Excommunication = Spiritual Death

The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only. Heavily moderated. Rated G.
_AmyJo
_Emeritus
Posts: 1288
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:23 am

Excommunication = Spiritual Death

Post by _AmyJo »

So says Kate Kelly, in a NBC interview regarding the high profile excommunication of James Hamula.

""Excommunication is actually a very violent procedure. Within faith tradition, it's a spiritual death, which to Mormons is worse than a physical death," Kelly said.

"It also means that you don't get to be with your family in the eternity," she said. "They essentially kicked me out of heaven."...

Kelly appealed her excommunication, but was denied and said she would not consider being rebaptized because she could not repent for her beliefs.

"I never consider getting rebaptized because that would mean being part of an institution where I would couldn't tell the truth or be my authentic self," she said."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/religion/ex ... ry-n791351
_tapirrider
_Emeritus
Posts: 893
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:10 am

Re: Excommunication = Spiritual Death

Post by _tapirrider »

It can be devastating to a believer who finds themselves locked out of everything they hold dear.
_Servant
_Emeritus
Posts: 819
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:48 am

Re: Excommunication = Spiritual Death

Post by _Servant »

tapirrider wrote:It can be devastating to a believer who finds themselves locked out of everything they hold dear.

Then maybe the "believer" should wise up and realize that the whole thing is a lie and that they are better off out of the religion of SCAM!
_AmyJo
_Emeritus
Posts: 1288
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:23 am

Re: Excommunication = Spiritual Death

Post by _AmyJo »

Servant wrote:
tapirrider wrote:It can be devastating to a believer who finds themselves locked out of everything they hold dear.

Then maybe the "believer" should wise up and realize that the whole thing is a lie and that they are better off out of the religion of SCAM!

That only happens later, sometimes much later - after the initial shock and disbelief wears off.

Losing the religion one was so ingrained with from birth on is the same as losing a family member - that's how intertwined it is into a member's psyche.

To part ways most ex-Mormons go through the stages of grief of loss. All five of them. It can take weeks, months, or years to work through that. It doesn't happen overnight.
_JLHPROF
_Emeritus
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:44 am

Re: Excommunication = Spiritual Death

Post by _JLHPROF »

AmyJo wrote:So says Kate Kelly, in a NBC interview regarding the high profile excommunication of James Hamula.

""Excommunication is actually a very violent procedure. Within faith tradition, it's a spiritual death, which to Mormons is worse than a physical death," Kelly said.

"It also means that you don't get to be with your family in the eternity," she said. "They essentially kicked me out of heaven."...

Kelly appealed her excommunication, but was denied and said she would not consider being rebaptized because she could not repent for her beliefs.

"I never consider getting rebaptized because that would mean being part of an institution where I would couldn't tell the truth or be my authentic self," she said."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/religion/ex ... ry-n791351


Seems like an accurate description to me.
Is she saying that excommunication isn't warranted for contrary belief?
Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God. - Joseph Smith
_AmyJo
_Emeritus
Posts: 1288
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:23 am

Re: Excommunication = Spiritual Death

Post by _AmyJo »

JLHPROF wrote:
AmyJo wrote:So says Kate Kelly, in a NBC interview regarding the high profile excommunication of James Hamula.

""Excommunication is actually a very violent procedure. Within faith tradition, it's a spiritual death, which to Mormons is worse than a physical death," Kelly said.

"It also means that you don't get to be with your family in the eternity," she said. "They essentially kicked me out of heaven."...

Kelly appealed her excommunication, but was denied and said she would not consider being rebaptized because she could not repent for her beliefs.

"I never consider getting rebaptized because that would mean being part of an institution where I would couldn't tell the truth or be my authentic self," she said."

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/religion/ex ... ry-n791351


Seems like an accurate description to me.
Is she saying that excommunication isn't warranted for contrary belief?


I think she knew she was going to be excommunicated for her contrary beliefs, but chose to go through that to its bitter end.

If it were me, I'd have resigned before reaching that point. In fact I did resign. There is no room in the cult for intellectuals, feminists, or theologians. Its teachings are based on the farcical heretical Joseph Smith religion. Not authentic. Not really relevant for the times we live in. By resigning is choosing not to live in denial pretending things are fine and dandy, when they're anything but.
_Maxine Waters
_Emeritus
Posts: 1085
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:29 am

Re: Excommunication = Spiritual Death

Post by _Maxine Waters »

Was James Hamula president of the D.C. South Mission?

Yes he was. According to Wikipedia. Does anyone know why?
“There were mothers who took this [Rodney King LA riots] as an opportunity to take some milk, to take some bread, to take some shoes ... They are not crooks.”

This liberal would be about socializing … uh, umm. … Would be about, basically, taking over, and the government running all of your companies.
_kairos
_Emeritus
Posts: 1917
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Excommunication = Spiritual Death

Post by _kairos »

Maxine Waters wrote:Was James Hamula president of the D.C. South Mission?

Yes he was. According to Wikipedia. Does anyone know why?

We knew hamula when he was dc south mission prez 94-97- his family was in the burke virginia ward because the mission home is in its boundaries. dc south covers northern virginia south and west to the blue rige mountains. as a nevrermo he was always trying to figure out why i never converted-that's another story. hamula then was only 39 and was a tall smooth talking " i am above the fray superiority complex kinda guy".

never seemed ruffled, did not seem to have a roving eye for other women or men, but his physical appearance was slicked back going gray peppered black hair, $900 suits and matching ties and shined shoes- kinda "gay" look imho . his wife joyce was tall blonde but motherly looking - raising kids- there were a couiple of girls and twin young boys those days as i recall. he seemed all in for the church and was definitely looking to climb the GA ladder.

when the excomm was announced i personal messaged him and he replied confirming his belief and love for the church, the brethern and his family and thanked me for the supporting email.

my best rumor is that while he was area president in the pacific there were some shady land deals in NZ by the church and he was either part of it or uncovered some embarrassing information on apostles or GA's and the die was cast. next best rumor is he got into a sexual situation and was nabbed.

k
_SonOfZeus
_Emeritus
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:05 am

Re: Excommunication = Spiritual Death

Post by _SonOfZeus »

AmyJo wrote:So says Kate Kelly, in a NBC interview regarding the high profile excommunication of James Hamula: "Excommunication is actually a very violent procedure. Within faith tradition, it's a spiritual death, which to Mormons is worse than a physical death," Kelly said. "It also means that you don't get to be with your family in the eternity," she said. "They essentially kicked me out of heaven."... Kelly appealed her excommunication, but was denied and said she would not consider being rebaptized because she could not repent for her beliefs.

I've never understood people like Kate Kelly. She had complete control over the entire situation and could have easily avoided excommunication simply by repentance. Excommunication is a form of spiritual death, and it's supposed to be.

Kelly wants women to have the priesthood. So why did she go public? She was warned and warned again. If she wanted to press the issue, all she had to do was take it up with God. Instead, she wanted to go through the authorities of the Church, and they don't have the authority to give her what she wants, right? They have the keys to bind on Earth and in Heaven, but they have zero authority to grant women the priesthood. Thus, she should have gone to the one person who could have granted it, and that's God.

At some point, they gave her the choice to stay in the church or to leave. It was the same choice our brother Lucifer and his angels were given. They refused and were cast out, and she made the same decision for herself. If only people could understand that all they have to do is act in their own best interest and all would be well.
_AmyJo
_Emeritus
Posts: 1288
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:23 am

Re: Excommunication = Spiritual Death

Post by _AmyJo »

SonOfZeus wrote:
AmyJo wrote:So says Kate Kelly, in a NBC interview regarding the high profile excommunication of James Hamula: "Excommunication is actually a very violent procedure. Within faith tradition, it's a spiritual death, which to Mormons is worse than a physical death," Kelly said. "It also means that you don't get to be with your family in the eternity," she said. "They essentially kicked me out of heaven."... Kelly appealed her excommunication, but was denied and said she would not consider being rebaptized because she could not repent for her beliefs.

I've never understood people like Kate Kelly. She had complete control over the entire situation and could have easily avoided excommunication simply by repentance. Excommunication is a form of spiritual death, and it's supposed to be.

Kelly wants women to have the priesthood. So why did she go public? She was warned and warned again. If she wanted to press the issue, all she had to do was take it up with God. Instead, she wanted to go through the authorities of the Church, and they don't have the authority to give her what she wants, right? They have the keys to bind on Earth and in Heaven, but they have zero authority to grant women the priesthood. Thus, she should have gone to the one person who could have granted it, and that's God.

At some point, they gave her the choice to stay in the church or to leave. It was the same choice our brother Lucifer and his angels were given. They refused and were cast out, and she made the same decision for herself. If only people could understand that all they have to do is act in their own best interest and all would be well.


You're right in a way. If people were like sheep and just went along to get along, all would be well. In Mormonism that means drinking the Kool-Aid without complaining.

In Jonestown it cost everyone their lives drinking the Kool-Aid.

At some point people will either wake up or continue living a lie subject to blind authority.

People like Kate Kelly live on the fence. She was too intelligent not to question the status quo. She wasn't intelligent enough to understand that Mormonism does not have a monopoly on truth or her salvation.
Post Reply