The discernment of Mormon leaders is questionable

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_Mittens
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Re: The discernment of Mormon leaders is questionable

Post by _Mittens »

maklelan wrote:
Mittens wrote:Please explain why the Book of Mormon completely agrees with the Creeds, except for the Athanasion Creeds saying not confounding the persons [ mixing them up ] which pre-1835 Joseph Smith did.


Smith was influenced by Methodism and other Protestant ideologies in the early going. What's the big deal? Can you tell me why anyone should listen to you given how many misrepresentations and misunderstandings I pointed out in your little collection of putatively trinitarian verses?


Probable because pre-1835 Joseph Smith was a Trinitarian :lol:


COUNSEL GIVEN BY PRESIDENT CHARLES W. PENROSE

Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." Well, what is the fulness of the gospel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, Section 76, in the Doctrine and Covenants, and you find there defined what the gospel is. There God, the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his Son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three Persons in the Trinity—the one God, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principles, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason: If you really believe so as to have faith in our Eternal Father and in his Son, Jesus Christ, the Redeemer, and will hear him, you will learn ail about what is needed to be done for the salvation of the living and redemption of the dead.

When people believe and repent and are baptized by divine authority, and the Holy Ghost is conferred upon them as a gift, they receive the everlasting gospel. We used to call it, and it is now called in the revelations, the "gift of the Holy Ghost," the Holy Spirit that proceeds from the Father through the immensity of space, which guides, directs, enlightens, which is light in and of itself, which is the Spirit of intelligence, the light of truth. (General Conference Report, April 1922, pp. 27-28.)
Justice = Getting what you deserve
Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
_maklelan
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Re: The discernment of Mormon leaders is questionable

Post by _maklelan »

Mittens wrote:Probable because pre-1835 Joseph Smith was a Trinitarian :lol:


That's basically what I said.
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_Mittens
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Re: The discernment of Mormon leaders is questionable

Post by _Mittens »

maklelan wrote:
Mittens wrote:Probable because pre-1835 Joseph Smith was a Trinitarian :lol:


That's basically what I said.


Just proves

Eph 2:20 "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
The Christian Church is built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets" while Mormonism is built on a new foundation of shifting sand that is false teachings, false Apostles, false prophets and a false Jesus father and holy spirit

and you have bought Joseph Smith's lies hook line and sinker :lol:
Justice = Getting what you deserve
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_maklelan
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Re: The discernment of Mormon leaders is questionable

Post by _maklelan »

Mittens wrote: Just proves

Eph 2:20 "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
The Christian Church is built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets" while Mormonism is built on a new foundation of shifting sand that is false teachings, false Apostles, false prophets and a false Jesus father and holy spirit

and you have bought Joseph Smith's lies hook line and sinker :lol:


I really don't think you're following me.
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_Bazooka
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Re: The discernment of Mormon leaders is questionable

Post by _Bazooka »

maklelan wrote:Smith was influenced by Methodism and other Protestant ideologies in the early going. What's the big deal?


Was that before or after....
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng
That said, with the Book of Mormon, we are not dealing with a civilization with no written record. What we are dealing with is a written record with no civilization. (Runtu, Feb 2015)
_subgenius
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Re: The discernment of Mormon leaders is questionable

Post by _subgenius »

Bazooka wrote:
maklelan wrote:Smith was influenced by Methodism and other Protestant ideologies in the early going. What's the big deal?


Was that before or after....
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng

"influence" is both persuasion and effect...and not always towards something. Necessity is arguably the biggest influence of all.
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_Mittens
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Re: The discernment of Mormon leaders is questionable

Post by _Mittens »

maklelan wrote:
Smith was influenced by Methodism and other Protestant ideologies in the early going. What's the big deal?

but I thought Joseph Smith was a translator of the Book of Mormon not a contributor :lol:

who ever the contributor was he a was a full blown Trinitarian
Justice = Getting what you deserve
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_maklelan
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Re: The discernment of Mormon leaders is questionable

Post by _maklelan »

Mittens wrote:maklelan wrote:
Smith was influenced by Methodism and other Protestant ideologies in the early going. What's the big deal?

but I thought Joseph Smith was a translator of the Book of Mormon not a contributor :lol:

who ever the contributor was he a was a full blown Trinitarian


Well, I guess that illustrates how much you're just imagining what my beliefs are and then berating those imaginary beliefs.
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_Mittens
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Re: The discernment of Mormon leaders is questionable

Post by _Mittens »

Please give me verses in the Book of Mormon that disagree with the Creeds other than the modalism texts below if your so smart :lol:


Luke 10:
23 All things are delivered to me of my Father; and no man knoweth that the Son is the Father, and the Father is the Son, but him to whom the Son will reveal it. JST

Mosiah 15
3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.

Mosiah 16:
15 Teach them that redemption cometh through Christ the Lord, who is the very Eternal Father. Amen.



Alma 11:38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?


Helaman 14:12 And also that ye might know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and that ye might know of the signs of his coming, to the intent that ye might believe on his name.

Ether 3:14 Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.


http://carm.org/heresies
Justice = Getting what you deserve
Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve
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