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 Post subject: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:27 am 
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You mentioned that Navajos are in your Stake. Where do they fit in your Book of Mormon geography model?


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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:08 am 
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tapirrider wrote:
You mentioned that Navajos are in your Stake. Where do they fit in your Book of Mormon geography model?

in the erratum

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An erratum or corrigendum (plurals: errata, corrigenda) (comes from Latin: errata corrige) is a correction of a published text. An erratum is most commonly issued shortly after its original text is published. Patches to security issues in a computer program are also sometimes called errata. As a general rule, publishers issue an erratum for a production error (i.e., an error introduced during the publishing process) and a corrigendum for an author's error.

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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:56 am 
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The Nephites were all killed off in about 400 CE. I view the distinction between Nephites and Lamanites as a religiopolitical one.


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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:27 pm 
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The CCC wrote:
The Nephites were all killed off in about 400 CE. I view the distinction between Nephites and Lamanites as a religiopolitical one.


Interesting. What is your take on D&C 3:17?

What are you thoughts on B. H. Roberts take on it?
https://books.google.com/books?id=mWekB ... &q&f=false


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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:59 pm 
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Not sure how the loss of the first 116 pages of the Book of Mormon relates to the destruction of the Nephites in 5th Century CE.


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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:48 pm 
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Seems plain enough what his point is CCC. The "scripture" defines Nephite and Lamanite identity as genetic, not just "religiopolitical."

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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:50 pm 
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They are Lamanites. We know this from SouthWest Indian Mission in the 1960's.
The Brethren would not lie to us, would they?

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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:24 pm 
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The CCC wrote:
Not sure how the loss of the first 116 pages of the Book of Mormon relates to the destruction of the Nephites in 5th Century CE.


The revelation in section 3 tells Joseph that depite the loss of the pages, the Lord's work would continue so that his people including the Nephites would have knowledge of the Savior. So in 1828, Nephites apparently still lived.

D&C 3:17 is discussed in this LDS Institute curriculum manual:

"Are There Nephites, Jacobites, Josephites, and Zoramites in the land of America Today, or Are There Only Lamanites?"

"It is commonly believed that there are no more Nephites because that nation was completely destroyed by the Lamanites about A.D. 400. However, Nephites dissented to the Lamanites repeatedly before the appearance of Christ. In Captain Moroni’s time, the descendants of these dissenters were almost as numerous as the Nephites (see Alma 43:13–14). When the Savior visited the people of the Book of Mormon, all were united as children of Christ, and there were no Nephites or Lamanites (see 4 Nephi 1:17). When they grew wicked again, they divided into groups called Lamanites and Nephites, only this time the division was not according to descent but according to righteousness—the Nephites were those who wanted to live the commandments of God, and the Lamanites were those who did not (see 4 Nephi 1:38). Other Nephites joined the Lamanites during the last great battle (see Mormon 6:15). Doctrine and Covenants 3:16–18 shows that descendants of Nephi, Jacob, Joseph, and Zoram can be found among Native Americans today."

The LDS apostles used to discuss this in General Conference.

"The word, "Lamanites," denotes, of course, the descendants of rebellious Laman and Lemuel. It also denotes all other descendants of Lehi who defected to them. As used in our text, I think it includes all descendants of Book of Mormon peoples frequently referred to as the remnant of the people of Lehi. The Lord identifies them in the Doctrine and Covenants as ". . . the Nephites . . . Jacobites . . . Josephites . . . Zoramites . . ."

". . . Lamanites . . . Lemuelites, and . . . Ishmaelites" (D&C 3:17-18). "The great day of the Lord" will, of course, be the day when the Savior comes in his power and glory to inaugurate a reign of righteousness and peace."
http://scriptures.BYU.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1266

I'm really more interested in bomgeography's ideas of where the Navajo came from. What ties does he think they have with the people of the Hopewell moundbuilders.


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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:26 am 
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bofmgeography, care to explain how the Navajo fit in your geography model?


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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:02 pm 
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George P. Lee:

I am proud to declare to you today, brothers and sisters, that I am a descendant of Lehi, Nephi, and all the great Book of Mormon prophets. I am proud to be a child of the Book of Mormon people. I have found my true heritage; I have found my true identity. I am a son of God, a child of God, a child of the Book of Mormon, a child of Lehi, a rich heritage that extends all the way back to my Heavenly Father, through Moses, and Abraham, and other great prophets.

I am also proud to be a descendant of great Indian chiefs of our country. I am proud to be a descendant of Red Cloud, Sitting Bull, Chief Joseph, Chee Dodge, Chief Crazy Horse and all these great Indian chiefs that did so well as leaders of their people. I want you to know that these men were great. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are all in paradise; and I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them are converted, and maybe some of them are on the fourth missionary discussion. I am proud of my rich heritage.

To you my people, the Lamanite people, on Indian reservations and in the cities of our country and through the islands of the sea, I want you to know that Jesus Christ is our Elder Brother. He is our Savior. He is our Redeemer.

We have a choice heritage. I want you to know, you Lamanite people, that Heavenly Father loves you.

https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng

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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:36 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
George P. Lee:

I am proud to declare to you today, brothers and sisters, that I am a descendant of Lehi, Nephi, and all the great Book of Mormon prophets. I am proud to be a child of the Book of Mormon people. I have found my true heritage; I have found my true identity. I am a son of God, a child of God, a child of the Book of Mormon, a child of Lehi, a rich heritage that extends all the way back to my Heavenly Father, through Moses, and Abraham, and other great prophets.

I am also proud to be a descendant of great Indian chiefs of our country. I am proud to be a descendant of Red Cloud, Sitting Bull, Chief Joseph, Chee Dodge, Chief Crazy Horse and all these great Indian chiefs that did so well as leaders of their people. I want you to know that these men were great. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are all in paradise; and I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them are converted, and maybe some of them are on the fourth missionary discussion. I am proud of my rich heritage.

To you my people, the Lamanite people, on Indian reservations and in the cities of our country and through the islands of the sea, I want you to know that Jesus Christ is our Elder Brother. He is our Savior. He is our Redeemer.

We have a choice heritage. I want you to know, you Lamanite people, that Heavenly Father loves you.

https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng


Thanks Maksutov. There is only one American Indian general authority at this time, Elder Larry Echo Hawk. He isn't Navajo but he also believes that the Book of Mormon is about his ancestors.
https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... -of-israel

So bofmgeography, in addition to the Navajo, where do the Pawnee fit in your geography? Is a standing LDS general authority who happens to be an enrolled tribal member of the Pawnee nation really from Book of Mormon people, or is he as mistaken about his own identify as Elders Hinckley and Uchtdorf were according to you about the Mayan?


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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:36 am 
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tapirrider wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
George P. Lee:

I am proud to declare to you today, brothers and sisters, that I am a descendant of Lehi, Nephi, and all the great Book of Mormon prophets. I am proud to be a child of the Book of Mormon people. I have found my true heritage; I have found my true identity. I am a son of God, a child of God, a child of the Book of Mormon, a child of Lehi, a rich heritage that extends all the way back to my Heavenly Father, through Moses, and Abraham, and other great prophets.

I am also proud to be a descendant of great Indian chiefs of our country. I am proud to be a descendant of Red Cloud, Sitting Bull, Chief Joseph, Chee Dodge, Chief Crazy Horse and all these great Indian chiefs that did so well as leaders of their people. I want you to know that these men were great. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are all in paradise; and I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them are converted, and maybe some of them are on the fourth missionary discussion. I am proud of my rich heritage.

To you my people, the Lamanite people, on Indian reservations and in the cities of our country and through the islands of the sea, I want you to know that Jesus Christ is our Elder Brother. He is our Savior. He is our Redeemer.

We have a choice heritage. I want you to know, you Lamanite people, that Heavenly Father loves you.

https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng


Thanks Maksutov. There is only one American Indian general authority at this time, Elder Larry Echo Hawk. He isn't Navajo but he also believes that the Book of Mormon is about his ancestors.
https://www.LDS.org/general-conference/ ... -of-israel

So bofmgeography, in addition to the Navajo, where do the Pawnee fit in your geography? Is a standing LDS general authority who happens to be an enrolled tribal member of the Pawnee nation really from Book of Mormon people, or is he as mistaken about his own identify as Elders Hinckley and Uchtdorf were according to you about the Mayan?


Nothing from McKane, eh? Maybe he's still consulting his little racist pseuoscientist friends or trying to get his dowsing rods to work. It could be a while. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:31 am 
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spotlight wrote:
Seems plain enough what his point is CCC. The "scripture" defines Nephite and Lamanite identity as genetic, not just "religiopolitical."


The notion of genetics is achronistic to the text.


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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:20 am 
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ClarkGoble wrote:
spotlight wrote:
Seems plain enough what his point is CCC. The "scripture" defines Nephite and Lamanite identity as genetic, not just "religiopolitical."


The notion of genetics is achronistic to the text.


Joseph Smith's own words of what Moroni allegedly told him leaves no room for religiopolitical.
he told me of a sacred record which was written on plates of gold, I saw in the vision the place where they were deposited, he said the indians, were the literal descendants of Abraham
http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper- ... 35-1836/25


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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:39 pm 
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tapirrider wrote:
ClarkGoble wrote:
The notion of genetics is achronistic to the text.


Joseph Smith's own words of what Moroni allegedly told him leaves no room for religiopolitical.
he told me of a sacred record which was written on plates of gold, I saw in the vision the place where they were deposited, he said the indians, were the literal descendants of Abraham
http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper- ... 35-1836/25


Everything about the Book of Mormon and what Joseph was claiming as revelations from God fit young earth creationism and global flood. It's why the Book of Mormon tells us the land of promise was devoid of humans so Lehi could have an inheritance and spread his seed, and why the Book of Mormon never actually brings up any other groups that didn't arrive from the old world. The Book of Mormon references Noah's flood as global, and the Book of Mormon interesting answers question popular in Joseph's day about how the Americas were populated after Noah's global flood event. One of the popular ideas was migrations from lost tribes of Israel. Hmm Really?

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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:51 am 
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ClarkGoble wrote:
The notion of genetics is achronistic to the text.

In the sense that fact checking of this nature is totally unnecessary for an allegorical work?

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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:08 am 
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The Navajo do have the Middle East haplo group x DNA gene. Navajo do fit in but I do not know how exactly. It's most likely through Nephite trading outpost and expansion. It's a known fact Hopewell trade extended thousands of miles to the Rocky Mountains see x distribution map.

Haplo group x largest concentrations are in Israel Druze and Native Americans i.e. Not in Asia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_X_(mtDNA)#/media/File%3AHaplogroup_X_(mtDNA).PNG

Native Americans, haplogroup X appears to be essentially restricted to northern Amerindian groups, including the Ojibwa, the Nuu-Chah-Nulth, the Sioux, and the Yakima, although we also observed this haplogroup in the Na-Dene–speaking Navajo.


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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:52 am 
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bomgeography wrote:
The Navajo do have the Middle East haplo group x DNA gene. Navajo do fit in but I do not know how exactly. It's most likely through Nephite trading outpost and expansion. It's a known fact Hopewell trade extended thousands of miles to the Rocky Mountains see x distribution map.

Haplo group x largest concentrations are in Israel Druze and Native Americans i.e. Not in Asia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_X_(mtDNA)#/media/File%3AHaplogroup_X_(mtDNA).PNG

Native Americans, haplogroup X appears to be essentially restricted to northern Amerindian groups, including the Ojibwa, the Nuu-Chah-Nulth, the Sioux, and the Yakima, although we also observed this haplogroup in the Na-Dene–speaking Navajo.


Navajo were not residing in the American Southwest during Book of Mormon times.

"Archaeological and historical evidence suggests the Athabaskan ancestors of the Navajos and Apaches entered the Southwest around 1400 CE.[7][8] The Navajo oral tradition is said to retain references of this migration."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo

This map shows their language distribution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabaska ... _langs.png

They came from the arctic.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:07 am 
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bomgeography wrote:
The Navajo do have the Middle East haplo group x DNA gene. Navajo do fit in but I do not know how exactly. It's most likely through Nephite trading outpost and expansion. It's a known fact Hopewell trade extended thousands of miles to the Rocky Mountains see x distribution map.

Haplo group x largest concentrations are in Israel Druze and Native Americans i.e. Not in Asia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_X_(mtDNA)#/media/File%3AHaplogroup_X_(mtDNA).PNG

Native Americans, haplogroup X appears to be essentially restricted to northern Amerindian groups, including the Ojibwa, the Nuu-Chah-Nulth, the Sioux, and the Yakima, although we also observed this haplogroup in the Na-Dene–speaking Navajo.


We have already established haplogroup x is much too old to be from a group of people migrating from the middle east 3000 years ago. It belongs to people who lived here thousands of years before even Book of Mormon claims about Jaredites arriving.

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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Haplo group x which Navajo do have a small percentage of is from the Middle East not the Arctic.

DNA has already established that haplo group x came from the Middle East not Central Asia arctic or Siberia. So unless you believe they took an airplane to North America that is one option the other option is haplo group x sailed to North America as described in the Book of Mormon and the theory and dating that it is older than the Book of Mormon is wrong. Have a nice day.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_X_(mtDNA)


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 Post subject: Re: bofmgeography, are Navajos Nephites?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:22 pm 
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bomgeography wrote:
Haplo group x which Navajo do have a small percentage of is from the Middle East not the Arctic.

DNA has already established that haplo group x came from the Middle East not Central Asia arctic or Siberia. So unless you believe they took an airplane to North America that is one option the other option is haplo group x sailed to North America as described in the Book of Mormon and the theory and dating that it is older than the Book of Mormon is wrong. Have a nice day.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_X_(mtDNA)

Your link refutes every single statement you have made.

Your statement that facts are not facts when they disagree with fiction is refuted world-wide.


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