Long lives of the antedeluvian patriarchs

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_Fence Sitter
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Re: Long lives of the antedeluvian patriarchs

Post by _Fence Sitter »

bomgeography wrote:From my experience and the experience of millions of others the spirit testifying of the Book of Mormon is an external agent.

I will not say that people can not be deceived by other external agents or their own desire and emotions but when realized those mistakes can be corrected.



Given that there are more "Mormons" who do not practice their faith than are active, the spirit testifying about the Book of Mormon is a failure even for those who have been exposed to it. More are abandoning it after having had such an experience than remain. This claim of "millions of others who agree with me" is never followed by the other side of the coin which is; billions of others do not. It is sort of like the people who stuck with Maddoff even after it was revealed he was a fraud. "Hey look there are more people like me who still believe in him, so he must be legit, right?"

Given that the number of people who convert after having been contacted by members or missionaries is a very small percentage of the overall number, again the spirit testifying of the Book of Mormon is a failure.

And given that after over 180 years of being in existence only about 0.005% of the current world population would claim it to be the word of God, the method of depending on the spirit to testify of its truth is an abject failure. In fact "the spirit" is obviously working better for other religions like The Adventist and Muslim.

What kind of loving God designs a religion that only directly affects .005% of his children? And of those only a small percentage even get to his highest degree of glory. It's a man made system designed to fool people into believing that God thinks they are somehow more special than billions of others. So far it's success rate is only about .005%. Dismal.

Cue the "Many are called but few are chosen" or the "wheat being separated from the tares", "enduring to the end" and so on defenses.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_ClarkGoble
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Re: Long lives of the antedeluvian patriarchs

Post by _ClarkGoble »

spotlight wrote:The point about Paul H Dunn was that when I listened to his lies, that was the time in my life when "the spirit was so thick you could cut it with a knife." In other words the so called witness of the spirit is something we invent ourselves and is not due to an external agent.


Well obviously I disagree it's just a psychologically generated phenomena but I think we understand each other's positions fairly well. Also while Dunn lied and exaggerated about some things it's not like every talk was a lie.

How about a computer to guide a spaceship to the moon that is not determinant? Or a financial budget that is not determinant? Or a spousal relationship based upon agreements that are not determinant? I'm sure there are things in life that are not determinant that are desirable like the behavior of a pet dog but I would not want to base the direction of my life upon them.


Let me introduce you to the majority of descriptions and explanations in the popular press.
_Themis
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Re: Long lives of the antedeluvian patriarchs

Post by _Themis »

ClarkGoble wrote:Well obviously I disagree it's just a psychologically generated phenomena but I think we understand each other's positions fairly well. Also while Dunn lied and exaggerated about some things it's not like every talk was a lie.


Whats the difference between those who no longer consider their spiritual experiences from God and those who do? Can the brain not create any type of experience? I also wouldn't limit the experience to internal generation since it can be more complex then that. The natural environment can play a role with added bias and incorrect interpretations of what one thinks they are experiencing. It's just too subjective and prone to bias to reasonably believe one is communicating with an unseen being.
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