The upper-crust forum for scholarly, polite, and respectful discussions only. Heavily moderated. Rated G.
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That I'm unheard isn't unusual for me, I'm used to it.
Do you define "unheard" as "heard but disagreed with"? Plenty of people "heard" you and addressed your points. You must be getting thread re-write advice from a gymnast.
Philo Sofee wrote:
That almost sounds mental.
good one, Philo.
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DrW wrote:Science has tested the falsifiable truth claims of religion and, in general, falsified these claims.
Not so much disrespect as overwhelming incredulity.
The "apparent" claims are not the real claims.
The early dramas of Greek Mythology were never meant to be considered as actual fact, but to express our hidden feelings.
The dramas of incestuous relationships written by Shakespeare were not to be confused with reality but to warn us against allowing our primitive and infantile emotions to rule us. There are VERY natural desire within us that if allowed out would ruin our civilized world. Yet the suppression of these natural desires causes stress on our psyche, to the point that when some people break......it's pretty ugly.
As humans realized that civilization went against the natural urges of human nature, they had to build in restrictions to certain emotional assests of the people. The intention was to make a happy people, and if people followed the rules they would die happy.
Studies show that the happiest city in America is very religious. People that take life too literally tend to be more stressed. Life is a combination of physical and abstract objects.
Well put, SPG.
The other night I read my kids a story based on a biblical parable - which this reminds me of. The hands, feet, brain, mouth and other body parts were putting down the stomach for not doing anything & just taking all of the food. Then the stomach stopped & it affected all of the other parts. Science worshippers want to pretend that science is the only God, and religion has been nothing but bad. They fail to appreciate the many things religion has contributed. In the US Capitol building in WaDC, Moses is honored as one of the most significant law-makers. Now, “thou shalt not kill, steal, lie etc” are common sense, but not so once upon a time.
And you’re right about religion helping people - as long as it’s not extreme. A study found that religious moderate involvement had positive influence on health. I think it’s both faith/placebo (mind-body) help & a good sense of community which are the best benefits. Science has it's role, as does religion - they're just different tools for different purposes.
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SuperDell wrote:A lot of historians, archaeologists and the like don't believe a lot of what religions claim is fact.
Science does not show disrespect. It looks for verifiable reality. Facts that can be tested to see if they really are facts and if what is claimed is actually reality. Faith is not enough.
I couldn't agree more! Aron Ra
got it right when he said:
Remember also that faith, (an unreasonable assertion of complete conviction which is not based on reason and is defended against all reason) —is the most dishonest position it is possible to have. Any belief which requires faith should be rejected for that reason.
He also said, among many other gems of wisdom:
There are so many people who tell me, “if I had a time machine and could prove that Jesus never rose from the dead”, with the admission that “I hope my faith and I are strong enough that I can keep on believing, even when my eyes tell me otherwise.” That’s make-believe! That’s lying to yourself. That’s the entirety of what religion is.
There are even some theists who have gone so far as to admit that if they found something in the Bible that supported the notion that two plus two equaled 5, they would have to find some way to accept that notion as fact and accommodate themselves to it. The more strongly their convictions are refuted by incontrovertible fact, the more virtuous they feel for maintaining the steadfast "faith" to persist in those convictions.
I fully agree with this quote too:
No matter how positively you think you know it, if you can’t show it, then you don’t know it, and you shouldn’t say that you do.
No precept or claim is more deservedly suspect or more likely to be false than one that can only be supported by invoking the claim of Divine authority for it--no matter who or what claims such authority.
“If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; but if you really make them think, they'll hate you.”
― Harlan Ellison
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