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 Post subject: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 9:58 pm 
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Our Relationship with the Lord

BRUCE R. MCCONKIE

Now, it is no secret that many false and vain and foolish things are being taught in the sectarian world and even among us about our need to gain a special relationship with the Lord Jesus. I shall summarize the true doctrine in this field and invite erring teachers and beguiled students to repent and believe the accepted gospel verities as I shall set them forth.
We worship the Father and him only and no one else. We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense--the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us.
Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.

https://speeches.BYU.edu/talks/bruce...tionship-lord/

https://www.LDS.org/topics/worship?lang=eng

To worship God is to give Him our love, reverence, service, and devotion. The Lord commanded Moses, "Worship God, for him only shalt thou serve" (Moses 1:15). He has also commanded, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy might, mind, and strength; and in the name of Jesus Christ thou shalt serve him" (D&C 59:5). Worship not only shows our love for God and commitment to Him, it gives us strength to keep His commandments. Through worship we grow in knowledge and faithfulness. If we place any person or thing above the love of God, we worship that thing or person. This is called idolatry (see Exodus 20:3–6).

Prayer is one way to worship Heavenly Father. Alma taught his son Helaman, "Cry unto God for all thy support; yea, let all thy doings be unto the Lord, and whithersoever thou goest let it be in the Lord; yea, let all thy thoughts be directed unto the Lord; yea, let the affections of thy heart be placed upon the Lord forever" (Alma 37:36).
Another way to worship Heavenly Father is to join in fellowship with others who worship Him. The Book of Mormon reveals, "The children of God were commanded that they should gather themselves together oft, and join in fasting and mighty prayer in behalf of the welfare of the souls of those who knew not God" (Alma 6:6) In more recent revelation, the Lord commanded: "That thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day; for verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High" (D&C 59:9–10).

Participation in priesthood ordinances is also part of worship. As we reverently partake of the sacrament and attend the temple, we remember and worship our Heavenly Father and express our gratitude for His Son, Jesus Christ.
In addition to worshipping outwardly, we should have a worshipful attitude wherever we go and in everything we do. Alma taught this principle to a group of people who had been kept from entering their place of worship. He helped them see that true worship is not limited to one day of the week (see Alma 32:11). Speaking to the same group of people, Alma's companion Amulek encouraged them to "worship God, in whatsoever place ye may be in, in spirit and in truth" (Alma 34:38).

What's interesting they never cite the passages in the Book of Mormon that commands the Worship of Jesus, nor produce Book of Mormon verses that tell us to worship only The Father. But when does The Book of Mormon ever agree with Mormonism

2 Nephi 11: 24 And after he had said these words, he said unto me: Look! And I looked, and I beheld the Son of God going forth among the children of men; and I saw many fall down at his feet and worship him.


3 Nephi 11:17

3 Nephi 11:

13 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto them saying:

14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.

17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:13 am 
Savior (mortal ministry)

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Part of the problem is there are some LDS, who, though they would never admit it, worship Joseph Smith. There were some some LDS who worshiped Bruce McConkie- they believed he, or at least his books, were without error. I believe that a great number of LDS whorship (oops, Freudian slip :surprised: ) the church.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:13 am 
Savior (mortal ministry)

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Part of the problem is there are some LDS, who, though they would never admit it, worship Joseph Smith. There were some some LDS who worshiped Bruce McConkie- they believed he, or at least his books, were without error. I believe that a great number of LDS whorship (oops, Freudian slip :surprised: ) the church.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 10:59 am 
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deacon blues wrote:
Part of the problem is there are some LDS, who, though they would never admit it, worship Joseph Smith. There were some some LDS who worshiped Bruce McConkie- they believed he, or at least his books, were without error. I believe that a great number of LDS whorship (oops, Freudian slip :surprised: ) the church.


Very true Joseph Smith takes top position even over Jesus.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 12:41 pm 
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Mittens wrote:
deacon blues wrote:
Part of the problem is there are some LDS, who, though they would never admit it, worship Joseph Smith. There were some some LDS who worshiped Bruce McConkie- they believed he, or at least his books, were without error. I believe that a great number of LDS whorship (oops, Freudian slip :surprised: ) the church.


Very true Joseph Smith takes top position even over Jesus.


I have more to boast of than any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I (History of the Church, Vol.6, pp. 408-09).

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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:19 am 
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Mormons, Christians, religious adherents in general, mistakenly worship imaginary gods or leaders. There isn't much proof, if any at all, for a god as religion envisions. Their gods all seem to support the culture where they came from. Joseph Smith's god seems to be an america first guy because Joseph Smith comes from america. Judaism's god calls jews the chosen people. Muhammad says muslims are the ones, etc. I am waiting for a god who calls the enemy the chosen people. If god really wanted peace, maybe he would command christians to start worshiping the muslim leader and muslims to worship a christian leader and for jews to worship a hindu leader and vice versa. I think that would do more to promote peace, that is, if god wanted it, or if there was a god as religion imagines.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:31 am 
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Exiled wrote:
Mormons, Christians, religious adherents in general, mistakenly worship imaginary gods or leaders. There isn't much proof, if any at all, for a god as religion envisions. Their gods all seem to support the culture where they came from. Joseph Smith's god seems to be an america first guy because Joseph Smith comes from america. Judaism's god calls jews the chosen people. Muhammad says muslims are the ones, etc. I am waiting for a god who calls the enemy the chosen people. If god really wanted peace, maybe he would command christians to start worshiping the muslim leader and muslims to worship a christian leader and for jews to worship a hindu leader and vice versa. I think that would do more to promote peace, that is, if god wanted it, or if there was a god as religion imagines.


It seems to me that Gods are like extending the primate hierarchy of the tribe--the monkey tree--into the invisible (the heavens) and back into the past (myths). The tall tales about heroes and villains become more sophisticated and have theological pretensions over time when they gain cultural heft and through improvisation by the generations. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:40 am 
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Maksutov wrote:
Exiled wrote:
Mormons, Christians, religious adherents in general, mistakenly worship imaginary gods or leaders. There isn't much proof, if any at all, for a god as religion envisions. Their gods all seem to support the culture where they came from. Joseph Smith's god seems to be an america first guy because Joseph Smith comes from america. Judaism's god calls jews the chosen people. Muhammad says muslims are the ones, etc. I am waiting for a god who calls the enemy the chosen people. If god really wanted peace, maybe he would command christians to start worshiping the muslim leader and muslims to worship a christian leader and for jews to worship a hindu leader and vice versa. I think that would do more to promote peace, that is, if god wanted it, or if there was a god as religion imagines.


It seems to me that Gods are like extending the primate hierarchy of the tribe--the monkey tree--into the invisible (the heavens) and back into the past (myths). The tall tales about heroes and villains become more sophisticated and have theological pretensions over time when they gain cultural heft and through improvisation by the generations. :wink:


I remember learning about these concepts for the first time back in junior high. It seemed to make sense back then, that religion is an extension of the primate tribe, but my young TBM mind couldn't quite grasp that reality. I was more interested in whether or not I could see an angel or god and Jesus, like Joseph Smith claimed, and I was sure all the apostles spoke with Jesus at least monthly. Star wars was really cool and the force was close to how the priesthood should be.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:51 pm 
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On this point, Elder McConkie was wrong. Jesus never once rebuked those who feel at his feet to worship him.

For example:

Quote:
And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter.

(Rev. 1:17-20)

But then later we see an angel rebuke John:

Quote:
And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

(Rev. 22:8-9)

This angel, though he spoke for Jesus, made a distinction the first personage didn't. And he specifically commanded John: “Worship God!" Even as Moroni was a fellow prophet to Joseph Smith, so this angel had once been a prophet in mortality and was a fellow-servant to John. But though he spoke for Jesus, he did not suffer that John should worship him.

Often because of the way he said things, people were afraid to contradict Elder McConkie, but this time he was wrong. When Jesus introduced himself to the Nephites, he told them he was the “God of Israel." And the angel told John, “Worship God!"

Thus, Elder McConkie was mistaken.

..


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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:19 pm 
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Mittens wrote:
Our Relationship with the Lord

BRUCE R. MCCONKIE

Now, it is no secret that many false and vain and foolish things are being taught in the sectarian world and even among us about our need to gain a special relationship with the Lord Jesus. I shall summarize the true doctrine in this field and invite erring teachers and beguiled students to repent and believe the accepted gospel verities as I shall set them forth.
We worship the Father and him only and no one else. We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense--the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us.
Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.

https://speeches.BYU.edu/talks/bruce...tionship-lord/

https://www.LDS.org/topics/worship?lang=eng

To worship God is to give Him our love, reverence, service, and devotion. The Lord commanded Moses, "Worship God, for him only shalt thou serve" (Moses 1:15). He has also commanded, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy might, mind, and strength; and in the name of Jesus Christ thou shalt serve him" (D&C 59:5). Worship not only shows our love for God and commitment to Him, it gives us strength to keep His commandments. Through worship we grow in knowledge and faithfulness. If we place any person or thing above the love of God, we worship that thing or person. This is called idolatry (see Exodus 20:3–6).

Prayer is one way to worship Heavenly Father. Alma taught his son Helaman, "Cry unto God for all thy support; yea, let all thy doings be unto the Lord, and whithersoever thou goest let it be in the Lord; yea, let all thy thoughts be directed unto the Lord; yea, let the affections of thy heart be placed upon the Lord forever" (Alma 37:36).
Another way to worship Heavenly Father is to join in fellowship with others who worship Him. The Book of Mormon reveals, "The children of God were commanded that they should gather themselves together oft, and join in fasting and mighty prayer in behalf of the welfare of the souls of those who knew not God" (Alma 6:6) In more recent revelation, the Lord commanded: "That thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day; for verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High" (D&C 59:9–10).

Participation in priesthood ordinances is also part of worship. As we reverently partake of the sacrament and attend the temple, we remember and worship our Heavenly Father and express our gratitude for His Son, Jesus Christ.
In addition to worshipping outwardly, we should have a worshipful attitude wherever we go and in everything we do. Alma taught this principle to a group of people who had been kept from entering their place of worship. He helped them see that true worship is not limited to one day of the week (see Alma 32:11). Speaking to the same group of people, Alma's companion Amulek encouraged them to "worship God, in whatsoever place ye may be in, in spirit and in truth" (Alma 34:38).

What's interesting they never cite the passages in the Book of Mormon that commands the Worship of Jesus, nor produce Book of Mormon verses that tell us to worship only The Father. But when does The Book of Mormon ever agree with Mormonism

2 Nephi 11: 24 And after he had said these words, he said unto me: Look! And I looked, and I beheld the Son of God going forth among the children of men; and I saw many fall down at his feet and worship him.


3 Nephi 11:17

3 Nephi 11:

13 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto them saying:

14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.

17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.


Mittens, over the years I've kind of learned to just ignore Bruce R. McConkie.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:25 am 
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Wonhyo wrote:
Mittens, over the years I've kind of learned to just ignore Bruce R. McConkie.

Indeed, he has gone the way of most past leaders--their teachings must go down the memory hole if they do not match current teachings.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:30 am 
God

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Wonhyo wrote:
Mittens wrote:
Our Relationship with the Lord

BRUCE R. MCCONKIE

Now, it is no secret that many false and vain and foolish things are being taught in the sectarian world and even among us about our need to gain a special relationship with the Lord Jesus. I shall summarize the true doctrine in this field and invite erring teachers and beguiled students to repent and believe the accepted gospel verities as I shall set them forth.
We worship the Father and him only and no one else. We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense--the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us.
Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.

https://speeches.BYU.edu/talks/bruce...tionship-lord/

https://www.LDS.org/topics/worship?lang=eng

To worship God is to give Him our love, reverence, service, and devotion. The Lord commanded Moses, "Worship God, for him only shalt thou serve" (Moses 1:15). He has also commanded, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy might, mind, and strength; and in the name of Jesus Christ thou shalt serve him" (D&C 59:5). Worship not only shows our love for God and commitment to Him, it gives us strength to keep His commandments. Through worship we grow in knowledge and faithfulness. If we place any person or thing above the love of God, we worship that thing or person. This is called idolatry (see Exodus 20:3–6).

Prayer is one way to worship Heavenly Father. Alma taught his son Helaman, "Cry unto God for all thy support; yea, let all thy doings be unto the Lord, and whithersoever thou goest let it be in the Lord; yea, let all thy thoughts be directed unto the Lord; yea, let the affections of thy heart be placed upon the Lord forever" (Alma 37:36).
Another way to worship Heavenly Father is to join in fellowship with others who worship Him. The Book of Mormon reveals, "The children of God were commanded that they should gather themselves together oft, and join in fasting and mighty prayer in behalf of the welfare of the souls of those who knew not God" (Alma 6:6) In more recent revelation, the Lord commanded: "That thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day; for verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High" (D&C 59:9–10).

Participation in priesthood ordinances is also part of worship. As we reverently partake of the sacrament and attend the temple, we remember and worship our Heavenly Father and express our gratitude for His Son, Jesus Christ.
In addition to worshipping outwardly, we should have a worshipful attitude wherever we go and in everything we do. Alma taught this principle to a group of people who had been kept from entering their place of worship. He helped them see that true worship is not limited to one day of the week (see Alma 32:11). Speaking to the same group of people, Alma's companion Amulek encouraged them to "worship God, in whatsoever place ye may be in, in spirit and in truth" (Alma 34:38).

What's interesting they never cite the passages in the Book of Mormon that commands the Worship of Jesus, nor produce Book of Mormon verses that tell us to worship only The Father. But when does The Book of Mormon ever agree with Mormonism

2 Nephi 11: 24 And after he had said these words, he said unto me: Look! And I looked, and I beheld the Son of God going forth among the children of men; and I saw many fall down at his feet and worship him.


3 Nephi 11:17

3 Nephi 11:

13 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto them saying:

14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.

17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.


Mittens, over the years I've kind of learned to just ignore Bruce R. McConkie.


Why would a true blue Mormon ignore a former Apostle married to the Prophets daughter :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:04 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:16 am 
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Joseph Smith: Many men say there is one God; the Father, the

son and the Holy Ghost are only one God! I say this is a strange God

anyhow—three in one, and one in three! It is a curious organization. . . . All

are to be crammed into one God, according to sectarianism. It would make the

biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a

giant or a monster.“

(History of the Church * Volume 6 Page 476 * 1844


Notice how Joseph Smith said the ONE GOD is False yet his pre-1835 published books teach just the opposite



2 Nephi 31:

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.



Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.





Mormon 7:

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.



The Testimony of Three Witnesses

And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris



1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.


Notice how he says there 3 gods




"I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods," (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370)

The Godhead consists of the three distinct personages and three gods.. The Father Son and Holy Spirit. The Father and Son have bodies of flesh and bones, while the Holy Spirit is a personage of spirit. Robert Millet A Different Jesus page 198

The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. "That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man," (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

Bruce McConkie states: "There are three Gods...separate in personality, united in purpose, in plan, and in all attributes of perfection" (Mormon Doctrine, p.270).



"God himself was

once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder

heavens. That is the great secret... …I am going to tell you how God came to be

God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will

refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. … It is the

first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and

to know...that he was once a man like us.... Here, then, is eternal life - to

know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods

yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done

before you... (“King Follett Discourse,” Journal of Discourses 6:3-4, also in

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-346, and History of the Church, vol.

6, 305-307,)"


Notice how the Book of Mormon teaches the opposite, that God is not an exalted man and is God from eternity



Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.



Mosiah 3:5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.



2 Nephi 26:12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;


https://i.imgur.com/oc5WXx6.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:12 pm 
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Chuck Finley wrote:
Wonhyo wrote:
Mittens, over the years I've kind of learned to just ignore Bruce R. McConkie.

Indeed, he has gone the way of most past leaders--their teachings must go down the memory hole if they do not match current teachings.


A lot of LDS of my generation (baby boomer), including the leaders, have a slower learning curve Chuck. :rolleyes:


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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:58 pm 
Prophet
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It seems that most orthodox Christians are also confused. Jesus, when referred to as GOoD (maybe more like God in Hebrew), he said, “Why callest thou me good? None is good, save one, that is God.”

Who isn’t confused as to what to worship? Paul Tillech defined God not in the sense of what someone CLAIMS to worship, but rather what they worship or prioritize in every-day practice - what is their “ultimate concern.”

So, what is your ultimate concern?


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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:02 am 
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Amore wrote:
It seems that most orthodox Christians are also confused. Jesus, when referred to as GOoD (maybe more like God in Hebrew), he said, “Why callest thou me good? None is good, save one, that is God.”

Who isn’t confused as to what to worship? Paul Tillech defined God not in the sense of what someone CLAIMS to worship, but rather what they worship or prioritize in every-day practice - what is their “ultimate concern.”

So, what is your ultimate concern?


Since Jesus was good he apparently is GOD

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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:41 am 
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deacon blues wrote:
A lot of LDS of my generation (baby boomer), including the leaders, have a slower learning curve Chuck. :rolleyes:

Perhaps I am being dense but I don’t understand your remark.

Incidentally, if I have caused offense please know that was not my intent. Unless I have offended Mormonism for its blatant dismissalof key teachings from past leaders; I have no problem causing such offense, and for that I make no apologies.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:19 am 
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Chuck Finley wrote:
... key teachings ...

do you refer to doctrine ?

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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:32 pm 
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Mittens wrote:
Amore wrote:
It seems that most orthodox Christians are also confused. Jesus, when referred to as GOoD (maybe more like God in Hebrew), he said, “Why callest thou me good? None is good, save one, that is God.”

Who isn’t confused as to what to worship? Paul Tillech defined God not in the sense of what someone CLAIMS to worship, but rather what they worship or prioritize in every-day practice - what is their “ultimate concern.”

So, what is your ultimate concern?

Since Jesus was good he apparently is GOD

He said “None is GOoD save one, that is God.” Anyway, you may take interest...

I see good that comes from Christianity even though it's been warped. Maybe, as in all parables and spiritual stories, the story of Jesus, can be taken on different levels. IE:

0. (This mostly applies to us LDS)... No real attention to Jesus, because the focus is more on the church.

1. "Jesus is Savior, next to (or actually to some) God. He died for me (human sacrifice) and paid for my sins (scapegoat). For some, there is overwhelming shame with past mistakes. Mostly, it's my own cognitive distortions (like polarized thinking) that causes me to punitively fear considering my mistakes - so there may be a lot of denial. This idea of Jesus may serve to help me up until I can handle more."

2. "Jesus did suffer for me, so I owe him something. I'm going to be as good as I can be. Deep down, I'm beginning to sense that the idea of human sacrifice scapegoating is wrong, but everyone around me tells me it's right and it's much easier to believe (especially when I'm told if I don't I'll go to hell) than to question."

3. "Rejecting it all. No, Jesus did not die for me, nor pay for my sins because human sacrifice scapegoating is illogical and immoral. I'm wondering what is of God. Who is God? What's the spiritual map - is there one? What do I do with the paradox of accepting my life-time human-nature of being flawed, while striving to do better? What's the meaning of this all? If I was mistaken about Jesus, what else am I mistaken about? What can I know - and what is worth knowing?"

4. Coming back to reconsider Christianity without the dogma... God loves me as evident by my beating heart. I don't need to imagine human sacrifice to appreciate my many saviors who have helped and loved me. I don't need scapegoating; instead, I'm taking response-ability and make at-one what I've screwed up to my best ability and then forgive myself and others for human weakness. Considering that maybe, Jesus's life was a map to help guide us to be Christ-like. Seeing myself as I see the series of parables that represent Jesus... "likening" it all to me/us. Let's see, what did Jesus do that was noted that I may do to become more Christ-like?

*Physically and spiritual born (rich symbolism in the parable of Jesus's birth!)
*Honored his parents, while honoring God.
*Fasted and did some soul-searching, which involved confronting Satan (his own evil potentials), to realize better ambitions.
*Asked for help - sought friends to help and by which to be helped
*Loved each person who came his way. His ability to love was miraculous - he seemed to have psychic abilities to know and understand how best to love each person.
*Continued to do deep soul-searching - taking responsibility for his inheritance of some negative energy - from generations of wrong thought, feeling and action. Asked for spiritual help and received it.
*Stood up for what he had learned. Some say Jesus was the arch-type of Free Speech. He was kind and loving at times, but he also showed love by striving for what's best in others in pointing out what they were trying to deny, making him unashamedly politically incorrect.
*Forgave even the worst offenses because after all his soul searching he understood, "they know not what they do."
*Overcame the world - in body and spirit! Considering that the US's #1 cause of death is heart disease, a good start is working toward having our spirit rule over our body rather than visa versa. And I also think that we need to learn to address truth - including pain - so that God can make weak things strong. "Positive Disintegration" is a huge part of this spiritual process but "few there be find it."

This is a bit like Fowler's stages of Faith, except more specific to Christianity. http://www.psychologycharts.com/james-f ... faith.html


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 Post subject: Re: Mormons seem confused who to WORSHIP
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:52 pm 
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I always felt like we should be worshiping BOTH Christ and Elohim.

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