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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:19 pm 
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LittleNipper wrote:
Maksutov wrote:

Jesus is never where he needs to be, because he's dead. What people are describing as contact with a holy ghost/spirit are their own imaginations, just as in the practice of spiritualists with their seances. That's why each has their own understanding and their own religion and why they fail objective tests (which they usually try to avoid anyway). They can say they're talking to Jesus, but you have to take their word for it. You can pretend that they're experiencing the same thing, but you don't know. Just like you don't know if the Bible was translated correctly. You are relying on other people's understanding combined with your own will to believe.

The study of the scriptures is a literary effort. It relates to a literary universe with its relatively small subset of perspectives and concerns. The real universe, if you look up from your book with eyes open and brain engaged, is much greater than your book describes. That is why many of us have not remained within its pages: we have outgrown it. :wink:


The Universe is far --- far greater than any science book ever described it. And yet it is only a mere shadow of GOD its Creator. How much you are in danger of missing out on. :cry:


Of course the Universe is greater than any science book ever described it. But it is not a shadow of an imaginary being. It is all that is. But you wouldn't know that because you never leave copying and pasting your ancient books. Your book did not take us to land on other worlds. It did not help us understand human genetics or physiology. It did not help us map the solar system and the galaxy. It did not help us understand the history of humans all over the world, since it concerned itself only with a small tribe in the Middle East. It did not help us develop legitimate codes of morality because it sanctioned genocide and child abuse. It did not help us develop science because it fought science wherever it could.

Your book is the shadow, Nipper. It's the shadow of ignorance and abuse and delusion. There is poetry in it, but there is more poetry in the works of Mark Twain and Shakespeare and they did not have to send people on crusades and fatwas and holocausts. Your book is most powerful when people don't read it, only pretend to, because the worship of the Bible is another cult. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:

The Universe is far --- far greater than any science book ever described it. And yet it is only a mere shadow of GOD its Creator. How much you are in danger of missing out on. :cry:


Of course the Universe is greater than any science book ever described it. But it is not a shadow of an imaginary being. It is all that is. But you wouldn't know that because you never leave copying and pasting your ancient books. Your book did not take us to land on other worlds. It did not help us understand human genetics or physiology. It did not help us map the solar system and the galaxy. It did not help us understand the history of humans all over the world, since it concerned itself only with a small tribe in the Middle East. It did not help us develop legitimate codes of morality because it sanctioned genocide and child abuse. It did not help us develop science because it fought science wherever it could.

Your book is the shadow, Nipper. It's the shadow of ignorance and abuse and delusion. There is poetry in it, but there is more poetry in the works of Mark Twain and Shakespeare and they did not have to send people on crusades and fatwas and holocausts. Your book is most powerful when people don't read it, only pretend to, because the worship of the Bible is another cult. :wink:


So, you don't know why man exists, what the difference between good and bad is, and you offer no hope for the dying. You chalk up the steady increase of earthquakes, growing intensity of tornadoes & hurricanes, and horrific shootings to nothing but ecological rhetoric and propaganda.

The crusades were a reaction to Muslim hostilities and invasion. And it never dawns on you that if the Bible was merely the "religious" imagination of a very small middle eastern country of sheepherders that we would not be discussing it now --- Mahamud would not have had anything to confuse & confound, and Joseph Smith would have only married once ---- if at all. :ugeek:

The reality is that evolutionists are scared because what they proposed would take millions of years is suddenly happening in quick order --- in other words, Creation and the Flood are even more likely than they would care to imagine --- given that they ignore GOD.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:07 pm 
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Revelation 14:1-20

I then looked, and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion. And with Him were 144,000 who were labeled with both His name and His Father’s name on their foreheads.

I heard a sound from heaven like the sound of water gushing and like the sound of pealing thunder. This sound I heard was also like that of harpists playing on their harps.

They were singing a new song before the throne and before the 4 living beings and the elders, and no one could learn the song except the 144,000 who have been ransomed from the world.

These are the men who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins; they follow the Lamb wherever He goes; they have been ransomed from among humanity as firstfruits for God and the Lamb.

Upon their lips no lie was found — they are without defect.

Following I observed another angel flying in midair with everlasting Good News to proclaim to those living on the earth — to every nation, tribe, language and people.

In a loud voice he said, “Regard God, give Him glory, for the hour has come when he will pass judgment! Worship the One who created heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water!”

Another angel, a 2nd one, followed, saying, “She has fallen! She has fallen! Babylon the Great! She caused all the nations to drink the wine of God’s fury caused by her whoring!”

Another angel, a 3rd one, followed them and said in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives the mark on his forehead or on his hand,

he will in fact drink the wine of God’s undiluted fury poured into the cup of His rage. He will be tormented by fire and sulfur before the holy angels and before the Lamb.

And the smoke from their tormenting goes up forever and eternally. They have no rest, day or night, those who worship the beast and its image and those who receive the mark of its name.”

This is when perseverance is needed on the part of God’s people, those who observe His commands and exercise Jesus' faithfulness.

Next I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write: ‘How blessed are the dead who die united with the Lord, from now on!’ ‘Yes,’ says the Spirit, ‘now they may rest from their efforts, for the things they have accomplished follow them.’”

Then I looked, and there before me was a white cloud. Seated on the cloud was someone like a Son of Man with a gold crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.

Another angel emerged from the Temple and shouted to the one sitting on the cloud, “Start using your sickle to reap, because the time to reap has arrived... The earth’s harvest is ripe!”

The one sitting on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.

Another angel emerged from the Temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle.

Then out from the altar went yet another angel, who was in charge of the fire; and he called in a loud voice to the one with the sharp sickle, “Use your sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because they are ripe!”

The angel swung his sickle down onto the earth, gathered the earth’s grapes and threw them into God's great winepress of fury.

The winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood gushed from the winepress as high as horses’ bridles for 200 miles!


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And I saw, and lo, a Lamb having stood upon the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty-four thousands, having the name of his Father written upon their foreheads;

2 and I heard a voice out of the heaven, as a voice of many waters, and as a voice of great thunder, and a voice I heard of harpers harping with their harps,

3 and they sing, as it were, a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures, and the elders, and no one was able to learn the song except the hundred forty-four thousands, who have been bought from the earth;

4 these are they who with women were not defiled, for they are virgin; these are they who are following the Lamb whithersoever he may go; these were bought from among men -- a first-fruit to God and to the Lamb --

5 and in their mouth there was not found guile, for unblemished are they before the throne of God.

6 And I saw another messenger flying in mid-heaven, having good news age-during to proclaim to those dwelling upon the earth, and to every nation, and tribe, and tongue, and people,

7 saying in a great voice, `Fear ye God, and give to Him glory, because come did the hour of His judgment, and bow ye before Him who did make the heaven, and the land, and sea, and fountains of waters.'

8 And another messenger did follow, saying, `Fall, fall, did Babylon, the great city, because of the wine of the wrath of her whoredom she hath given to all nations to drink.'

9 And a third messenger did follow them, saying in a great voice, `If any one the beast doth bow before, and his image, and doth receive a mark upon his forehead, or upon his hand,

10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, that hath been mingled unmixed in the cup of His anger, and he shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy messengers, and before the Lamb,

11 and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.

12 Here is endurance of the saints: here [are] those keeping the commands of God, and the faith of Jesus.'

13 And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, `Write: Happy are the dead who in the Lord are dying from this time!' `Yes, (saith the Spirit,) That they may rest from their labours -- and their works do follow them!'

14 And I saw, and lo, a white cloud, and upon the cloud [one] sitting like to a son of man, having upon his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle;

15 and another messenger did come forth out of the sanctuary crying in a great voice to him who is sitting upon the cloud, `Send forth thy sickle and reap, because come to thee hath the hour of reaping, because ripe hath been the harvest of the earth;'

16 and he who is sitting upon the cloud did put forth his sickle upon the earth, and the earth was reaped.

17 And another messenger did come forth out of the sanctuary that [is] in the heaven, having -- he also -- a sharp sickle,

18 and another messenger did come forth out from the altar, having authority over the fire, and he called with a great cry to him having the sharp sickle, saying, `Send forth thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, because come to perfection have her grapes;'

19 and the messenger did put forth his sickle to the earth, and did gather the vine of the earth, and did cast [it] to the great wine-press of the wrath of God;

20 and trodden was the wine-press outside of the city, and blood did come forth out of the wine-press -- unto the bridles of the horses, a thousand, six hundred furlongs.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:48 pm 
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LittleNipper wrote:
So, you don't know why man exists,
what the difference between good and bad is, and
you offer no hope for the dying.
You chalk up the steady increase of earthquakes, growing intensity of tornadoes & hurricanes, and horrific shootings to nothing but ecological rhetoric and propaganda.



Man exists because he is part of the natural order of life which has existed on this planet for billions of years.

I know the difference between good and bad. Give me a situation and I can tell you. I don't have to rely on a book with over six hundred different commandments in it that has been demonstrated to be full of factual errors and forgeries. Biblical morality is often horrific and obscene. Abraham and Lot should have been locked up as criminals. Moses should have been prosecuted for violent crimes. And so on.

I offer no hope for the dying? This is what it comes down to, Nipper. Your religion is based on fear. Fear of death. Fear of nothingness or fear of hell. These are things that you have learned to imagine and torment yourself with. "Hell" is a fiction of many religions to coerce people. Nothingness is something you will never experience, so you will never know a moment when you are not alive. That's even better than eternal life. If you cannot bear reality, the human condition, you may well clutch any fantasy to you to shield you from that. That is where your intelligence and integrity might come in, but most likely you will default to the traditions of those familiar to you. If you cling to a Jack Chick fantasy of divine sadism, you are welcome to it and I hope it weighs heavily on you.

Oh, you see in natural phenomena of a dynamic planet some indication of divine intervention? If you sort through enough noise you can connect some dots into some sort of pattern, but you're practicing something like divination. You aren't bothering to study those natural processes and so all of your opinions regarding them are founded in scientific ignorance and magical thinking. :wink: But I think that's what we've come to expect from you, isn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:53 pm 
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LittleNipper wrote:
The reality is that evolutionists are scared because what they proposed would take millions of years is suddenly happening in quick order --- in other words, Creation and the Flood are even more likely than they would care to imagine --- given that they ignore GOD.


Did you get this from a pamphlet at the Ark Park? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Or from your Patriot Bible warehouse in the desert diploma mill for Christian crackpots? :biggrin:

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:27 am 
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Maksutov wrote:
I don't have to rely on a book with over six hundred different commandments in it that has been demonstrated to be full of factual errors and forgeries.

more than 2/3 of them begin as "not to..." or "must not..."

613...

613 is one of the most famous Jewish numbers, representing all the commandments of the Torah. How many can you name?

2 (two):
70 Men must not wear women's clothing Deut. 22:5
71 Women must not wear men's clothing Deut. 22:5
--- there are no definitions of women's clothing or men's clothing

plus 3:
265 Not to eat Ma'aser Sheni grains outside Jerusalem Deut. 12:17
266 Not to eat Ma'aser Sheni wine products outside Jerusalem Deut. 12:17
267 Not to eat Ma'aser Sheni oil outside Jerusalem Deut. 12:17
--- got it?

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Six months after its publication Soviet authorities banned the book and attempted to remove it from libraries and bookshops.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:15 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:
The reality is that evolutionists are scared because what they proposed would take millions of years is suddenly happening in quick order --- in other words, Creation and the Flood are even more likely than they would care to imagine --- given that they ignore GOD.


Did you get this from a pamphlet at the Ark Park? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Or from your Patriot Bible warehouse in the desert diploma mill for Christian crackpots? :biggrin:

Image


You seem a very superficial sort of person. Your proof of truth seems to be in the packaging instead of the heart. Had the institution appeared as the Vatican, would you then be pointing out how they waste money! You jump from one contrivance to another. What you lack in spirituality you try to overcome with tenacity. Well, they have built an ARK. I don't suppose that you will print pictures of that? Did you know that Lincoln didn't have a degree from any university or college. I guess that makes him a pretty worthless individual to your way of thinking... Of course there are Christian universities and colleges presently --- but I suppose that they count as nothing to you. They don't fully accept what you believe. You believe in "NATURAL ORDER"! that is your god. I see no proof of "natural" order. I see disorder and the steady ruination of this planet. From a logical standpoint, I see no relative reason nature would bring about humanity to tear it apart! And yet this is your logic, your god, you hope, ultimately!


Last edited by LittleNipper on Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:37 pm 
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Revelation 15:1-8

Then I saw an additional sign in heaven, a great and wonderful one — 7 angels having 7 plagues that are the final ones; because with them, God’s fury reaches its climax.

I saw what looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire. Those defeating the beast, its image and the number of its name were standing by the sea of glass, holding harps which God had provided to them.

They were singing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb: “Great and wonderful are the things you have accomplished, Lord, God of heaven’s armies! Just and true are your ways --- King of the nations!

Lord, who will not regard and glorify Your name? This is because You alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous deeds have been revealed.”

Following this I observed, and the sanctuary (that is, the Tent of Witness in heaven) was opened.

And out of the sanctuary came the 7 angels with 7 plagues. They were dressed in clean bright linen and had gold belts around their chests.

One of the 4 living beings handed the 7 angels 7 gold bowls filled with God's fury, who lives forever and eternally.

Then the sanctuary was filled with smoke from God’s Glory, that is, from His might; and no one could enter the sanctuary until the 7 plagues of the 7 angels had accomplished their purpose.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And I saw another sign in the heaven, great and wonderful, seven messengers having the seven last plagues, because in these was completed the wrath of God,

2 and I saw as a sea of glass mingled with fire, and those who do gain the victory over the beast, and his image, and his mark, [and] the number of his name, standing by the sea of the glass, having harps of God,

3 and they sing the song of Moses, servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, `Great and wonderful [are] Thy works, O Lord God, the Almighty, righteous and true [are] Thy ways, O King of saints,

4 who may not fear Thee, O Lord, and glorify Thy name? because Thou alone [art] kind, because all the nations shall come and bow before Thee, because Thy righteous acts were manifested.'

5 And after these things I saw, and lo, opened was the sanctuary of the tabernacle of the testimony in the heaven;

6 and come forth did the seven messengers having the seven plagues, out of the sanctuary, clothed in linen, pure and shining, and girded round the breasts with golden girdles:

7 and one of the four living creatures did give to the seven messengers seven golden vials, full of the wrath of God, who is living to the ages of the ages;

8 and filled was the sanctuary with smoke from the glory of God, and from His power, and no one was able to enter into the sanctuary till the seven plagues of the seven messengers may be finished.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Revelation 16:1-21

I heard a loud voice from the sanctuary say to the 7 angels, “Go, and pour out on the earth the 7 bowls of God’s fury!”

The 1st one went and poured his bowl onto the earth, and disgusting and painful sores appeared on all the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.

The 2nd one poured out his bowl into the sea, and it became like a corpse's blood, and every living thing in the sea died.

The 3rd one poured out his bowl into the rivers and springs of water, and they turned to blood.

Then I heard the angel of the waters say, “Oh Righteous, the One who is and was, you are just in these judgments of yours.

They spilled the blood of your people and your prophets, so you have made them drink blood. They deserve it!”


Then I heard the altar say, “Yes, Lord, God of heaven’s armies, your judgments are true and just!”

The 4th one poured out his bowl on the sun, and it was permitted to scorch people with fire.

People were burned by the intense heat; yet they cursed the name of God, who had the authority over these plagues, instead of turning from their sins to give him glory.

The 5th one poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom grew dark. People bit their tongues from the pain.

Still, they cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and sores, and did not turn from their sinful ways.

The 6th one poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water dried up, in order to prepare the way for the rulers from the east.

And I witnessed 3 unclean spirits that looked like frogs; they came from the dragon's mouth, from the mouth of the beast and from the mouth of the false prophet.

They are miracle-working demonic spirits which go out to the kings of the whole inhabited planet to assemble them for the War of the Great Day of Lord God Almighty.

(“See! I am coming like a thief! How blessed are those who stay alert and keep their apparel clean, so that they won’t be walking naked and be publicly shamed!”)

And they gathered the rulers to the place which in Hebrew is called Har Megiddo/Armageddon.

The 7th one poured out his bowl on the air, and a loud voice was emitted from the Temple from the throne, saying, “It is done!”

There were flashes of lightning, voices and thunderclaps; and there was a massive earthquake, such as has never occurred since mankind has existed on earth, so violent was the earthquake.

The great city was split into 3 sections, the cities of the nations collapsed, and God remembered Babylon the Great and made her drink the wine from the cup of His raging fury.

Every island disappeared, and the mountains were gone.

And huge 70-pound hailstones pummeled the people from the sky. But the people cursed God for the plague of hail, that it was such a horrible plague.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And I heard a great voice out of the sanctuary saying to the seven messengers, `Go away, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God to the earth;'

2 and the first did go away, and did pour out his vial upon the land, and there came a sore -- bad and grievous -- to men, those having the mark of the beast, and those bowing to his image.

3 And the second messenger did pour out his vial to the sea, and there came blood as of [one] dead, and every living soul died in the sea.

4 And the third messenger did pour out his vial to the rivers, and to the fountains of the waters, and there came blood,

5 and I heard the messenger of the waters, saying, `righteous, O Lord, art Thou, who art, and who wast, and who shalt be, because these things Thou didst judge,

6 because blood of saints and prophets they did pour out, and blood to them Thou didst give to drink, for they are worthy;'

7 and I heard another out of the altar, saying, `Yes, Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous [are] Thy judgments.'

8 And the fourth messenger did pour out his vial upon the sun, and there was given to him to scorch men with fire,

9 and men were scorched with great heat, and they did speak evil of the name of God, who hath authority over these plagues, and they did not reform -- to give to Him glory.

10 And the fifth messenger did pour out his vial upon the throne of the beast, and his kingdom did become darkened, and they were gnawing their tongues from the pain,

11 and they did speak evil of the God of the heaven, from their pains, and from their sores, and they did not reform from their works.

12 And the sixth messenger did pour out his vial upon the great river, the Euphrates, and dried up was its water, that the way of the kings who are from the rising of the sun may be made ready;

13 and I saw [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs --

14 for they are spirits of demons, doing signs -- which go forth unto the kings of the earth, and of the whole world, to bring them together to the battle of that great day of God the Almighty; --

15 `lo, I do come as a thief; happy [is] he who is watching, and keeping his garments, that he may not walk naked, and they may see his unseemliness,' --

16 and they did bring them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Armageddon.

17 And the seventh messenger did pour out his vial to the air, and there came forth a great voice from the sanctuary of the heaven, from the throne, saying, `It hath come!'

18 and there came voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and a great earthquake came, such as came not since men came upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake -- so great!

19 And it came -- the great city -- into three parts, and the cities of the nations did fall, and Babylon the great was remembered before God, to give to her the cup of the wine of the wrath of His anger,

20 and every island did flee away, and mountains were not found,

21 and great hail (as of talent weight) doth come down out of the heaven upon men, and men did speak evil of God because of the plague of the hail, because its plague is very great.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:22 pm 
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LittleNipper wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
Did you get this from a pamphlet at the Ark Park? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Or from your Patriot Bible warehouse in the desert diploma mill for Christian crackpots? :biggrin:

Image

You seem a very superficial sort of person. Your proof of truth seems to be in the packaging instead of the heart. You jump from one contrivance to another. What you lack in spirituality you try to overcome with tenacity. Well, they have built an ARK. I don't suppose that you will print pictures of that? Did you know that Lincoln didn't have a degree from any university or college. I guess that makes him a pretty worthless individual to your way of thinking... Of course there are Christian universities and colleges presently --- but I suppose that they count as nothing to you. They don't fully accept what you believe. You believe in "NATURAL ORDER"! that is your god. I see no proof of "natural" order. I see disorder and the steady ruination of this planet. From a logical standpoint, I see no relative reason nature would bring about humanity to tear it apart? And yet this is your logic, ultimately!

So many errors in your post. Yes, there is a natural order. Unfortunately, the understanding of it that has been extensively documented and developed over the last several hundred years is lost on you because it isn't in your bundle of Bronze Age fables. I'm a superficial person? I'm a person trying to grapple with the lessons of the past that people have given their lives for. You're the ungrateful amnesiac who belittles scientists while writing on a network designed by them. You defend mail order fantasies masquerading as education and promoted by convicted felons like Kent Hovind. You cling to a fantasy of a massive boat that could hold representative samples of millions of species and transport them and keep them alive and from destroying eachother, to land on a mountain top and disperse them all over the globe from there. It's up there with Santa visiting all the chimneys on Christmas eve, it's on par with Easter Bunnies and Tooth Fairies and goblins and all the dramas of childhood. It's quite remarkable to see so many alleged adults who maintain a massive part of their lives in an infantile state. I don't think it's a character flaw, I think it's a toxic subculture that lives parasitically off of healthier greater societies. It's not to your credit that you seek to perpetuate it.

The Bible can be a body of literature that can be understood in historical and scientific perspective but more often it has been weaponized for intracultural advantage. I won't honor that, any more than I will respect cultic approaches to the Bible, the Q'ran, the Urantia Book or The Origin of Species. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:40 am 
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Maksutov wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:
You seem a very superficial sort of person. Your proof of truth seems to be in the packaging instead of the heart. You jump from one contrivance to another. What you lack in spirituality you try to overcome with tenacity. Well, they have built an ARK. I don't suppose that you will print pictures of that? Did you know that Lincoln didn't have a degree from any university or college. I guess that makes him a pretty worthless individual to your way of thinking... Of course there are Christian universities and colleges presently --- but I suppose that they count as nothing to you. They don't fully accept what you believe. You believe in "NATURAL ORDER"! that is your god. I see no proof of "natural" order. I see disorder and the steady ruination of this planet. From a logical standpoint, I see no relative reason nature would bring about humanity to tear it apart? And yet this is your logic, ultimately!

So many errors in your post. Yes, there is a natural order. Unfortunately, the understanding of it that has been extensively documented and developed over the last several hundred years is lost on you because it isn't in your bundle of Bronze Age fables. I'm a superficial person? I'm a person trying to grapple with the lessons of the past that people have given their lives for. You're the ungrateful amnesiac who belittles scientists while writing on a network designed by them. You defend mail order fantasies masquerading as education and promoted by convicted felons like Kent Hovind. You cling to a fantasy of a massive boat that could hold representative samples of millions of species and transport them and keep them alive and from destroying eachother, to land on a mountain top and disperse them all over the globe from there. It's up there with Santa visiting all the chimneys on Christmas eve, it's on par with Easter Bunnies and Tooth Fairies and goblins and all the dramas of childhood. It's quite remarkable to see so many alleged adults who maintain a massive part of their lives in an infantile state. I don't think it's a character flaw, I think it's a toxic subculture that lives parasitically off of healthier greater societies. It's not to your credit that you seek to perpetuate it.

The Bible can be a body of literature that can be understood in historical and scientific perspective but more often it has been weaponized for intracultural advantage. I won't honor that, any more than I will respect cultic approaches to the Bible, the Q'ran, the Urantia Book or The Origin of Species. :wink:

Someday soon you will die and after that comes judgement. As you grow old you will see how time seems so fleeting, and you will find no comfort from your works. I point to the manger and you and your sort points to Santa. I point to the cross and you the Easter Bunny. I point to eternity and you point to fairies, aliens, and zombies. I point to the savior and you are trying to save yourself. I would suggest the you are infantile when one weighs your standards against those of the LORD. :ugeek:


Last edited by LittleNipper on Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:27 am 
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LittleNipper wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
So many errors in your post. Yes, there is a natural order. Unfortunately, the understanding of it that has been extensively documented and developed over the last several hundred years is lost on you because it isn't in your bundle of Bronze Age fables. I'm a superficial person? I'm a person trying to grapple with the lessons of the past that people have given their lives for. You're the ungrateful amnesiac who belittles scientists while writing on a network designed by them. You defend mail order fantasies masquerading as education and promoted by convicted felons like Kent Hovind. You cling to a fantasy of a massive boat that could hold representative samples of millions of species and transport them and keep them alive and from destroying eachother, to land on a mountain top and disperse them all over the globe from there. It's up there with Santa visiting all the chimneys on Christmas eve, it's on par with Easter Bunnies and Tooth Fairies and goblins and all the dramas of childhood. It's quite remarkable to see so many alleged adults who maintain a massive part of their lives in an infantile state. I don't think it's a character flaw, I think it's a toxic subculture that lives parasitically off of healthier greater societies. It's not to your credit that you seek to perpetuate it.

The Bible can be a body of literature that can be understood in historical and scientific perspective but more often it has been weaponized for intracultural advantage. I won't honor that, any more than I will respect cultic approaches to the Bible, the Q'ran, the Urantia Book or The Origin of Species. :wink:

Someday soon you will die and after that comes judgement. As you grow old you will see how time seems so fleeting, and you will find no comfort from your works. I point to the manger and you and your sort points to Santa. I point to the cross and you the Easter Bunny. I point to eternity and you point to fairies, aliens, and zombies. I point to the savior and you are trying to save yourself. I would suggest the you are infantile when one weighs your standards against those of the LORD. :ugeek:


Threatening me with the old hellfire. How predictable. When the Puritans arrived in America, fleeing persecution, the first thing they did was start persecuting other Christians. Your fabulous Christians burned other Christians at the stake because they disagreed about the nature of the Trinity.

I'm infantile? I deal with adult problems and find solutions. You cling to childhood and call it holy. My "sort" create new things, we explore the universe, we learn new knowledge. You prefer to be as a child forever crying to daddy to save you.

You know the standards of the Lord? Ah, the arrogance. You, a person who cannot explain the book you're copying, understand the mind and plans and history of a supreme being that created the universe. You, a person without the most basic understanding of science, hypocritically use science and benefit from it while denying it. So we can also add dishonesty and hypocrisy to the "standards of the Lord".

Your book, as used by you, is an ugly thing. It is a hammer to crush dissent and an excuse for failures, a smokescreen and a mask. You long for a time when it was supreme, a hunger for your own Christian Sharia where the scholars and scientists and doctors and historians fear the rule of the self-appointed prophets and saints and messiahs. A country where the Constitution and democracy are discarded so that King Jesus can rule and all knees will bend to his "representatives". We've seen this movie before. It's a horror show and it ends in madness and blood. Just the kind of world, just the kind of "standards" that guarantee endless conflict and war, that the founders of America learned from and sought to avoid.

And so, dear Nipper, you must get used to my "sort". You have a sock puppet God to try and threaten us with but it is forever a bluff and we know it. Just like all the other cults and religions have bluffed. Do you know that there are over 20,000 denominations of Christianity? No, you didn't. Nor can you grasp the implications of that. Nor will you try. It's okay, your book is almost done and you've changed nothing. It has provided an opportunity to show others that your fetish is not scholarship or knowledge.

Rest assured that you will find my "sort" out there questioning your book and your stories and excuses. They will laugh at your empty curses and threats too. And those looking on will realize how small and pathetic the great GOD truly is and always was. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:10 pm 
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Revelation 17:1-18

Then one of the angels with the seven bowls came to me and said, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is sitting by many waters.

The rulers of the earth went whoring with her, and the people living on earth have become drunk from the wine of her whoring.”

He carried me off spiritually to a desert, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast filled with blasphemous names having heads and horns.

This woman was dressed in purple and scarlet and glittered with gold, precious stones and pearls. In her hand was a gold cup filled with obscene and filthy things produced by her whoring.

On her forehead was written a name with a hidden meaning, BABYLON THE GREAT MOTHER OF WHORES AND OF THE EARTH’S OBSCENITIES

I saw the woman drunk from the blood of God’s people, that is, from the blood of the people testifying of Jesus.

On seeing her, I was totally astounded.

Then the angel asked me, “Why are you shocked? I will tell you the hidden meaning of the woman and of the beast with 7 heads and 10 horns carrying her.

The beast you observed existed previously, presently is not, and will come up from the Abyss ---- on its way to destruction. The people living on earth whose names have not been written in the Book of Life since the founding of the world will be shocked to see the beast that once was, now is not, but is to appear.

This calls for some deep thinking: the 7 heads are 7 hills on which the woman is sitting; also they represent 7 rulers —

5 have fallen, 1 is presently living and the other is yet to arrive; and when he finally arrives, he must stay only a little while.

The beast which once was and now is not is an 8th ruler. It originates from the 7 and is on its way to destruction.

The 10 horns you observed are 10 rulers who have not yet begun to rule, but they receive power as rulers for one hour, along with the beast.

They are like minded, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast.

They will go to war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will defeat them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are called, chosen and faithful will overcome along with Him.”

Then he said to me, “The waters that you observed, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, crowds, nations and languages.

As for the 10 horns that you saw and the beast, they will hate the whore, bring her to ruin, leave her naked, eat her flesh and consume her with fire.

For God put it in their hearts to do what will fulfill His purpose, that is, to be of one mind and give their kingdom to the beast until God’s words have been fulfilled.

And the woman you observed is the great city that lords over the rulers of the earth.”


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And there came one of the seven messengers, who were having the seven vials, and he spake with me, saying to me, `Come, I will shew to thee the judgment of the great whore, who is sitting upon the many waters,

2 with whom the kings of the earth did commit whoredom; and made drunk from the wine of her whoredom were those inhabiting the earth;'

3 and he carried me away to a wilderness in the Spirit, and I saw a woman sitting upon a scarlet-coloured beast, full of names of evil-speaking, having seven heads and ten horns,

4 and the woman was arrayed with purple and scarlet-colour, and gilded with gold, and precious stone, and pearls, having a golden cup in her
hand full of abominations and uncleanness of her whoredom,

5 and upon her forehead was a name written: `Secret, Babylon the Great, the Mother of the Whores, and the Abominations of the earth.'

6 And I saw the woman drunken from the blood of the saints, and from the blood of the witnesses of Jesus, and I did wonder -- having seen her -- with great wonder;

7 and the messenger said to me, `Wherefore didst thou wonder? I -- I will tell thee the secret of the woman and of the beast that [is] carrying her, which hath the seven heads and the ten horns.

8 `The beast that thou didst see: it was, and it is not; and it is about to come up out of the abyss, and to go away to destruction, and wonder
shall those dwelling upon the earth, whose names have not been written upon the scroll of the life from the foundation of the world, beholding the beast that was, and is not, although it is.

9 `Here [is] the mind that is having wisdom; the seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman doth sit,

10 and there are seven kings, the five did fall, and the one is, the other did not yet come, and when he may come, it behoveth him to remain a little time;

11 and the beast that was, and is not, he also is eighth, and out of the seven he is, and to destruction he doth go away.

12 `And the ten horns that thou sawest, are ten kings, who a kingdom did not yet receive, but authority as kings the same hour do receive with the beast,

13 these have one mind, and their own power and authority to the beast they shall give over;

14 these with the Lamb shall make war, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because Lord of lords he is, and King of kings, and those with him are called, and choice, and stedfast.'

15 And he saith to me, `The waters that thou didst see, where the whore doth sit, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues;'

16 and the ten horns that thou didst see upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and shall burn her in fire,

17 for God did give into their hearts to do its mind, and to make one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast till the sayings of God may be complete,

18 and the woman that thou didst see is the great city that is having reign over the kings of the land.'


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:49 pm 
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four day and we are free of your squandermania of bandwidth and storage

what next?

hebrew? latin? greek?
i am certain you know them all --- and produce us your own LITERAL translations

three times 230 pages...

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Six months after its publication Soviet authorities banned the book and attempted to remove it from libraries and bookshops.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:00 pm 
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Revelation 18:1-24

Following this, I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, the earth was lit up by his splendor.

He cried out loudly, “She has collapsed! Collapsed ! Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons, a prison for every unclean spirit, a prison for every unclean, hated bird.

“For all the nations have consumed the wine of God’s wrath brought about by her whoring. Absolutely, the rulers of the earth went whoring with her, and from her unrestrained love of luxury the world’s businessmen have become rich.”

Then I heard another voice out of heaven proclaim: “My people, come out of her, so that you will not share in her sins, and you will not be infected by her plagues,

For her sins are massive pile up to heaven, and God has remembered her crimes.

“Dish out to her as she dished out to others! Pay her back double for her deeds! Use the cup in which she has brewed to brew her a double-sized drink!

“Give her as much torment and sorrow as the glory and luxury she consumed for herself! For in her heart she says, ‘I sit a queen — I'm not a widow, I will never know sorrow.’

“Therefore, her plagues will arrive in a single day — death, sorrow and famine; and she will be consumed with fire, because the Lord, God, her Judge, is mighty”

The rulers of the earth who went whoring with her and shared her luxury will cry and weep over her when they see the smoke as she burns.

Standing at a distance, for fear of her torment, they will say, “Oh no! The great city! Babylon, the mighty city! In a single hour your judgment has arrived!”

The world’s businessmen weep and mourn over her, because no one is buying their merchandise ever again —

stocks of gold and silver, gems and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, all rare woods, all ivory goods, all kinds of things made of scented wood, brass, iron and marble;

cinnamon, cardamom, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, flour, grain, cattle, sheep, horses, chariots — and bodies — and people’s souls.

The fruits you lusted for with all your heart have gone! All the luxury and flashiness have been destroyed, never to return!

The sellers of these things, who got rich from her, will stand at a distance, for fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,

and saying, “Oh no! The great city used to wear fine linen, purple and scarlet! She glittered with gold, precious stones and pearls!

Such great wealth — in a single hour, all gone! All the ship masters, passengers, sailors and everyone making his living from the sea stood at a distance

and cried out when they saw the smoke as she burned, “What city was like that great city?”

And they threw dust on their heads as they wept and mourned, saying, “Oh no! The great city! The abundance of her wealth made all the ship owners rich! In a single hour she is destroyed!”

Rejoice over her, heaven! Rejoice, people of God, apostles and prophets! For in judging her, God has vindicated you.

Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a giant millstone, and hurled it into the sea, saying, “With violence like this will the great city Babylon be hurled down, never to be discovered again!

The sound of harpists and musicians, flute-players and trumpeters will never again be heard in you. No worker of any trade will ever again be found in you, the sound of a mill will never again be heard in you,

the light of a lamp will never again enlighten you, the voice of bridegroom and bride will never again be heard in you. For your businessmen were the most powerful on earth, all the gentiles were taken in under your magic spell.

In her was discovered the blood of prophets and God’s people, in fact, of all who have ever been slaughtered on earth!”

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And after these things I saw another messenger coming down out of the heaven, having great authority, and the earth was lightened from his glory,

2 and he did cry in might -- a great voice, saying, `Fall, fall did Babylon the great, and she became a habitation of demons, and a hold of every unclean spirit, and a hold of every unclean and hateful bird,

3 because of the wine of the wrath of her whoredom have all the nations drunk, and the kings of the earth with her did commit whoredom, and merchants of the earth from the power of her revel were made rich.

4 And I heard another voice out of the heaven, saying, `Come forth out of her, My people, that ye may not partake with her sins, and that ye may not receive of her plagues,

5 because her sins did follow -- unto the heaven, and God did remember her unrighteousness.

6 Render to her as also she did render to you, and double to her doubles according to her works; in the cup that she did mingle mingle to her double.

7 `As much as she did glorify herself and did revel, so much torment and sorrow give to her, because in her heart she saith, I sit a queen, and a widow I am not, and sorrow I shall not see;

8 because of this, in one day, shall come her plagues, death, and sorrow, and famine; and in fire she shall be utterly burned, because strong [is] the Lord God who is judging her;

9 and weep over her, and smite themselves for her, shall the kings of the earth, who with her did commit whoredom and did revel, when they may see the smoke of her burning,

10 from afar having stood because of the fear of her torment, saying, Wo, wo, the great city! Babylon, the strong city! because in one hour did come thy judgment.

11 `And the merchants of the earth shall weep and sorrow over her, because their lading no one doth buy any more;

12 lading of gold, and silver, and precious stone, and pearl, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyne wood, and every vessel of ivory, and every vessel of most precious wood, and brass, and iron, and marble,

13 and cinnamon, and odours, and ointment, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and cattle, and sheep, and of horses, and of chariots, and of bodies and souls of men.

14 `And the fruits of the desire of thy soul did go away from thee, and all things -- the dainty and the bright -- did go away from thee, and no more at all mayest thou find them.

15 The merchants of these things, who were made rich by her, far off shall stand because of the fear of her torment, weeping, and sorrowing,

16 and saying, Wo, wo, the great city, that was arrayed with fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and gilded in gold, and precious stone, and pearls -- because in one hour so much riches were made waste!

17 `And every shipmaster, and all the company upon the ships, and sailors, and as many as work the sea, far off stood,

18 and were crying, seeing the smoke of her burning, saying, What [city is] like to the great city?

19 and they did cast dust upon their heads, and were crying out, weeping and sorrowing, saying, Wo, wo, the great city! in which were made rich all having ships in the sea, out of her costliness -- for in one hour was she made waste.

20 `Be glad over her, O heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets, because God did judge your judgment of her!'

21 And one strong messenger did take up a stone as a great millstone, and did cast [it] to the sea, saying, `Thus with violence shall Babylon be cast, the great city, and may not be found any more at all;

22 and voice of harpers, and musicians, and pipers, and trumpeters, may not be heard at all in thee any more; and any artizan of any art may not be found at all in thee any more; and noise of a millstone may not be heard at all in thee any more;

23 and light of a lamp may not shine at all in thee any more; and voice of bridegroom and of bride may not be heard at all in thee any more; because thy merchants were the great ones of the earth, because in thy sorcery were all the nations led astray,

24 and in her blood of prophets and of saints was found, and of all those who have been slain on the earth.'


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:01 am 
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The writer loves to dwell on the idea of Babylon collapsing. Of course it collapsed, as did Rome and all other governments extant at the time. It's fascinating how worldly and political all this is, though dressed up in gaudy allegory. Kind of like a political cartoon in words, rather grotesque and polemical.

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:51 am 
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Maksutov wrote:
The writer loves to dwell on the idea of Babylon collapsing. Of course it collapsed, as did Rome and all other governments extant at the time. It's fascinating how worldly and political all this is, though dressed up in gaudy allegory. Kind of like a political cartoon in words, rather grotesque and polemical.

Maksutov,
Of course it is worldly and political.You were looking for something else?
Gaudy? I can see that, bit over the top? Style made it memorable however.(like a political cartoon)


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:59 am 
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huckelberry wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
The writer loves to dwell on the idea of Babylon collapsing. Of course it collapsed, as did Rome and all other governments extant at the time. It's fascinating how worldly and political all this is, though dressed up in gaudy allegory. Kind of like a political cartoon in words, rather grotesque and polemical.

Maksutov,
Of course it is worldly and political.You were looking for something else?
Gaudy? I can see that, bit over the top? Style made it memorable however.(like a political cartoon)


When you're told that a book is the greatest book on earth and God's Word, you develop some expectations. :lol:

Well, I've been told that it has to do with spiritual matters, but really, it's a political commercial, and an unconvincing and incoherent one at that. Once again we see an infinite being supposedly siding with one jealous and petty little tribe against another. My God can beat up your God. Only tradition and conditioning have managed to imbue it with greater significance. It's like reading the letters to the editor in an old newspaper. The people are all dead and the issues faded away into irrelevance. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:42 pm 
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Links to Revelation Chapters 19 and 20 from the King James Version:

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Re ... hapter-19/

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Re ... hapter-20/



From The New King James Version:

Revelation 20 (NKJV)

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.


Footnotes:

Revelation 20:4 M-Text reads the.
Revelation 20:10 NU-Text and M-Text add also.
Revelation 20:12 NU-Text and M-Text read the throne.
Revelation 20:14 NU-Text and M-Text add the lake of fire.




The word 'dragon' is found only in the Book of Revelation within the Bible.


Last edited by Brackite on Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:57 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:

Well, I've been told that it has to do with spiritual matters, but really, it's a political commercial, and an unconvincing and incoherent one at that. Once again we see an infinite being supposedly siding with one jealous and petty little tribe against another. My God can beat up your God. Only tradition and conditioning have managed to imbue it with greater significance. It's like reading the letters to the editor in an old newspaper. The people are all dead and the issues faded away into irrelevance.

Maksutov,
I found myself wondering if there was any desire to discuss whether there was a difference between political and spiritual.Probably a significant difference if political means two or more parties at war with each other as we have been treated to in US recent decades. On the other hand if political is the process people use to work out how they live together in groups it might be not only be essential to people's physical survival but their spirituality as well. But this other version, my petty little Democratic or Republican tribe can beat yours, does intrude a lot.

I do not think that the tribal thing is in view in Revelations. Instead Christianity is looking to one God who is the God of all people and is concerned with all peoples. Christianity carries a criticism of all tribes for the things they do creating violence. It is an offer to leave the tribal warfare .

Now I realize and you as well, that the allure of my tribe against your tribe politics has repeatedly overwhelmed Christianity. It is possible you would react to my proposed image with a, you are kidding me, reaction. I have wondered a few times. I can admit as well that I may consider that Revelations may have a mixture of both versions of politics. I do not think it is the strongest book in the New Testament.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:29 pm 
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huckelberry wrote:
I do not think it is the strongest book in the New Testament.


I think it would be the most fun to do a movie of. Lots of CGI. Probably not for kids. :lol:

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