Being a God, per core LDS teachings

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_bomgeography
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Re: Being a God, per core LDS teachings

Post by _bomgeography »

huckelberry wrote:The understanding referred to with the word Trinity was developed by the Church leaders to whom the Holy Spirity was promised to enable them to clarify understanding. It was their job to take what was in the Bible , study it and see what was implied.

The Bible does not use the word nor specify the concept of the Trinity. It was developed by the church with reflection on the Bible. It would be possible to historically think about this by saying that the strongest thinkers involved with the question in the first centuries of the Christian faith came to believe that the Trinity was the best understanding of the process of atonement and found that understanding implied in partial form in the scriptures.

My experience in speaking with Mormons about the Trinity is that it is like explaining the concept of north east south and west to the family cat. It is not that a cat cannot find its way around. It just does not think in the categories north south etc.


I understand how the trinity belief came about through the nicene creed. At this point it's just a difference of beliefs one being the nicene creed and the other three distinct beings two with perfect immortal bodies the the third being spirit only.
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Re: Being a God, per core LDS teachings

Post by _huckelberry »

bomgeography wrote:
I understand how the trinity belief came about through the nicene creed. At this point it's just a difference of beliefs one being the nicene creed and the other three distinct beings two with perfect immortal bodies the the third being spirit only.


It seems an odd thing to say that the trinity belief came about through the Nicene creed. Review of church history I have read has seen that creed as the end product of 250 years of consideration of the problem. It is true that it adopted wording which in a couple of places was new. It is true that there were some differences of understanding both before and after the creed was approved.

Bomgeography, what is the source of the divine power and authority those three personages have? Is it one or do they each have their own separate source of power? Is their power something they have in their own being or is it something they lack but can access?

The idea of the trinity developed with people trying to understand how it is that Jesus death could be atonement for the rest of us. It is the problem presented by a common atheist complaint. The Christian belief makes it sound like God is like a father who had two sons one which drove the family car recklessly and smashed it into a tree. The father says that was bad I am going to take your brother and give him a terrible beating, then I can forgive you. But does this story make any sense? Most people sense it is a tangled mess.

From the earliest formation of Christian thought over this problem found in the writing of Paul and on, it is Jesus's special identity as both truly God and truly human which presents a more workable view of the atonement. God shares his life with humans through Jesus. On the cross it is God the agreeved who suffers not just some innocent person. I am not sure that the nicene trinity is the only possible result of these considerations but it directly was the result of thought about this problem. I think any alternative view must be considered in terms of how well it answers the question of what is happening on the cross and how does that present hope to us.
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Re: Being a God, per core LDS teachings

Post by _bomgeography »

huckelberry wrote:
bomgeography wrote:
I understand how the trinity belief came about through the nicene creed. At this point it's just a difference of beliefs one being the nicene creed and the other three distinct beings two with perfect immortal bodies the the third being spirit only.


It seems an odd thing to say that the trinity belief came about through the Nicene creed. Review of church history I have read has seen that creed as the end product of 250 years of consideration of the problem. It is true that it adopted wording which in a couple of places was new. It is true that there were some differences of understanding both before and after the creed was approved.

Bomgeography, what is the source of the divine power and authority those three personages have? Is it one or do they each have their own separate source of power? Is their power something they have in their own being or is it something they lack but can access?

The idea of the trinity developed with people trying to understand how it is that Jesus death could be atonement for the rest of us. It is the problem presented by a common atheist complaint. The Christian belief makes it sound like God is like a father who had two sons one which drove the family car recklessly and smashed it into a tree. The father says that was bad I am going to take your brother and give him a terrible beating, then I can forgive you. But does this story make any sense? Most people sense it is a tangled mess.

From the earliest formation of Christian thought over this problem found in the writing of Paul and on, it is Jesus's special identity as both truly God and truly human which presents a more workable view of the atonement. God shares his life with humans through Jesus. On the cross it is God the agreeved who suffers not just some innocent person. I am not sure that the nicene trinity is the only possible result of these considerations but it directly was the result of thought about this problem. I think any alternative view must be considered in terms of how well it answers the question of what is happening on the cross and how does that present hope to us.


The way I understand it the same power that created this world and others allows one to move mountains heal the sick etc.
I think it has always existed.
I personally think the doctrine that heavenly father and Christ have their own immortal bodies makes more sense then the trinity view that they are just spirits. After all what would Christ do with his perfect immortal body. We are created after their image.
To each their own though.

SEE Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
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Re: Being a God, per core LDS teachings

Post by _Markk »

bomgeography wrote:

Eternity is millions and billions of years what do you plan on doing during your spare time assuming you are perfected through Christ.


It is phrased "eons" in the Bible, not years... and we will be blown away by His Grace, in Him. Eph 2. I don't know what I will be doing, but I do know what I will not be, and that is God with all his power, knowledge and glory.

What will you be doing according to LDS theology?
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
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Re: Being a God, per core LDS teachings

Post by _bomgeography »

Markk wrote:
bomgeography wrote:

Eternity is millions and billions of years what do you plan on doing during your spare time assuming you are perfected through Christ.


It is phrased "eons" in the Bible, not years... and we will be blown away by His Grace, in Him. Eph 2. I don't know what I will be doing, but I do know what I will not be, and that is God with all his power, knowledge and glory.

What will you be doing according to LDS theology?


According to scripture those who are saved by gods grace will be become like there father in heaven perfect.

I imagine those who dwell with him will be tutored by him.

40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. (Luke 6)

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Matthew 5)
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Re: Being a God, per core LDS teachings

Post by _I have a question »

bomgeography wrote:I imagine...


That's all you do.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
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Re: Being a God, per core LDS teachings

Post by _Brackite »

The CCC wrote:Yes, I do believe in Theosis.
SEE http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_theosis.shtml


From that web page:

To those who follow Christ and receive His grace and power, great promises are extended. We are promised that we can receive "the fullness of God" through the grace of Christ (Ephesians 3:19). Christ said that we can become one with Him, as He is one with the Father (John 17:20-23).


Isn't John 17:20-23 along with John 10:30-33 the best evidence from the Bible that mankind can attain godhood??

John 10 (NASB)

30 I and the Father are [e]one.”

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”

e. John 10:30 Or a unity; or one essence



John 17 (NASB)

20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may [f]believe that You sent Me.

22 The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected [g]in unity, so that the world may [h]know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.

f. John 17:21 Gr tense indicates continually believe
g. John 17:23 Lit into one
h. John 17:23 Gr tense indicates continually know



John 17 (NKJV)

21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:





Logically and naturally, the ultimate desire of a loving Supreme Being is to help his children enjoy all that he enjoys. For Latter-day Saints, the term "godhood" denotes the attainment of such a state-one of having all divine attributes and doing as God does and being as God is. Such a state is to be enjoyed by all exalted, embodied, intelligent beings (see Deification, Early Christian; Eternal Progression; Exaltation; God; Perfection). The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that all resurrected and perfected mortals become gods (cf. Gen. 3:22; Matt. 5:48). They will dwell again with God the Father, and live and act like him in endless worlds of happiness, power, love, glory, and knowledge; above all, they will have the power of procreating endless lives. Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus Christ attained godhood (see Christology) and that he marked the path and led the way for others likewise to become exalted divine beings by following him (cf. John 14:3).


http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Godhood
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
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