Themis wrote:Unfortunately the LDS site is not accurate about the issue. you would be better off to read this one. It gives more accurate information about both DNA and Book of Mormon claims. It also includes new DNA research that looks at the whole DNA.
.... Mr. Southern is a disgruntled ex-member, and plant biologist with no relevant experience with human DNA.
After you posted the link to the lds unattributed essay, I ran through it again, and I agree with Themis' quick assessment. Of course, no authors are listed, I wonder why?
Have you read any of Simon's posts on this issue, CCC? It sounds like you are dismissing Simon's work on the basis of his personal life, rather than that, could you comment on his writings?
The CCC wrote:Unfortunately Jonestown was a death cult.
No. Death cult is a group that worships death. Jonestown did not.
Mr. Southern is a disgruntled ex-member, and plant biologist with no relevant experience with human DNA.
The LDS site is written by believers. So what? All you might be able to suggest is both sides are biased. Simon is a plant geneticist with a PHD. If you know anything about it, you would know he has a lot of knowledge about human DNA, and the necessary foundation to understand it. The real difference is he uses many scientific sources to back up his arguments so that a reader can do their own research of the issue. Not something LDS apologia is good at doing.
Lemmie wrote:After you posted the link to the lds unattributed essay, I ran through it again, and I agree with Themis' quick assessment. Of course, no authors are listed, I wonder why?
Have you read any of Simon's posts on this issue, CCC? It sounds like you are dismissing Simon's work on the basis of his personal life, rather than that, could you comment on his writings?
The apologetic strategy with Simon has been the main apologetic strategy with any critics. They attack his motives to suggest he already hated the church which is what is driving him to attack it. This is not really true with Simon. His problems with the church where based on his expertise in DNA. It was after his writings about it that the church decided to excommunicate him. They excommunicated him for adultery, something the church almost never does to inactive members if you know anything about how the church works at the local level. His writings predate his problems with the church that they started.
The CCC wrote:A PHD is no indication of relevant knowledge.
That's right. Relevant knowledge comes from peepstones in top hats. Silly critics.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee
That's not a death cult. Providing a link, especially one that does not support you, is not an argument. Death cults worship death. They didn't.
A PHD is no indication of relevant knowledge. IE; Dr. Ben Carson having a PHD doesn't make him remotely qualified to direct HUD.
A PHD in genetics does. It is more then relevant to human DNA. It provides the necessary foundation for one to understand the science of population genetics. If he was a PHD in engineering you might have a point, but even then one can still study the science without a degree. It's an ad hominem to attack him and not the argument. You are ignoring that he doesn't claim authority, but references the science so you can do your own research of what he is arguing. Not something you see in your link.
Lemmie wrote:After you posted the link to the lds unattributed essay, I ran through it again, and I agree with Themis' quick assessment. Of course, no authors are listed, I wonder why?
Have you read any of Simon's posts on this issue, CCC? It sounds like you are dismissing Simon's work on the basis of his personal life, rather than that, could you comment on his writings?
The apologetic strategy with Simon has been the main apologetic strategy with any critics. They attack his motives to suggest he already hated the church which is what is driving him to attack it. This is not really true with Simon. His problems with the church where based on his expertise in DNA. It was after his writings about it that the church decided to excommunicate him. They excommunicated him for adultery, something the church almost never does to inactive members if you know anything about how the church works at the local level. His writings predate his problems with the church that they started.
Thanks for the background, Themis. What a shoddy way to treat a member of their church. And what a reputation for a church to get, that their main apologetic strategy, well known and automatically followed by so many rank and file members, consists of attacking people's personal lives rather than attacking the content of the information.
Lemmie wrote:Thanks for the background, Themis. What a shoddy way to treat a member of their church. And what a reputation for a church to get, that their main apologetic strategy, well known and automatically followed by so many rank and file members, consists of attacking people's personal lives rather than attacking the content of the information.
Ya it is despicable what the church did, but it is a tactic that works. Simon I believe was separated and inactive from the church, so there was no reason for the church to seek him out to excommunicate him. The only reason was for his writings, and they lied about it. It's an unethical tactic to attack the person, but one that works. You can see how CCC will not even read Simon's arguments to understand then and see if they hold water. All he needed was to be told by the church he is a disgruntled member to avoid reading anything he says. For added measure they try to suggest he doesn't have the expertise to understand the issue when he clearly does. There is also a culture of being afraid to read anti material the church has developed in member's.
