We all want to know where we came from!

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_Dr. Shades
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Re: We all want to know where we came from!

Post by _Dr. Shades »

AmyJo wrote:He had a Jewish girlfriend when we met, before he knew he was fully Jewish!

"Fully Jewish". . . so he's Jewish on his biological father's side, too?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_AmyJo
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Re: We all want to know where we came from!

Post by _AmyJo »

Dr. Shades wrote:
AmyJo wrote:He had a Jewish girlfriend when we met, before he knew he was fully Jewish!

"Fully Jewish". . . so he's Jewish on his biological father's side, too?


Nope, only through my side.

I come from a direct descent of Jewish mothers dating back centuries. From European Germanic descent.

My great great (great) grandfathers were book printers and publishers of the Talmud and Hebrew/German prayer books from the 1400's through 1800's, that I know of. Before that, who knows where their forefathers came from? They managed to survive pogroms, genocides and the Holocaust piecemeal.

I met an Israeli cousin several years ago online. He'd become a genealogist just a few years before I had. He has some incredible resources he's put together since then. His uncle (also my cousin,) left him all his memorabilia as a journalist and AP director for Israel from 1942-1968, when he died. (the elder cousin had no children, so my cousin his nephew was the recipient of all his news and memorabilia.)

The elder cousin's most prized possession when fleeing Nazi Germany for Palestine the last time leading to the Holocaust was a family tree rolled up inside a cardboard tube. The Nazis had no idea of its intrinsic worth or would have surely destroyed it as he was leaving Germany. I have one of those same family trees that was circulated in the USA, pre-Holocaust. My mom made a print of an original she'd been given from a Jewish cousin, while doing genealogy years ago. Our book printer ancestors made many of those trees to leave their posterity. If not for that we might not have found each other. I had mine framed years ago in museum quality backed materials. My TBM brother whom my mom left her brittle falling apart original tree to, has kept it in his garage where it has gotten in even poorer condition than it was under my mom's care. I'm thankful she made me a copy of it before she died.

Another late cousin of mine's wife sent me a copy/print belonging to her late husband. It's identical to mine with exception someone in their family crossed out some names of close relatives they weren't happy with. He was from the Netherlands, and was a Dutch Resistance Fighter during WWII. His father and their whole family were very good friends of Otto Frank and his family. Their families moved together in 1933 to Amsterdam to escape persecution in Germany of the Jews. They were neighbors in Amsterdam. Following the war the older cousin (father of the Dutch Resistance fighting one/s) insisted that Otto publish the diary of Anne Frank. Otto wasn't going to if not for my cousin's insistence. My cousin was also a professor of journalism, mass media, and propaganda at the U. of Amsterdam following the war. He was one of the expert witnesses to authenticate the Diary of Anne Frank. I learned that doing my genealogy. Even my Israeli cousin didn't know that until I shared it with him. Now he's added that bit of history to the family archives.

The AP director's mother perished at one of the camps, as did her sisters. Each of her children were able to escape - she was in her sixties by then. Maybe she was too old and tired to try and outrun the Germans? Or like other of my cousins, didn't believe it would end as badly as it did.

If the mother is Jewish, so are her children, under Halacha Law "Law of Return." One of my children has made "Aliyah" to Israel based on this lineage. I didn't need to convert to Judaism leaving Mormonism, as I was always Jewish, from birth. Didn't actually learn that until it was needed. I'm not one for joining other religions. After resigning from Mormonism I haven't had any ardent desire to join another church. With Judaism I didn't have to, since I already was one "of the tribe." It was like coming home to me in a sense since I've been attending a local synagogue. The people there are mostly like family.
_Dr. Shades
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Re: We all want to know where we came from!

Post by _Dr. Shades »

AmyJo wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:"Fully Jewish". . . so he's Jewish on his biological father's side, too?

Nope, only through my side.

So he's half Jewish, then.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_Quasimodo
_Emeritus
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Re: We all want to know where we came from!

Post by _Quasimodo »

Dr. Shades wrote:
AmyJo wrote:So he's half Jewish, then.


I think that in Jewish tradition, if your mother is Jewish, you are fully Jewish.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
_AmyJo
_Emeritus
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Re: We all want to know where we came from!

Post by _AmyJo »

Dr. Shades wrote:So he's half Jewish, then.


Quasimodo would be correct. Hitler used the formula "1/2" and "1/4" etc. to measure Jewishness to decide who to murder. It isn't the same formula the Jews measure Jewishness by.

There is no half in being born Jewish. If your mother (and sometimes if father) are either Jewish that qualifies them to be fully Jewish in Judaism. Reform Jews use either the father or mother's lineage. Reform doesn't rule in Israel though. There the Orthodox Judaism rules the Knesset and the 'law of return.' Historically the Jews at some point during the Middle Ages declared that if the mother is Jewish, so are her children. That has helped preserve the Jewish people owing to wars and genocides where husbands, fathers may have been killed off. And/or women/wives and mothers were raped during wars and had illegitimate children whose biological fathers were more than likely not Jewish.

If we went by degrees of Jewishness as in how much bloodline, (it isn't actually a race by the way, just a religion,) I'd only be a fraction. It is based entirely on my being fully Jewish by virtue of my mother's mother's mother being fully Jewish that my children are also fully Jewish, no matter who or what their father may have been.

My brothers children are not Jewish because their wives are not. My children are because I continued the Jewish line for my family by virtue of being born a female. Hehehe.
_Jersey Girl
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Re: We all want to know where we came from!

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
Quasimodo wrote:How old is he now?

He will be 5 in a few months. He has an older half-sister (she is 12), and he knows about her and does Skype and FaceTime with her occasionally.

His mom and I started dating when he was a few months shy of 2. After dating a month, he decided I was "daddy," and try as we might, we couldn't get him to refer to me as anything but.

We've talked to a couple of people (including a MFT), and the general consensus seems to be that there is no general consensus on when we should breach the subject. The MFT's advice was that he will likely gradually figure it out on his own, or come to us when ready, because of the half-sister.


He refers to you as daddy, because you *are* his daddy, Steuss. <3

You don't say here if you adopted your son and I am not asking. I wanted to say that he is growing up in a world where he will likely know children who are adopted, parents divorced, parent deceased, being raised by SS couples, etc. I've taught many children who knew they were adopted when they came to preschool. Largely, foreign adoptees.

There are all kinds of families.

There really is no specific time to raise the subject. If you talk about his "half-sister" in those terms and in a matter of fact way, that could open the door when you believe he is ready, as you are helping him to understand the relationships in his family. And again, that there are all kinds of families.

His biological father gave him life.

You are the father who gave him your heart.

I so <3 you, Steuss. What a good dad you are! How blessed he is to have you!

You might find this book helpful: http://www.amazon.com/Lets-Talk-About-A ... 0698116259
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_AmyJo
_Emeritus
Posts: 1288
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:23 am

Re: We all want to know where we came from!

Post by _AmyJo »

AmyJo wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:So he's half Jewish, then.


Quasimodo would be correct. Hitler used the formula "1/2" and "1/4" etc. to measure Jewishness to decide who to murder. It isn't the same formula the Jews measure Jewishness by.

There is no half in being born Jewish. If your mother (and sometimes if father) are either Jewish that qualifies them to be fully Jewish in Judaism. Reform Jews use either the father or mother's lineage. Reform doesn't rule in Israel though. There the Orthodox Judaism rules the Knesset and the 'law of return.' Historically the Jews at some point during the Middle Ages declared that if the mother is Jewish, so are her children. That has helped preserve the Jewish people owing to wars and genocides where husbands, fathers may have been killed off. And/or women/wives and mothers were raped during wars and had illegitimate children whose biological fathers were more than likely not Jewish.

If we went by degrees of Jewishness as in how much bloodline, (it isn't actually a race by the way, just a religion,) I'd only be a fraction. It is based entirely on my being fully Jewish by virtue of my mother's mother's mother being fully Jewish that my children are also fully Jewish, no matter who or what their father may have been.

My brothers children are not Jewish because their wives are not. My children are because I continued the Jewish line for my family by virtue of being born a female. Hehehe.


You may have already learned this, but the Mormons were complicit in Nazi Germany with the Germans in using their genealogical records to learn who was and wasn't one-half and one-quarter Jewish for the extermination camps. It raised the Hitler flag, star of Jude on its walls forbidding any Jewish people, whether Mormon converts or not, to enter. And literally sent many good people to their death and genocide to honor the Third Reich. The one Mormon Resistance Fighter that is known to history books was turned out and excommunicated by the church before he was murdered by the Nazis for helping to protect Jews and others from the same fate he met himself.

It was traced back to SLC itself for the anti-Jewish sentiment during the Holocaust, and J. Reuben Clark who helped seal the fate of the Jewry of Europe by his outspoken hatred for them and anti-Semitism w/full propaganda in support of Hitler direct from Temple Square. So much for prophetic vision, not!

Then talk about hypocrisy. Following the Holocaust the same said church used the same said genealogical records to baptize by proxy those Jews who would have nothing to do with them in life, in order to heap the ultimate sacrilege upon the Jew. Jews want to be left alone to serve their God and worship according to the dictates of their conscience. Not to be baptized or forced conversions to any other religion. Why Christianity has used that for millenia and then Mormons came along to top it by well, if we can't convince you to join in this life we'll sock it to ya in the next one! It's the worst form of anti-Semitism there is next to death. Mormons were complicit in the deaths of Jews during the Holocaust, and then did an about face to purge its collective conscience by proxy baptisms after the Jews were murdered.

http://religionnews.com/2015/02/19/morm ... ird-reich/
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