It is currently Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:44 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Martin Luther on God's Acceptance of Lies
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:05 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:19 pm
Posts: 11625
Location: Multiverse
What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church … a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them.

--Martin Luther, cited by his secretary, in a letter in Max Lenz, ed., Briefwechsel Landgraf Philips des Grossmuthigen von Hessen mit Bucer, vol. 1. Source: Sissela Bok, Lying: Moral Choice In Public and Private Life‎, New York: Pantheon Books, 1978, p. 47. German text of the quote.

_________________
"On some grave questions, there is no difference to be split; one does not look for a synthesis between verity and falsehood; the sun does not rise in the east one day and in the west the next." --Christopher Hitchens


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Martin Luther on God's Acceptance of Lies
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:07 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:19 pm
Posts: 11625
Location: Multiverse
I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict Scripture.

--Martin Luther, letter to Chancellor Gregory Brück (An Den Kanzler Brück), 1524-01-13, Dr. Martin Luther's Briefe, Sendschreiben und Bedenken: volständig aus den verschiedenen Ausgaben seiner Werke und Briefe, aus andern Büchern und noch unbenutzten Handschriten gesammelt. From the Wilhelm Martin Leberecht De Wette Collection of Luther's Letters (Berlin: Georg reimer, 1826) Volume 2, p. 459 (Letter DLXXII; Latin text).

_________________
"On some grave questions, there is no difference to be split; one does not look for a synthesis between verity and falsehood; the sun does not rise in the east one day and in the west the next." --Christopher Hitchens


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Martin Luther on God's Acceptance of Lies
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:11 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:29 pm
Posts: 3905
Maksutov wrote:
What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of the good and for the Christian church … a lie out of necessity, a useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept them.

--Martin Luther, cited by his secretary, in a letter in Max Lenz, ed., Briefwechsel Landgraf Philips des Grossmuthigen von Hessen mit Bucer, vol. 1. Source: Sissela Bok, Lying: Moral Choice In Public and Private Life‎, New York: Pantheon Books, 1978, p. 47. German text of the quote.

Maksukov, I think whether you hear moral corruption or moral wisdom in this quote depends upon what sort of lies a person assumes are under consideration.

1943 France. "do you know any Jews being hidden in your neighborhood?" " why no, I have heard of no such here."

Rather different than, "this car (a true lemon) is trustworthy and a great buy."


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Martin Luther on God's Acceptance of Lies
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:20 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:29 pm
Posts: 3905
Maksutov wrote:
I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict Scripture.

--Martin Luther, letter to Chancellor Gregory Brück (An Den Kanzler Brück), 1524-01-13, Dr. Martin Luther's Briefe, Sendschreiben und Bedenken: volständig aus den verschiedenen Ausgaben seiner Werke und Briefe, aus andern Büchern und noch unbenutzten Handschriten gesammelt. From the Wilhelm Martin Leberecht De Wette Collection of Luther's Letters (Berlin: Georg reimer, 1826) Volume 2, p. 459 (Letter DLXXII; Latin text).

It might be noted that this comment is quite different than advising or commanding polygamy. It might also be observed that Luther declining to condemn polygamy does not mean he thinks that the government could not rule against it.

Luther tended to view people using their own judgement on decisions as a good thing.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Martin Luther on God's Acceptance of Lies
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:21 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:19 pm
Posts: 11625
Location: Multiverse
huckelberry wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict Scripture.

--Martin Luther, letter to Chancellor Gregory Brück (An Den Kanzler Brück), 1524-01-13, Dr. Martin Luther's Briefe, Sendschreiben und Bedenken: volständig aus den verschiedenen Ausgaben seiner Werke und Briefe, aus andern Büchern und noch unbenutzten Handschriten gesammelt. From the Wilhelm Martin Leberecht De Wette Collection of Luther's Letters (Berlin: Georg reimer, 1826) Volume 2, p. 459 (Letter DLXXII; Latin text).

It might be noted that this comment is quite different than advising or commanding polygamy. It might also be observed that Luther declining to condemn polygamy does not mean he thinks that the government could not rule against it.

Luther tended to view people using their own judgement on decisions as a good thing.

So they could ignore the Ten Commandments? :razz: Not exactly sola scriptura is it?

_________________
"On some grave questions, there is no difference to be split; one does not look for a synthesis between verity and falsehood; the sun does not rise in the east one day and in the west the next." --Christopher Hitchens


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Martin Luther on God's Acceptance of Lies
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:24 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:29 pm
Posts: 3905
Maksutov wrote:
huckelberry wrote:
Luther tended to view people using their own judgement on decisions as a good thing.

So they could ignore the Ten Commandments? :razz: Not exactly sola scriptura is it?

Luther certainly made his mistakes and serious negatives. As best I can tell, taking sola scriptura as requiring not thinking was not one of them .


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Martin Luther on God's Acceptance of Lies
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:14 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:42 pm
Posts: 19908
Location: Koloburbia
huckelberry wrote:
1943 France. "do you know any Jews being hidden in your neighborhood?" " why no, I have heard of no such here."

Rather different than, "this car (a true lemon) is trustworthy and a great buy."

So where would this one fall on that scale?
Quote:
An angel says you have to "marry" me or he will skewer me with his drawn sword.

_________________
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Martin Luther on God's Acceptance of Lies
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:00 pm 
God

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:07 pm
Posts: 1110
Location: Vancouver Washington
moksha wrote:
huckelberry wrote:
1943 France. "do you know any Jews being hidden in your neighborhood?" " why no, I have heard of no such here."

Rather different than, "this car (a true lemon) is trustworthy and a great buy."

So where would this one fall on that scale?

Quote:
An angel says you have to "marry" me or he will skewer me with his drawn sword.

Example of God being an author of a lie

https://i.imgur.com/zcxh40m.jpg

_________________
Justice = Getting what you deserve
Mercy = Not getting what you deserve
Grace = Getting what you can never deserve


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Martin Luther on God's Acceptance of Lies
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:17 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:19 pm
Posts: 11625
Location: Multiverse
Mittens wrote:
Example of God being an author of a lie

https://i.imgur.com/zcxh40m.jpg

Example of God considering doing evil, then repenting. Exodus 32:14.

"And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."

It took Moses to talk God out of being an ahole. Since Moses, nobody bothers, apparently. :lol:

_________________
"On some grave questions, there is no difference to be split; one does not look for a synthesis between verity and falsehood; the sun does not rise in the east one day and in the west the next." --Christopher Hitchens


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group