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 Post subject: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:41 am 
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The museum struggles with the use of the Bible to justify slavery and promote the Civil War.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act ... edc206d2ce

"The leaders of the Museum of the Bible asked many scholars for input about how to depict the Bible’s role in slavery and the Civil War, and ultimately chose to include the Confederate imagery. “We have to acknowledge the proslavery argument was often drawn from the Bible,” said Seth Pollinger, the museum’s director of content.

It was a fraught choice. Jonathan Alger stood last week in the nearly completed exhibit on the impact of the Bible in the world that his firm, C&G Partners, designed for the museum. He looked at the case showing proslavery arguments based on the Bible, including a 19th-century book titled, “A Brief Examination of Scriptural Testimony on the Institution of Slavery.”"

..............

It looks like Donald Trump is poised to make some bucks off it:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act ... 6c2f38b746

The leadership of the Museum of the Bible has been working hard in the run-up to this weekend’s opening to emphasize the inclusive, academic, apolitical nature of the museum, which organizers say will be the world’s largest dedicated to the Bible and sits just off the Mall.

And so its opening black-tie gala Thursday night is presenting a challenge: The $50,000-a-table fundraising event is at the Trump hotel.

Officials at the nonprofit museum say the decision was for pragmatic, scheduling reasons but some museum employees and academic consultants refused to enter the hotel affiliated with the controversial president.

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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:45 pm 
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What, in all honesty, is the good of a museum of an old book? Just curious. We are no longer in the old Medieval days of thinking, why keep a book going that keeps us there? It makes very little sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:11 pm 
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Philo, the Bible was written a thousand plus years before medieval days. Why should interest in it keep us in those medieval days?

I know little about the museum but presenting how people used the book to support and or condemn slavery is a good illustration on the limits and problems with trying to use it as an answer to everything book. (or thinking it is inerrant)


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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:36 pm 
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huckelberry wrote:
Philo, the Bible was written a thousand plus years before medieval days. Why should interest in it keep us in those medieval days?

I know little about the museum but presenting how people used the book to support and or condemn slavery is a good illustration on the limits and problems with trying to use it as an answer to everything book. (or thinking it is inerrant)


What and how an individual regards the Bible will affect how one applies the Bible. Those that seek the truth will regard any Biblical conflict as likely their own misunderstanding. Those that seek to promote their own agenda will seek only to either ignore such conflicts or claim such conflicts are errors demonstrating their own superiority. :ugeek:


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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:34 pm 
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Philo Sofee wrote:
What, in all honesty, is the good of a museum of an old book? Just curious.
how many of museums - around the world - show mummies?
or a religion uses them as theology? (ask shulem...)

Philo Sofee wrote:
We are no longer in the old Medieval days of thinking, why keep a book going that keeps us there?
aren't we there?
lenin and stalin (for example) were mummified in the twentieth century...

Philo Sofee wrote:
It makes very little sense.
as rebuild the ark.
--- Johan's Ark in Dordrecht, Netherlands. 137 meters (450 ft) long and carried on a platform made up of 25 LASH barges, this is the only full-scale Ark interpretation that is actually floating and mobile.
--- Noah's Ark theme park at Ma Wan Island, Hong Kong, China. This interpretation is also 137 meters (450 ft) long.
--- Ark Encounter theme park located on a hill in Grant County, Kentucky, United States. It is 155 meters (510 ft) long.





huckelberry wrote:
I know little about the museum but presenting how people used the book to support and or condemn slavery is a good illustration on the limits and problems with trying to use it as an answer to everything book. (or thinking it is inerrant)
LittleNipper wrote:
What and how an individual regards the Bible will affect how one applies the Bible.
some individuals use it:
- as a device to hide their ignorance behind the wings
- as a device to overload the bandwidth of a site

sounds familiar?

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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:40 am 
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Choyo Chagas wrote:
some individuals use it:
- as a device to hide their ignorance behind the wings
- as a device to overload the bandwidth of a site

sounds familiar?


You speak as though you were the one footing the bill, and all those reading along were wasting precious energy that would have been better applied in the study of your precious science fiction. :ugeek:


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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:06 pm 
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LittleNipper wrote:

What and how an individual regards the Bible will affect how one applies the Bible.

Nipper, I think this is a true and straightforward observation.

Little Nipper wrote:
Those that seek the truth will regard any Biblical conflict as likely their own misunderstanding. Those that seek to promote their own agenda will seek only to either ignore such conflicts or claim such conflicts are errors demonstrating their own superiority. :ugeek:

If a description of events and relationships appears to have conflicts there is still of course a truth not altered by the apparent conflicts. People need to seek that out. Prayer reason study of history and science could all be used to clarify our understanding and reveal that truth.

I think everybody ,including me and you may at times ignore a conflict because of our own agenda. It is good to stop and question oneself from time to time.

Seeking understanding to demonstrate personal superiority is corrupt. When it happens it is still possible that the understanding is true while the superiority corrupt. I hope we both avoid that.


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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:16 pm 
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It would be interesting to tour. I would like to see if a plurality of views of the Bible is represented.

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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:48 am 
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Maksutov wrote:
It would be interesting to tour. I would like to see if a plurality of views of the Bible is represented.
My brother is an imaging expert who has worked on the Archimedes Palimpsest and the Dead Sea Scheolls. He did some work for the Museum of the Bible. Next time I see him, I’ll ask him for details about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:26 am 
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richardMdBorn wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
It would be interesting to tour. I would like to see if a plurality of views of the Bible is represented.
My brother is an imaging expert who has worked on the Archimedes Palimpsest and the Dead Sea Scheolls. He did some work for the Museum of the Bible. Next time I see him, I’ll ask him for details about it.


Please do. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:22 pm 
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An article on the museum by a personal friend of mine:

https://thehumanist.com/commentary/take ... attraction

Running through these entertainments is an approach that struck me as pure Sunday school. All Bible stories are taken at face value, with no interjection of what the historical and archaeological evidence really shows. Trobisch countered that the purpose of the third-floor narratives is to treat the Bible as literature, as a collection of stories.


Artifacts from the Valley of David and Goliath
But the Bible as literature bumps into the Bible as history when we reach the exhibit “In the Valley of David and Goliath,” a collection of archaeological finds from the site of the ancient walled city of Khirbet Qeiyafa in the Elah Valley of Israel. Here, strained efforts are made to connect some of the artifacts to the folktale. For example, excavated sword blades are accompanied by a tenuously related Bible quote and dramatized by a large silhouette of Goliath. Another bit of signage asks metaphorically, “Have the footsteps of King David been discovered in the Elah Valley?” The exhibit’s saving grace is that this is an otherwise serious collection on loan from the Bible Lands Museum in Jerusalem. And consistent with standard practice, items are dated BCE rather than BC as in the rest of the museum.

In addition to there being scant scholarly discussion of the veracity of various Bible stories, there is also little doubt offered, beyond a few bumps in the road, of the Bible’s positive influence on the nation and the world. The trajectory of the Bible’s rise to prominence is onward and upward—a tale of success. Trobisch sympathized with my critique but suggested that the success framework is culturally appropriate for American audiences and thereby makes possible an engaging narrative that will draw people in.

......

For my part, I found the Museum of the Bible disappointing. I was hoping for more ancient artifacts, more art, more critical treatment of the material, and less showmanship. Perhaps I’m just old fashioned or too serious. But I did enjoy the display of books by Renaissance humanist Erasmus of Rotterdam, the beautiful illuminated manuscripts from the Middle Ages, and the delightful European paintings depicting themes from the Book of Ecclesiastes. But Washington, DC, offers a trove of collections all over the city, not the least of which are the holdings of the Library of Congress (including a Gutenberg Bible, which is something the Museum of the Bible lacks), the National Gallery of Art, the National Archives, and the various Smithsonians.

So unless the Bible is really your thing, I would give preference to other choices when visiting our nation’s capital.

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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:54 pm 
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http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... bible.html

Critics portray the 430,000-square-foot building, just a few blocks from the Capitol, as a propaganda showcase. But what I found was a surprising degree of frankness, even agnosticism. If you want the cartoon Bible, eternal and infallible, you can find it in quotes from Scripture on purple banners along the walls. “Every word of God is pure,” says one. “The law of the Lord is perfect,” says another. “The Word of our God stands forever,” says a third. But start poking around in the exhibits, and things get interesting. Many Bible stories, you soon learn, aren’t original. The flood, for instance, echoes Babylonian tales. “In each version, a growing population upsets a god,” a plaque explains dryly. “A single hero listens to the supreme being, builds a boat before a catastrophic flood, and then sends out birds.”

Next you discover that the holy book is full of spin. One placard describes how texts of the ancient Assyrians celebrated their conquests of Judean cities. Jewish and Christian bibles, describing the same events, “emphasize how God miraculously preserved Jerusalem.” Cyrus, the Persian king, saw himself as an instrument of Babylon’s deity. But writers of the Hebrew Bible, concerned with a different question—Is it good for the Jews?—”portray Cyrus as an agent of Israel’s God.” After every battle, Arameans and Moabites told the same story the Israelites did: Either their god led them to victory, or he punished them with defeat.

When Trobisch says there’s no such thing as “the” Bible, he’s alluding in part to the seven versions displayed along a wall on the museum’s fourth floor: Hebrew, Samaritan, Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Assyrian. Each has its own selection of texts, a sign on the wall observes, “yet each one is a Bible.” In display cases, you can read about the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip, and other texts that haven’t made the cut. But don’t count them out. Such “Apocrypha,” another note explains, have been appended to various Bibles, on and off, for centuries.

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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:14 pm 
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MAK
When Trobisch says there’s no such thing as “the” Bible, he’s alluding in part to the seven versions displayed along a wall on the museum’s fourth floor: Hebrew, Samaritan, Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Assyrian. Each has its own selection of texts, a sign on the wall observes, “yet each one is a Bible.” In display cases, you can read about the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip, and other texts that haven’t made the cut. But don’t count them out. Such “Apocrypha,” another note explains, have been appended to various Bibles, on and off, for centuries.


What? No JST???

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"The problem is most religions proceed to try and explain the truth and then insist that you agree with their explanation." Brad Warner


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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:29 pm 
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Philo Sofee wrote:
Quote:
MAK
When Trobisch says there’s no such thing as “the” Bible, he’s alluding in part to the seven versions displayed along a wall on the museum’s fourth floor: Hebrew, Samaritan, Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and Assyrian. Each has its own selection of texts, a sign on the wall observes, “yet each one is a Bible.” In display cases, you can read about the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip, and other texts that haven’t made the cut. But don’t count them out. Such “Apocrypha,” another note explains, have been appended to various Bibles, on and off, for centuries.


What? No JST???


I've never quite figured out the status of the JST. Why are the Saints packing around KJVs when the JST is around? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:35 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
richardMdBorn wrote:
My brother is an imaging expert who has worked on the Archimedes Palimpsest and the Dead Sea Scheolls. He did some work for the Museum of the Bible. Next time I see him, I’ll ask him for details about it.


Please do. Thanks.
He worked on imaging a palimpsest that’s in their collection.


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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:25 am 
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Having spent 3 hours in the museum and as a believer one cannot come away without realizing the impact through the centuries the bible made on humankind-from the handwritten and decorated church and aristoracy bibles to anne Boleyn's pocket New Testament psalms, Christian believers say it is the most important text ever to come about-we believe it to be God's word to humans. Especially the New Testament which chronicles the life and works of Jesus makes sense to a believer and its word provides joy, comfort and peace inwardly that no other book or method seems to be able to. Now the likes of Bart Ehrman, once an evangelical now an atheist or agnostic i forget, pooh poohs the bible because he believes he has evidence of text corruption in almost every paragaph like that nutcase john dominic crossin and his Jesus seminar compadres- "nothing correct in the bible ,move along."
clearly the bible as we have it has influenced billions in their walk with God including our jewish brothers and sisters who find tremendous life living guidance , solace and joy in the OT text.

Can 2 billion people be so wrong that they should toss the bible away as just an old book worth nothing- not me it changed my life forever.

kinda preaching

k


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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:09 pm 
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kairos wrote:
Having spent 3 hours in the museum and as a believer one cannot come away without realizing the impact through the centuries the bible made on humankind-from the handwritten and decorated church and aristoracy bibles to anne Boleyn's pocket New Testament psalms, Christian believers say it is the most important text ever to come about-we believe it to be God's word to humans. Especially the New Testament which chronicles the life and works of Jesus makes sense to a believer and its word provides joy, comfort and peace inwardly that no other book or method seems to be able to. Now the likes of Bart Ehrman, once an evangelical now an atheist or agnostic i forget, pooh poohs the bible because he believes he has evidence of text corruption in almost every paragaph like that nutcase john dominic crossin and his Jesus seminar compadres- "nothing correct in the bible ,move along."
clearly the bible as we have it has influenced billions in their walk with God including our jewish brothers and sisters who find tremendous life living guidance , solace and joy in the OT text.

Can 2 billion people be so wrong that they should toss the bible away as just an old book worth nothing- not me it changed my life forever.

kinda preaching

k


Does the museum show that the Bible is used differently by Jews, Christians and Muslims? Did it talk about differing views on the Bible from within Christianity? How the Roman Catholic and Russian Orthodox differ, how the Baptist and the Unitarian view the Bible differently? Perhaps something on the Philadelphia Bible wars in America?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelp ... vist_riots

From the article:

The Philadelphia Nativist Riots (also known as the Philadelphia Prayer Riots, the Bible Riots and the Native American Riots) were a series of riots that took place between May 6 and 8 and July 6 and 7, 1844, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States and the adjacent districts of Kensington and Southwark. The riots were a result of rising anti-Catholic sentiment at the growing population of Irish Catholic immigrants.

In the five months prior to the riots, nativist groups had been spreading a rumor that Catholics were trying to remove the Bible from public schools. A nativist rally in Kensington erupted in violence on May 6 and started a deadly riot that would result in the destruction of two Catholic churches and numerous other buildings. Riots erupted again in July, after it was discovered that St. Philip Neri's Catholic Church in Southwark had armed itself for protection. Fierce fighting broke out between the nativists and the soldiers sent to protect the church, resulting in numerous deaths and injuries. Several Catholic churches were burned.

...........

During the 1840s, students in Philadelphia schools began the day with reading the Protestant version of the Bible. On November 10, 1842, Philadelphia's Roman Catholic Bishop, Francis Kenrick, wrote a letter to the Board of Controllers of public schools, asking that Catholic children be allowed to read the Douay version of the Bible, used by Roman Catholics. He also asked that they be excused from other religious teaching while at school.[4][5] As a result, the Board of Controllers ordered that no child should be forced to participate in religious activities and stated that children were allowed to read whichever version of the Bible their parents wished. Nativists further inflamed hostile feelings towards Catholics by reportedly twisting Kenrick's requests to the Board of Controllers as an attack against the Bible used in Protestant devotionals.[4][6]

...........

Or was a particular type of Bible, interpreted by a particular type of people, in a particular way, mostly presented? :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:17 am 
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Philo Sofee wrote:
What, in all honesty, is the good of a museum of an old book? Just curious. We are no longer in the old Medieval days of thinking, why keep a book going that keeps us there? It makes very little sense.

The Law of Gravity and believing the Earth is round is also a bit dated...

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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:01 pm 
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Philo Sofee wrote:
What, in all honesty, is the good of a museum of an old book? Just curious. We are no longer in the old Medieval days of thinking, why keep a book going that keeps us there? It makes very little sense.

Tell that to those that still promote Darwin --- and most of that is no longer even considered valid!


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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:19 pm 
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LittleNipper wrote:
Philo Sofee wrote:
What, in all honesty, is the good of a museum of an old book? Just curious. We are no longer in the old Medieval days of thinking, why keep a book going that keeps us there? It makes very little sense.

Tell that to those that still promote Darwin --- and most of that is no longer even considered valid!


Sure, Nipper. Show us how "most of that is no longer even considered valid!" And be aware that assertions from Jack Chick, Ken Ham, Kent Hovind or a similar scientifically illiterate dolt will be summarily mocked. :lol:

It's a new year but your pony doesn't know any new tricks, eh? Happy New Year to you anyhow. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Museum of the Bible opening
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:00 pm 
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FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 2007
How Giraffe Got his long Neck

Darwin was the first to propose that long necks evolved in giraffes because they enabled the animals to eat foliage beyond the reach of shorter browsers. That seemingly sensible explanation has held up for over a century, but it is probably wrong, says Robert Simmons. Simmons, a behavioral ecologist at the Ministry of Environment and Tourism in Windhoek, Namibia, believes giraffes developed long necks not to compete for food but to win mates. Simmons was studying eagles in Sabi Sand Reserve in South Africa when he happened to come upon a pair of male giraffes locked in combat. Male giraffes battle for mates by swinging their powerful necks--which can be over six feet long and weigh more than 200 pounds. The momentum generated allows them to slam their heads into their opponents with vertebrae-shattering--and occasionally lethal--force. In these contests, males with the longest, thickest necks usually prevail. As Simmons watched the fight, he became convinced that this competition for mates, not stretching for treetop food, was what drove the evolution of the neck. If competition for food had spurred the elongation, says Simmons, then you would expect giraffes to graze mainly from tall acacia trees beyond the reach of other savanna inhabitants. But giraffes feed mostly with their necks bent, along low bushes. Moreover, their short, stubby horns probably evolved to better concentrate the force of their head blows.


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