery treats.

This is the perfect example where Mormon literature contradicts the Word of GOD known as the Bible.


How so? Is it the Xanadu or the Three Card Monte that's the problem? Since neither are mentioned in the Bible, it looks like you, Nipper, are the one mixing scripture with the teachings of men, which is, sorry buddy, Satan's way. But since Satan *is* mentioned in the Bible, your allegiance to him is a-okay. :lol:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_mikegriffith1
_Emeritus
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:24 pm

Re: Three Heavens or Degrees of Glory

Post by _mikegriffith1 »

Actually, the doctrine that there are multiple degrees of glory in heaven can be found in numerous ancient Jewish and Christian documents.

(Excuse me if this is a repost; my last reply seemed to go into draft mode and I can't find it!)
Mike Griffith
LDS Information Web Page
http://ldsinfo.miketgriffith.com/
_Maksutov
_Emeritus
Posts: 12480
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:19 pm

Re: Three Heavens or Degrees of Glory

Post by _Maksutov »

Smith was likely inspired by Swedenborg, who taught about degrees of heaven and was quite familiar to the people in New York and Pennsylvania. The Swedenborgians were the base for the growth of spiritualism in New York that happened in the years not long after Smith's death.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Themis
_Emeritus
Posts: 13426
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Three Heavens or Degrees of Glory

Post by _Themis »

ajax18 wrote:To me there should be an infinite number of heavens and degrees of glory because we're all individuals faced with an infinite number of decisions.

Should you be able to move around from one to another based on how you perform after you get there?
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
42
_I have a question
_Emeritus
Posts: 9749
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:01 am

Re: Three Heavens or Degrees of Glory

Post by _I have a question »

ajax18 wrote:To me there should be an infinite number of heavens and degrees of glory because we're all individuals faced with an infinite number of decisions.


What decisions will you need to make when you are all-knowing like God?
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Mittens
_Emeritus
Posts: 1165
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:07 am

Re: Three Heavens or Degrees of Glory

Post by _Mittens »

I have a question wrote:
ajax18 wrote:To me there should be an infinite number of heavens and degrees of glory because we're all individuals faced with an infinite number of decisions.


What decisions will you need to make when you are all-knowing like God?


Mormons teach God is not all knowing , even thou the Book of Mormon says he is :lol:


God himself is increasing and progressing in knowledge, power, and dominion, and will do so, worlds without end." Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses Vol. 6:120

2 Nephi 9:20 O how great the holiness of our God! For he knoweth all things, and there is not anything save he knows it.
Justice = Getting what you deserve
Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
_I have a question
_Emeritus
Posts: 9749
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:01 am

Re: Three Heavens or Degrees of Glory

Post by _I have a question »

And here’s the other point about eternity, decision making is irrelevant. Because eternity. You literally don’t need to make any decision because there’s no time relationship. You just are, forever.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
Post Reply