Bible verse by verse

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_Maksutov
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Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _Maksutov »

LittleNipper wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
The Bible defining itself is supremely illogical and leads you to worship of the Bible. Circular reasoning and speculation are bad thinking. And the fruits of this disorderly mess? Two thousand years of war and genocide. The events have unfolded just as they would if Jesus were a mortal man whose story was co-opted and deployed by a vast militant empire to assist in pacifying its conquests and consolidating power. That is the story that makes the most sense and has the most evidence.


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with GOD and the Word was God ----- and the Word became flesh and dwelt among men. I hold the Word of God as the only instruction manual from GOD. If I want to hear what God has to say, all I have to do is prayerfully read the Bible. The only logical reason anyone would want to annihilate the Jews is to destroy biblical prophecy. No Jews --- no Jesus. No Jews no rebuilding of their Temple. No rebuilding of the Temple ---- no return of Christ. Satan is not happy!


Nothing of what you said is historical or coherent. You're conflating theology created by a man who never met Jesus and therefore made up everything about him (Paul) with the ideas of the Jews who never accepted Jesus, and use a silly Satan bogeyman to try to gloss over the absurdities. And again you refuse to acknowledge the real history of sectarian division and inquisitions that resulted from this mess. I guess it's too much to expect you to actually think about where the Bible came from since you need to worship it so desperately. :wink:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_huckelberry
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Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _huckelberry »

LittleNipper wrote:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with GOD and the Word was God ----- and the Word became flesh and dwelt among men. I hold the Word of God as the only instruction manual from GOD. If I want to hear what God has to say, all I have to do is prayerfully read the Bible. The only logical reason anyone would want to annihilate the Jews is to destroy biblical prophecy. No Jews --- no Jesus. No Jews no rebuilding of their Temple. No rebuilding of the Temple ---- no return of Christ. Satan is not happy!


Nipper, I was thinking Maksutov's comment is vague and so general it is difficult to reply to. Perhaps if you try to clarify your end it might help discussion.

I do not know what you meant by mentioning people annihilating the Jews. Who are you speaking of?. I am sure Islamic people do not wish to annihilate Jews though a sizeable number want to remove the Jewish state of Israel.

That Jesus cannot or will not return without a rebuilding of a temple is bizarre to my ears. I am not familiar with that end time picture. Does it puzzle you that some many different end time scenarios are created by reading Gods infallible word?

I am quite confident that John did not mean that the Bible became flesh. You probably do not mean that either but your words kind of sound that way.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
_huckelberry
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Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _huckelberry »

Maksutov wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with GOD and the Word was God ----- and the Word became flesh and dwelt among men. I hold the Word of God as the only instruction manual from GOD. If I want to hear what God has to say, all I have to do is prayerfully read the Bible. The only logical reason anyone would want to annihilate the Jews is to destroy biblical prophecy. No Jews --- no Jesus. No Jews no rebuilding of their Temple. No rebuilding of the Temple ---- no return of Christ. Satan is not happy!


Nothing of what you said is historical or coherent. You're conflating theology created by a man who never met Jesus and therefore made up everything about him (Paul) with the ideas of the Jews who never accepted Jesus, and use a silly Satan bogeyman to try to gloss over the absurdities. And again you refuse to acknowledge the real history of sectarian division and inquisitions that resulted from this mess. I guess it's too much to expect you to actually think about where the Bible came from since you need to worship it so desperately. :wink:


Maksutov, Nipper's quote is not from Paul. It is theology from a nonPaulin community.
It hardly follows that because Paul did not meet Jesus during Jesus life that he made everything up about him.
Jesus and Paul and John were all Jews , why would it be odd to involve the older traditions(later called the Old Testament) that these people held to as part of their story?

I believe you are pushing the questions , why trust the Bible and how can you be sure the right things have been included or left out? Those seem reasonable questions to me.
_Maksutov
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Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _Maksutov »

huckelberry wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
Nothing of what you said is historical or coherent. You're conflating theology created by a man who never met Jesus and therefore made up everything about him (Paul) with the ideas of the Jews who never accepted Jesus, and use a silly Satan bogeyman to try to gloss over the absurdities. And again you refuse to acknowledge the real history of sectarian division and inquisitions that resulted from this mess. I guess it's too much to expect you to actually think about where the Bible came from since you need to worship it so desperately. :wink:


Maksutov, Nipper's quote is not from Paul. It is theology from a nonPaulin community.
It hardly follows that because Paul did not meet Jesus during Jesus life that he made everything up about him.
Jesus and Paul and John were all Jews , why would it be odd to involve the older traditions(later called the Old Testament) that these people held to as part of their story?

I believe you are pushing the questions , why trust the Bible and how can you be sure the right things have been included or left out? Those seem reasonable questions to me.


Any time Satan is introduced into an argument, the arguer has lost.

Paul was the major inventor of Christology. I will stand by that. He told us little about Jesus the man but had all sorts of things to say about the Christ. Those things came out of his own head and were abhorrent to the Jews. Read the Talmudic commentaries.

The overarching point that I am trying to make with Nipper is that there is no single view of Christ, Christianity, or the New Testament/Bible. There are thousands of perspectives and they often differ. No one owns the Bible or owns Jesus, no matter how they assert their claim. The worship of the Bible that Nipper personifies is destructive to the good parts of the Christian legacy and can only lead to fanaticism. :wink:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_huckelberry
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Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _huckelberry »

Maksutov wrote:
Any time Satan is introduced into an argument, the arguer has lost.

Paul was the major inventor of Christology. I will stand by that. He told us little about Jesus the man but had all sorts of things to say about the Christ. Those things came out of his own head and were abhorrent to the Jews. Read the Talmudic commentaries.

The overarching point that I am trying to make with Nipper is that there is no single view of Christ, Christianity, or the New Testament/Bible. There are thousands of perspectives and they often differ. No one owns the Bible or owns Jesus, no matter how they assert their claim. The worship of the Bible that Nipper personifies is destructive to the good parts of the Christian legacy and can only lead to fanaticism. :wink:


Muksutov, I can see the idea that there are multiple perspectives on the Bible and which come out of the Bible. If a person is going to read and use the book it makes sense to me to be aware of that.It might make sense to try to understand oneself and how you read it.

I realize that there are reasons you may view Paul the way you state. I see a broader variety of people contributing to the development of Christian views. There is enough historical uncertainty that perhaps arguing the point is guaranteed to be unresolved.

As an aside I did not understand how Nippers mention of Satan was suppose to fit into his comments, (?) Other wise his comments seem to be a good illustration of the multiplicity and uncertainties which attend Bible interpretation.
_LittleNipper
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Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _LittleNipper »

Sorry, I made a typo... It should have been "Satan would be VERY happy!" Satan has been trying to undermine the Bible, by making it appear foolish and in error. Satan was behind the murder of the babies in Bethlehem in an effort to get Jesus when he appeared the most vulnerable. There are Biblical events where the Jews were nearly destroyed. I believe that the most recent event involving Nazi Germany is just a continuation of this effort to discredit and attempt to destroy the validity of the Bible. The Bible is TOTALLY in agreement and coherent. I see nothing wrong with that.
_LittleNipper
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Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _LittleNipper »

1 Peter 2:1-25

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 Having put aside, then, all evil, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envyings, and all evil speakings,

2 as new-born babes the word's pure milk desire ye, that in it ye may grow,

3 if so be ye did taste that the Lord [is] gracious,

4 to whom coming -- a living stone -- by men, indeed, having been disapproved of, but with God choice, precious,

5 and ye yourselves, as living stones, are built up, a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore, also, it is contained in the Writing: `Lo, I lay in Zion a chief corner-stone, choice, precious, and he who is believing on him may not be put to shame;'

7 to you, then, who are believing [is] the preciousness; and to the unbelieving, a stone that the builders disapproved of, this one did become for the head of a corner,

8 and a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence -- who are stumbling at the word, being unbelieving, -- to which also they were set;

9 and ye [are] a choice race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people acquired, that the excellences ye may shew forth of Him who out of darkness did call you to His wondrous light;

10 who [were] once not a people, and [are] now the people of God; who had not found kindness, and now have found kindness.

11 Beloved, I call upon [you], as strangers and sojourners, to keep from the fleshly desires, that war against the soul,

12 having your behaviour among the nations right, that in that which they speak against you as evil-doers, of the good works having beheld, they may glorify God in a day of inspection.

13 Be subject, then, to every human creation, because of the Lord, whether to a king, as the highest,

14 whether to governors, as to those sent through him, for punishment, indeed, of evil-doers, and a praise of those doing good;

15 because, so is the will of God, doing good, to put to silence the ignorance of the foolish men;

16 as free, and not having the freedom as the cloak of the evil, but as servants of God;

17 to all give ye honour; the brotherhood love ye; God fear ye; the king honour ye.

18 The domestics! be subjecting yourselves in all fear to the masters, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the cross;

19 for this [is] gracious, if because of conscience toward God any one doth endure sorrows, suffering unrighteously;

20 for what renown [is it], if sinning and being buffeted, ye do endure [it]? but if, doing good and suffering [for it], ye do endure, this [is] gracious with God,

21 for to this ye were called, because Christ also did suffer for you, leaving to you an example, that ye may follow his steps,

22 who did not commit sin, nor was guile found in his mouth,

23 who being reviled -- was not reviling again, suffering -- was not threatening, and was committing himself to Him who is judging righteously,

24 who our sins himself did bear in his body, upon the tree, that to the sins having died, to the righteousness we may live; by whose stripes ye were healed,

25 for ye were as sheep going astray, but ye turned back now to the shepherd and overseer of your souls.
_LittleNipper
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Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _LittleNipper »

1 Peter 2:1-25

Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice, deceit, hypocrisy and envy, and of all the ways of badmouthing people.

But be like newborn babies, thirsty for the pure milk of the Word; so that by it, you may mature into deliverance.

For you realize that the Lord is good.

As you come to Him, the living stone, rejected by man but chosen by God and precious to Him,

you yourselves, as living stones, are being constructed into a spiritual house to be priests set apart for God offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to Him through Jesus the Messiah.

This is why the Law says, “Look! I am laying in Zion a stone, a select precious cornerstone; and whoever rests His faith on it will certainly not be humiliated.”

Now to you who keep trusting, He is precious. But to those who are not trusting, “The very stone that the builders rejected has become the keystone”;

also he is a stone that will make people trip, a rock over which they will fall. They are stumbling at the Word, disobeying it — as had been foreordained.

But you are a selected people, the King’s priests, a holy nation, a people for God to have! Why? ISo that you can declare the praises of the One who called you out of darkness into His wonderful light.

Once you were not grouped together, but now you are God’s people; before, you had not received mercy, but now you have gained mercy.

Dear friends, I urge you as aliens and temporary residents (here) not to give in to the desires of your old nature, which keeps hounding you;

but to live such good lives among the pagans that even though they now speak against you as evil-doers, they will, as a result of seeing your good actions, give glory to God on the Day of His coming.

For the sake of the Lord, submit yourselves to every human authority — whether to the emperor as being supreme,

or to governors as being sent by Him to punish wrongdoers and praise those who do good.

For it is God’s will that your good behavior should silence the ignorant gossip of foolish people.

Submit as people who are free, but do not let your freedom serve as an excuse for evil; rather, submit as God’s slaves.

Be respectful to all — keep loving the brotherhood, fearing God and honoring the emperor.

Household servants, submit yourselves to your masters, showing them full respect — and not only those who are kind and considerate, but also those who are harsh.

For it is a grace when someone, because he is mindful of God, bears up under the pain of undeserved punishment.

For what value is there in bearing up under a beating you deserve for being in the wrong? But if you bear up under punishment, even though you have done what is right, God looks on it favorably.

In fact, this is what you were called to; because the Messiah also suffered, on your behalf, leaving an example so that you should follow along His path.

“He committed no sin, nor was any deceit found on His lips.”

When He was insulted, He didn’t retaliate with insults. When He suffered, He didn’t threaten, but handed them over to Him who judges justly.

He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that we might die to our sins and live for righteousness. By His wounds you were healed.

For you were once like sheep gone astray, but now you have turned to the Shepherd, who protects you.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 Having put aside, then, all evil, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envyings, and all evil speakings,

2 as new-born babes the word's pure milk desire ye, that in it ye may grow,

3 if so be ye did taste that the Lord [is] gracious,

4 to whom coming -- a living stone -- by men, indeed, having been disapproved of, but with God choice, precious,

5 and ye yourselves, as living stones, are built up, a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore, also, it is contained in the Writing: `Lo, I lay in Zion a chief corner-stone, choice, precious, and he who is believing on him may not be put to shame;'

7 to you, then, who are believing [is] the preciousness; and to the unbelieving, a stone that the builders disapproved of, this one did become for the head of a corner,

8 and a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence -- who are stumbling at the word, being unbelieving, -- to which also they were set;

9 and ye [are] a choice race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people acquired, that the excellences ye may shew forth of Him who out of darkness did call you to His wondrous light;

10 who [were] once not a people, and [are] now the people of God; who had not found kindness, and now have found kindness.

11 Beloved, I call upon [you], as strangers and sojourners, to keep from the fleshly desires, that war against the soul,

12 having your behaviour among the nations right, that in that which they speak against you as evil-doers, of the good works having beheld, they may glorify God in a day of inspection.

13 Be subject, then, to every human creation, because of the Lord, whether to a king, as the highest,

14 whether to governors, as to those sent through him, for punishment, indeed, of evil-doers, and a praise of those doing good;

15 because, so is the will of God, doing good, to put to silence the ignorance of the foolish men;

16 as free, and not having the freedom as the cloak of the evil, but as servants of God;

17 to all give ye honour; the brotherhood love ye; God fear ye; the king honour ye.

18 The domestics! be subjecting yourselves in all fear to the masters, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the cross;

19 for this [is] gracious, if because of conscience toward God any one doth endure sorrows, suffering unrighteously;

20 for what renown [is it], if sinning and being buffeted, ye do endure [it]? but if, doing good and suffering [for it], ye do endure, this [is] gracious with God,

21 for to this ye were called, because Christ also did suffer for you, leaving to you an example, that ye may follow his steps,

22 who did not commit sin, nor was guile found in his mouth,

23 who being reviled -- was not reviling again, suffering -- was not threatening, and was committing himself to Him who is judging righteously,

24 who our sins himself did bear in his body, upon the tree, that to the sins having died, to the righteousness we may live; by whose stripes ye were healed,

25 for ye were as sheep going astray, but ye turned back now to the shepherd and overseer of your souls.
_Maksutov
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Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _Maksutov »

LittleNipper wrote: I believe that the most recent event involving Nazi Germany is just a continuation of this effort to discredit and attempt to destroy the validity of the Bible. The Bible is TOTALLY in agreement and coherent. I see nothing wrong with that.



What did the Nazis have to do with discrediting the Bible? You think that's what Mein Kampf was about?

Check this out:

The population of Germany in 1933 was around 60 million. Almost all Germans were Christian, belonging either to the Roman Catholic (ca. 20 million members) or the Protestant (ca. 40 million members) churches. The Jewish community in Germany in 1933 was less than 1% of the total population of the country.

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.ph ... d=10005206

These people were Bible followers, not out to attack it. :rolleyes:

Do you understand what "coherent" means?

So you're clueless about the 20th century but understand late bronze and early iron age civilizations? And can dismiss 95% of modern science based on your vast knowledge? :lol:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_LittleNipper
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Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Bible verse by verse

Post by _LittleNipper »

Maksutov wrote:
LittleNipper wrote: I believe that the most recent event involving Nazi Germany is just a continuation of this effort to discredit and attempt to destroy the validity of the Bible. The Bible is TOTALLY in agreement and coherent. I see nothing wrong with that.



What did the Nazis have to do with discrediting the Bible? You think that's what Mein Kampf was about?

Check this out:

The population of Germany in 1933 was around 60 million. Almost all Germans were Christian, belonging either to the Roman Catholic (ca. 20 million members) or the Protestant (ca. 40 million members) churches. The Jewish community in Germany in 1933 was less than 1% of the total population of the country.

https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.ph ... d=10005206

These people were Bible followers, not out to attack it. :rolleyes:


Do you understand what "coherent" means?

So you're clueless about the 20th century but understand late bronze and early iron age civilizations? And can dismiss 95% of modern science based on your vast knowledge? :lol:

The Nazis were out to destroy the Jews. If they accomplished that feat, they would have voided the prophetic message surrounding the rebirth of the nation of Israel, and that would have discredited the Bible. So in reality you do not see the coherency of the Bible. You have no clue about Bible prophecy and the Jews. Frankly, you don't understand what was at stake with regard to Hitler's final solution. You don't understand that GOD never voided His promise to Abraham and the nation of Israel. GOD never intended to replace Israel with the Church (the body of ALL Believers). The Church was grafted onto Israel and not visa versa. The Lutheran church and the Catholic church believe that they totally replace Israel. GOD intended to make Israel jealous with the CHURCH and eventually brings Israel back into His fold during the TRIBULATION! I will not accept any pseudo science that ignores GOD and hides behind the theory it claims and presents as fact. I don't know anything --- GOD knows everything. And I trust in HIM :ugeek:
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