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 Post subject: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:47 am 
God

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:15 am
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...what influence will it have on the Church?

When all the presentations have been made, the networking concluded. Once the sound of backs being appreciatively slapped and the polite guffaws have died away. What? What will have been the point to it all?

My question really is about FAIR's credibility - does the Church hold FAIR in a positive light?

I guess this will be shown by how much of the 'game changing' information presented finds it's way onto LDS.org and into the teaching manuals and conference talks and Ensigns of the future.

As a starting point, what has been influenced so far by the contents of previous FAIR conferences?

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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:34 pm 
Nursery
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jon wrote:
...what influence will it have on the Church?

My question really is about FAIR's credibility - does the Church hold FAIR in a positive light?

As a starting point, what has been influenced so far by the contents of previous FAIR conferences?



Scott Lloyd of the Church-owned Deseret News had mentioned the likelihood that three or four reporters would be covering the conference.

In my own experience, most Latter-day Saints are not all that interested in apologetics, and Mormon Studies in general. Their understanding of early Mormon history is limited - usually to Primary-level correlated materials and Gerald Lund novels. As an organization, the Church has done very little with FAIR. Though writers like Mike Ash and Dan Peterson are given a voice in church-sponsored publications, this should not be understood as a formal endorsement of FAIR by the Church. That is not to say however, that the LDS Church holds FAIR in a negative light either.

I don't think it is the goal of FAIR to influence the Church, but rather find ways to sustain belief against criticisms of it. Church employees have in the past, and continue to speak at FAIR Conferences. Presenters on FAIR topics regularly publish in LDS Church-related presses and their books are readily accessible at any LDS bookstore.

Church historians in particular, maintain good relationships with many FAIR participants and have even participated themselves. LDS apostles have published material through the Maxwell Institute and will likely continue to do so. The amicable relationship between the NAMI and FAIR is unmistakeable, though neither share formal connections with each other.

I would venture to say that the Church is much more open to discussing historical issues at least in part because of work done by FAIR contributors and the rise of the New Mormon History. More church members know about FAIR than they ever have in the past. FAIR presenters regularly conduct firesides at LDS podiums (something not afforded to Rodney Meldrum after it was discovered he was selling his books in foyers). The recent German FAIR Conference was conducted in an LDS Chapel with the consent of local leaders who were happy to see Mormon scholars engaging relatively controversial and troubling issues for Church members there. Discussions by Gene Sessions and Rick Turley have led to Mormons being much more open about the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

Etc...etc...etc.

This year's conference will feature two individuals who have in the past, been openly vocal about their opposition to LDS apologetic approaches to Church History - Don Bradley and Newell Bringhurst.

_________________
"'Dislike' him? What would I do without him! [Daniel Peterson] completes me."
- Doctor Scratch, Loquacious Witness: Scratch on Himself, Others, and More About Himself, (Salt Lake City: Cassius University Press, 2011), 57-58.


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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:42 pm 
jon wrote:
...what influence will it have on the Church?

When all the presentations have been made, the networking concluded. Once the sound of backs being appreciatively slapped and the polite guffaws have died away. What? What will have been the point to it all?


Well, gee, with that we shouldn't endeavor to do anything -- what's the point of it all? What's the point of you posting here? What effect will it have on the Church?


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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:47 am 
God

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 1464
Simon Belmont wrote:
jon wrote:
...what influence will it have on the Church?

When all the presentations have been made, the networking concluded. Once the sound of backs being appreciatively slapped and the polite guffaws have died away. What? What will have been the point to it all?


Well, gee, with that we shouldn't endeavor to do anything -- what's the point of it all? What's the point of you posting here? What effect will it have on the Church?


Yes Simon, those were the questions I was asking, well parroted.
Now go and get yourself some milk and a cookie whilst the grown ups answer them...

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'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:52 am 
Nursery
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:25 pm
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jon wrote:
...what influence will it have on the Church?
My question really is about FAIR's credibility - does the Church hold FAIR in a positive light?



Quote:
SALT LAKE CITY (AP) — With the Mormon church increasingly in the national spotlight, including a hit Mormon-themed Broadway musical and two members seeking the White House, a nonprofit group is seeking to set the record straight about the faith's beliefs.

The group has launched the Mormon Defense League in an effort to help journalists, political operatives and others who comment on The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints better understand the religion.

The goal is to dispel myths and explain the history, theology and other aspects of the church, co-founder Scott Gordon said.

The idea for the league grew out of what Gordon said were volumes of misinformation about the church that circulated in 2008 when Mormon Mitt Romney sought the GOP presidential nomination.

"What we've seen is that as the church becomes more and more in the limelight, people say and report things that are often bigoted or false," Gordon said. "We wanted to provide an organization that could assist journalists and others get the story right and offer some gentle correction when they didn't."

The all-volunteer organization is an extension the Foundation for Apologetic Information & Research, or FAIR, which defends Mormon beliefs to critics. Gordon, FAIR's president since 2001, announced plans for the league Thursday during the opening session of FAIR's 13th annual conference in Sandy.

In recent years, the Utah-based church, which has more than 14 million members worldwide, has been increasingly in the spotlight. Romney is again seeking the GOP presidential nomination, as is former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman. Broadway is home to the Tony Award-winning "Book of Mormon" musical, and the church played a central role in a 2008 political battle over gay marriage in California.

Misinformation or misperceptions about Mormonism — including that faithful Latter-day Saints wear "magic underwear" or still practice polygamy — stem from a lack of understanding of the church's history, doctrine and culture, Gordon said.

He said a team of Mormon Defense League volunteers will post articles and explainers to the organization's website, MLD.org; will answer questions through email exchanges or interviews; and will monitor news about the church to watch for missteps.

"If you come out with an article that says Mormons believe Jesus and Satan are brothers, we're going to say, 'OK, this is why you'll find Mormons objecting to that characterization,''" said Gordon, who explains that such statements are considered code for suggesting Mormons are not Christians.

"The problem is that you can take any religion or beliefs and look at the doctrine and find ways to make them look silly," he said. "We're going to try and fill in the context and the gaps."

As explained on the league's website, Mormons believe Satan was also one of God's children but was cast out for rebelling against God's teachings.

Neither FAIR nor the Mormon Defense League are affiliated with or sanctioned by the Mormon church, although church spokesman Eric Hawkins told The Associated Press the faith favors "sincere efforts to correct misconceptions and inaccuracies."

Nothing about the Mormon Defense League is intended to replace the work of the church's paid public relations staff, Gordon said. But league contributors aren't hampered by an institutional process.

"Sometimes we might be able to say things that public affairs can't," Gordon said.


___

Online:

Mormon Defense League, http://mdl.org/

Foundation for Apologetic Information & Research, http://www.fairlds.org/

_________________
"'Dislike' him? What would I do without him! [Daniel Peterson] completes me."
- Doctor Scratch, Loquacious Witness: Scratch on Himself, Others, and More About Himself, (Salt Lake City: Cassius University Press, 2011), 57-58.


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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:17 am 
God

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 1464
Danite,

So it's the Mormon's proselytising equivalent of 'Black Ops'?
Get it done but ensure we have deniability.

Have all MDL members removed their dog tags?

_________________
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:30 am 
jon wrote:
Yes Simon, those were the questions I was asking, well parroted.
Now go and get yourself some milk and a cookie whilst the grown ups answer them...


You need to work on your reading and writing comprehension (hint: proper nouns are capitalized).

I, in fact, asked you a question:

What's the point of you posting here? What effect will it have on the Church?


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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:54 am 
God

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 1464
Simon Belmont wrote:
jon wrote:
Yes Simon, those were the questions I was asking, well parroted.
Now go and get yourself some milk and a cookie whilst the grown ups answer them...


I, in fact, asked you a question:

What's the point of you posting here? What effect will it have on the Church?


I'm looking back to where you answered my OP questions, guess what........

_________________
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:17 am 
Nursery
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:25 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Shaumahyeem
jon wrote:
Danite,

So it's the Mormon's proselytising equivalent of 'Black Ops'?
Get it done but ensure we have deniability.

Have all MDL members removed their dog tags?


I think that's likely a stretch of what "Black Ops" entails.

Actually, I think a better comparison would be what the Anti-Defamation League is to various Jewish organizations. As much as you'd like it, the Church doesn't loathe FAIR. As mentioned before, FAIR can reach a different audience and ultimately has a different purpose than the LDS missionary program.

Mormon missionaries invite others to come unto Christ through faith, repentance, baptism, receiving the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end.

FAIR's purpose is to correct misconceptions and answer criticisms of the Church its history, and doctrines. Yes, there can be a bit of crossover between the two, but FAIR is not a proselytizing organization. People come to FAIR - FAIR doesn't come to you. There's nothing sinister or conspiratorial about it. It simply is what it is.

No one wears dog tags, but it may be a good idea! I'll see what I can do to pull some strings - maybe it'll be free for joining the FAIR Apologetics List OR for one-time donors of $60 and up.

We'll need a good metal forge ... wait, I know a guy with a really nice backyard barbeque pit that might do the trick! I'll have to sort through all of my father's old "tools," which he buried one day and for one reason or another, never used again. Plenty of chisels, hammers, fullers, and anvils - among other things.

_________________
"'Dislike' him? What would I do without him! [Daniel Peterson] completes me."
- Doctor Scratch, Loquacious Witness: Scratch on Himself, Others, and More About Himself, (Salt Lake City: Cassius University Press, 2011), 57-58.


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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:22 am 
God
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FAIR scholars hard at work defending the faith:

Image

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Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:11 pm 
High Priest

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:06 am
Posts: 385
Ha! I can't agree with the characterization, Buffalo, but it was definitely good for a laugh!

Don

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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:39 pm 
God

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:41 pm
Posts: 2335
Buffalo wrote:
FAIR scholars hard at work defending the faith:

Image


Only in the fantasy's of the unchanging ignorant and bigoted. 20 years ago for the Book of Mormon ALONE let alone the entire Restoration there was plenty of evidences for it all to convince anyone that was objectively interested in the truth, rather than their bigotry. I know because I tested it all. Today the evidences for the work have at least Quadrupled.....

Sorry, the ship is getting bigger and stronger, not even close to sinking.


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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:09 am 
God

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 1464
ldsfaqs wrote:
Only in the fantasy's of the unchanging ignorant and bigoted. 20 years ago for the Book of Mormon ALONE let alone the entire Restoration there was plenty of evidences for it all to convince anyone that was objectively interested in the truth, rather than their bigotry. I know because I tested it all. Today the evidences for the work have at least Quadrupled.....

Sorry, the ship is getting bigger and stronger, not even close to sinking.


Ldsfaqs, what exactly ar those evidences?
(Just the best five will do)

_________________
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:37 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:35 pm
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Location: Shady Acres Status: MODERATOR
*crickets chirping*

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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:03 am 
God
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Location: Kli-flos-is-es
ldsfaqs wrote:
Buffalo wrote:
FAIR scholars hard at work defending the faith:

Image


Only in the fantasy's of the unchanging ignorant and bigoted. 20 years ago for the Book of Mormon ALONE let alone the entire Restoration there was plenty of evidences for it all to convince anyone that was objectively interested in the truth, rather than their bigotry. I know because I tested it all. Today the evidences for the work have at least Quadrupled.....

Sorry, the ship is getting bigger and stronger, not even close to sinking.


Quadrupled, eh? I suppose that's right. 0 x 4 = 0. :)

_________________
Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:05 am 
God
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onandagus wrote:
Ha! I can't agree with the characterization, Buffalo, but it was definitely good for a laugh!

Don


There really isn't anything that is funny without at least some basis in truth, Don. ;)

_________________
Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


Top
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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:48 am 
God

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 7678
harmony wrote:
*crickets chirping*


I to would love to see ldsfaqs back up his/her assertions with a list of these evidences, and how they have Quadrupled.

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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:22 pm 
God

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 1464
jon wrote:
ldsfaqs wrote:
Only in the fantasy's of the unchanging ignorant and bigoted. 20 years ago for the Book of Mormon ALONE let alone the entire Restoration there was plenty of evidences for it all to convince anyone that was objectively interested in the truth, rather than their bigotry. I know because I tested it all. Today the evidences for the work have at least Quadrupled.....

Sorry, the ship is getting bigger and stronger, not even close to sinking.


Ldsfaqs, what exactly ar those evidences?
(Just the best five will do)


Bumped
Come on ldsfaqs, show us the money...

_________________
'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.
Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.


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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:33 am 
God

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jon wrote:
Bumped
Come on ldsfaqs, show us the money...


If ldsfaqs could actually show us the money, it would be worth reading!

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(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.


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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:36 am 
God

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:28 pm
Posts: 1451
jon wrote:
...what influence will it have on the Church?


none, "The Church" is either the entity of the corporation, or it is the collective of entire membership.

Individuals may get some influence whether good or bad, but as for influence on the Collective, there will be no influence whatsoever.

I think the majority of LDS understand that like the book 'mormon doctrine' FIAR is simple the opinions of person who are not authorized to speak for the Church in particular respective capacity or topic they spoke on at FAIR.


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 Post subject: Re: The FAIR conference...
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:54 pm 
God

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:41 pm
Posts: 2335
My "showing" you all anything will do nothing for you, for you have already closed your minds. I know your "mocking" of everything mormon and the fruitlessness of trying to present a small sampling of evidences for your kind for the last 20 years. Your glasses are full, and cannot take let alone comprehend anything else, because you won't do the work you yourself need to do to understand. We can't force you to drink.

Those who are interested in knowing all the various evidences know where to go to get them, the sites to read, and the books to read.

I'm not going to try and present what I've learned from years of experience in the various religions and mormonism, and being anti-mormon and anti-religion, and the months I spent almost every day in the library reading all the various books on christian history, anti-mormonism and LDS scholarship, on a message board.

The truth is out there for those who are actually objective.

And I STILL study Christian history and materials, and all kinds of subjects, including anti-mormonism and LDS scholarship every single day. Do you?


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