Christianity, Mormonism and wealth

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_Maksutov
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Re: Christianity, Mormonism and wealth

Post by _Maksutov »

Joseph was always a prophetpreneur.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Symmachus
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Re: Christianity, Mormonism and wealth

Post by _Symmachus »

Some interesting replies and challenging questions here.

Real quick on what I meant by referencing Kirtland period, Johannes:
1. yes, the bank,
2. but also the appointment of businessmen N. K. Whitney as bishop, and the fact the United Order became the new mechanism of running Whitney's businesses and using his properties (e.g. the temple was built on his land, to take one small example)
3. and also the first attempts at Mormon colonization in Missouri (obviously that's not what the revelations called it, but that is what it was) and the subsequent land acquisition, which of course was the root of the conflicts with the local hillbillies, most of whom were probably quite poor. I always find it a telling fact that the so-called "Mormon War" involved quite a lot of stocking of the bishop's storehouse with goods and property stolen from the non-Mormons.

Obviously some of this was meant to help the poor, or at least that is the language in which the revelations that touched on these economic processes was clothed. But it's not like there was some mass of poor, an independent church, and an untapped fund of wealth that the independent church then doled out through its good offices. The United Order was the theological underpinning to what was essentially a business operation meant at enriching people who were poor, including the Smith family. And its officers (e.g. Whitney) even threatened to expel those who were deemed to dependent on the economic resources of the community. It wasn't charity like the Salvation Army or something.

Later in the Utah period it served a similar kind of function: it wasn't that Brigham Young was trying to plan the economy of Utah as much as to monopolize it for the Church's interests.
"As to any slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about them."

—B. Redd McConkie
_Johannes
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Re: Christianity, Mormonism and wealth

Post by _Johannes »

Symmachus wrote:2. but also the appointment of businessmen N. K. Whitney as bishop, and the fact the United Order became the new mechanism of running Whitney's businesses and using his properties (e.g. the temple was built on his land, to take one small example)


I didn't know that. As for the United Order, the more I learn about it, the less surprising the modern LDS church's business interests appear. Very interesting that Brother Joseph was already appointing businessmen (as well as his own family members) to leadership positions and that church leaders were running what were in effect commercial operations whose profits were at the disposal of the church.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Christianity, Mormonism and wealth

Post by _Kishkumen »

If Uncle Dale were here (and I hope he is out there somewhere doing OK), he might say that Mormonism as a business began with the Gold Bible Company. It is my view that Joseph Smith was always happy to make a buck from what he was doing. But I think he did have an ethic about it that he believed was consistent with Christianity. Look to the example of King Benjamin in the Book of Mormon. He did not believe in being idle; rather he felt it was important that the king should labor with his own hands. Joseph was never really against differences in status and wealth.

Joseph felt that so long as he benefited others it was certainly OK for him to turn a profit through his religious enterprises. Moreover, the Book of Mormon is somewhat complicated on the issue of wealth--at least more so than we might be inclined to think initially. It is certainly true that the peril existed of wealth making people prideful and forgetful of the blessings of God, and of also treating others shamefully, but I don't think that this is the same thing as a blanket condemnation of wealth.

Sidney Rigdon was perhaps the one most responsible for the early Mormon flirtation with Christian communism. He and Isaac Morley had a commune going in Ohio before the lot of them joined Joseph Smith.

I apologize for these scattered thoughts. I think this subject is fascinating. There is no easy answer for what is right in a Mormon context. Views differ. You see interesting contradictions in the lives of people like Mitt Romney. Mitt has more money that one person could ever possibly need, or one family really, but there he is attending to his piles of wealth. At the same time, he strikes me as a decent, if somewhat lopsided and selective in his knowledge and perspective, fellow. He will really go out of his way for the people in his life, if they need his help.

How do we judge Mitt Romney? I believe his wealth is excessive, but I also think he is a decent person who will help out another in a jam. I see him fitting and representing the contradictions of Mormonism quite nicely.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Maxine Waters
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Re: Christianity, Mormonism and wealth

Post by _Maxine Waters »

It comes down to the question, "Did Jesus own the clothes He wore?"

Do people possess the patience to work and wait to achieve better economic conditions or is the only solution to rob because that's what's good for me right now?
“There were mothers who took this [Rodney King LA riots] as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes ... They are not crooks.”

This liberal would be about socializing … uh, umm. … Would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies.
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