Karma - intention or action based?

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_Amore
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Re: Karma - intention or action based?

Post by _Amore »

subgenius wrote:In other words doing and thinking are inseparable.

"The idea of karma may be compared to the notion of a person's "character", suggests Lochtefeld, as both are an assessment of the person and determined by that person's habitual thinking and acting." (emphasis mine)

I agree, Subgenius, but as you seemed to imply, this is a deeper truth, not as apparent.
Why we do what we do, is always preceded by thought and intent, and then our thoughts/intents are affected by our actions/habits.

Still, I wonder about the level or power of spiritual energy generated by
1. thoughts
2. intent/emotion
3. action

If I simply think about something - maybe because I saw something on the news... but it's negative, my energy may be depleted or changed in some way, but probably less than if I were to imagine doing the same thing to someone I hate & getting all pissed off... and further distinctively if I actually acted on my thoughts and intent by hurting someone.

Then again, it seems common for people to walk around with a low level of anger - maybe dwelling on victim memories, or to feel justified etc... Is that better or worse than say, someone yelling at whoever they're mad at, and then letting it go? Maybe there's 2 types of karma - the type that affects us physiologically by stress etc. (metaphysical)... and then the boomerang karma that comes from how we treat others.
_subgenius
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Re: Karma - intention or action based?

Post by _subgenius »

Amore wrote:
subgenius wrote:In other words doing and thinking are inseparable.

"The idea of karma may be compared to the notion of a person's "character", suggests Lochtefeld, as both are an assessment of the person and determined by that person's habitual thinking and acting." (emphasis mine)

I agree, Subgenius, but as you seemed to imply, this is a deeper truth, not as apparent.
Why we do what we do, is always preceded by thought and intent, and then our thoughts/intents are affected by our actions/habits.

Still, I wonder about the level or power of spiritual energy generated by
1. thoughts
2. intent/emotion
3. action

If I simply think about something - maybe because I saw something on the news... but it's negative, my energy may be depleted or changed in some way, but probably less than if I were to imagine doing the same thing to someone I hate & getting all pissed off... and further distinctively if I actually acted on my thoughts and intent by hurting someone.

Then again, it seems common for people to walk around with a low level of anger - maybe dwelling on victim memories, or to feel justified etc... Is that better or worse than say, someone yelling at whoever they're mad at, and then letting it go? Maybe there's 2 types of karma - the type that affects us physiologically by stress etc. (metaphysical)... and then the boomerang karma that comes from how we treat others.

"The consequence or effects of one's karma can be described in two forms: phalas and samskaras. A phala (literally, fruit or result) is the visible or invisible effect that is typically immediate or within the current life. In contrast, samskaras are always those invisible effect that are produced inside the actor because of the karma, thus transforming the agent and affecting his or her ability to be happy or unhappy in this life as well as in future lives. The theory of karma is often presented in the context of samskaras"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma#Karma_and_causality


Phillip K Dick, a noted science fiction author, wrote a book - "VALIS". It engages notions about God and schizophrenia, etc. A very influential book on one of my favorite albums, "Sister" by Sonic Youth.
His premise maintains that people walk around today "thinking" they are Napoleon or Jesus because the energy created by those individuals is circulating about and becomes coincidence with their consciousness...for whatever reason of Physics. This goes along the whole matter and energy not being created nor destroyed...but begs the question about the permanence of matter or energy being organized. This has been particularly interesting to me as i have come across many discussion about the Genesis of our world and how it can be considered to have been organized by God rather than an ex nihilo creation - the idea of which came first, the Law or God.
Now, for our purposes it seems that all action is predicated on a notion of faith. One 'does' nothing without a belief that it will be a successful endeavor. I set my alarm at night believing it will wake me up at a certain time...i direct my hand to grasp the door handle believing that it will result in the door being opened for my passage...i breathe in air with the belief that oxygen will pass into my lungs...etc..
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
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_Amore
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Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:27 pm

Re: Karma - intention or action based?

Post by _Amore »

subgenius wrote:"The consequence or effects of one's karma can be described in two forms: phalas and samskaras. A phala (literally, fruit or result) is the visible or invisible effect that is typically immediate or within the current life. In contrast, samskaras are always those invisible effect that are produced inside the actor because of the karma, thus transforming the agent and affecting his or her ability to be happy or unhappy in this life as well as in future lives. The theory of karma is often presented in the context of samskaras"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma#Karma_and_causality

Thanks for letting me know about this - interesting how it's similar and relatively common knowledge, as what I could barely put into words.
Phillip K Dick, a noted science fiction author, wrote a book - "VALIS". It engages notions about God and schizophrenia, etc. A very influential book on one of my favorite albums, "Sister" by Sonic Youth.
His premise maintains that people walk around today "thinking" they are Napoleon or Jesus because the energy created by those individuals is circulating about and becomes coincidence with their consciousness...for whatever reason of Physics. This goes along the whole matter and energy not being created nor destroyed...but begs the question about the permanence of matter or energy being organized. This has been particularly interesting to me as i have come across many discussion about the Genesis of our world and how it can be considered to have been organized by God rather than an ex nihilo creation - the idea of which came first, the Law or God.
Now, for our purposes it seems that all action is predicated on a notion of faith. One 'does' nothing without a belief that it will be a successful endeavor. I set my alarm at night believing it will wake me up at a certain time...i direct my hand to grasp the door handle believing that it will result in the door being opened for my passage...i breathe in air with the belief that oxygen will pass into my lungs...etc..

I've wondered about something similarly... like if there are a type of spiritual families, or spirit corporations with different missions - kind of like you'd find going through a phone book. I don't believe in strict determinism yet I do see that free agency is not 100% free (without being a non entity full of infinite potential). So, maybe all of this karma and duality is limited to us entities. And as you implied, faith underlies everything we do - otherwise we wouldn't even try doing it if we didn't have faith it could be done.

So... tell me if you think this might be true.... If there is such a thing as karma - or rather energy that is affected and affects - it would be based on both intention and action; intention from a metaphysical and potentially material affect... and action as just material (immediate consequence).

Another somewhat related question: is it true that "there must needs be opposition in all things" - and how does that relate with karma?
Does joy need to be balanced with pain? Are opposites real - or just subjectively interpreted and relative?
I hate irresponsible harm done in the name of relativism, so I'm not suggesting to do away with morals, but I wonder if morality depends on circumstances - like a note not being "bad" or "good" but inappropriate in certain contexts (timing, key, pitch, etc.).
Are yin/yang influences part of karma - energetic wholeness?

by the way... how do you think God and schizophrenia would be related?
I've read that schizophrenia (from a spiritual perspective) may be spiritual maturity that is overdeveloped compared to intellectual/social/psychological understanding and higher dimensions theoretically are "infinite possibilities of infinite possible universes" - so maybe schizophrenia sees more truth - but the truth is overwhelming in the world we live in.
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