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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:56 pm 
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Let me get this crap pile dealt with real quick here.

RockSlider wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
Jersey, you say Philo doesn't understand Christianity. Are you saying that you do?

Jersey Girl is only trying to show Philo that he is not getting what a fantastic representative of the real/true Christianity she is. If only he would look to her example, then he might have a chance of understanding the complexities of Jersey Girl's superior Christianity, and don't forget, what a great example of that which she is!

What you are saying (because you have the reading comprehension of a second grader and the mentality of a fourth grader whose only defense is to throw intellectually immature spit balls) is that this big buck of a guy who soaks up knowledge like a human Shamwow, who is a multi-talented artist, who consumes books as if they were his food supply, who has a thirst for learning, decades of experience in apologetic debate with both novices and academics, who has presented and defended his findings before fairly large audiences, and who has multiple opportunities to engage the very best of the best heads on this board, would waste more than 5 seconds of his time engaging someone who is self superior and self righteous according to your claims.

As it stands, he has spent a bit more than 5 seconds hashing out various points of interest with me. He's actually spent something like 15 years and you think after more than a decade, that he doesn't know who I am at the core and he needs you (who wouldn't recognize an inclusive statement if it jumped off the screen and bit you in face) to save him.

Do not insult him again where I can see it.

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:26 pm 
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Kerry,

Do you not find Jersey Girl's treatment of you condescending and insulting?


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:34 am 
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Since this thread (and the previous one ) is about Jersey Girl insisting that Kerry sucks as a critic because he lacks a field study of a true Christian, giving herself as an example. I'd like to summarize my observations of Jersey Girl's living example of being a true Christian in these last two threads on the topic.

New Jersey Girl picked her screen name based on her pride in the attribute and capacity of her being real nasty. And yet she holds herself up as a model of a highly empathetic, love and charity filled Christlike example. To the novice Christian this would seem contradictory even hypocritical, perhaps Jersey Girl could explain this 180 degree contradiction of her example in these two threads?

I called Jersey Girl on her statements and examples in these two threads. In the previous thread, I simply pointed out a couple of statements of which she seemed to agree, even giving her own example of an atheist doing what she suggests is god's work. Where upon I noted she had motive, where the atheist had none.

This switched off the Christlike Jersey Girl, turning loose the 'Jersey Girl'. I tried to turn this around, but it was too late.

It seems that Jersey Girl is really good at pointing out others weaknesses, but not so good at having some of her's pointed out. I did not get nasty with Jersey Girl calling her vicious names like she did me. Unfortunately, I threw out a very pointed (and funny) video highlighting Jersey Girl's grandiosity, which she so richly displayed in these two threads.

I should have used Kerry instead of what I did, but the result would have been the same.


Last edited by RockSlider on Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:47 pm 
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RockSlider wrote:
Since this thread (and the previous one ) is about Jersey Girl insisting that Kerry sucks as a critic because he lacks a field study of a true Christian, giving herself as an example. I'd like to summarize my observations of Jersey Girl's living example of being a true Christian in these last two threads on the topic.

New Jersey Girl picked her screen name based on her pride in the attribute and capacity of her being real nasty. And yet she holds herself up as a model of a highly empathetic, love and charity filled Christlike example. To the novice Christian this would seem contradictory even hypocritical, perhaps Jersey Girl could explain this 180 degree contradiction of her example in these two threads?

I called Jersey Girl on her statements and examples in these two threads. In the previous thread, I simply pointed out a couple of statements of which she seemed to agree, even giving her own example of an atheist doing what she suggests is god's work. Where upon I noted she had motive, where the atheist had none.

This switched off the Christlike Jersey Girl, turning loose the 'Jersey Girl'. I tried to turn this around, but it was too late.

It seems that Jersey Girl is really good at pointing out others weaknesses, but not so good at having some of her's pointed out. I did not get nasty with Jersey Girl calling her vicious names like she did me. Unfortunately, I threw out a very pointed (and funny) video highlighting Jersey Girl's grandiosity, which she so richly displayed in these two threads.

I should have used Kerry instead of what I did, but the result would have been the same.

I do not recall Jersey Girl stating that Kerry "sucks" as a critic of Christianity. It seemed to me that she was offering a suggestion as to how to add to the work he has already done. That isn't criticism of Kerry's previous work. It seems to me that Kerry is very open to suggestions on how to add to his current research. Based on the fact that he has proven himself to be an excellent researcher, and those who are experts in their field are always looking to continuously learn and add upon what they are doing, I would think that Kerry would appreciate any suggestions given. And, I think that Kerry would particularly appreciate any suggestions from Jersey Girl since they are such good friends, and, also, he knows that Jersey Girl is a Christian, so she does have some unique suggestions to offer on how to continue to round out his research.

Rock, you're in IT, just as I am. You know as well as I do that IT changes every day. I belong to quite a few different developer groups, read a variety of software development magazines, and do a tremendous amount of self-research and learning.

I don't doubt that Kerry does the same thing in his areas of research.

I didn't read all of the links that you posted here, but I just didn't view Jersey Girl as bashing Kerry in any way. She was just offering another way he could add on to his already outstanding research in this area.

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:46 pm 
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RockSlider wrote:
Ceeboo wrote:
Then, you, our relatively new but just as energetic VP of Club Atheist decided to to come along and show your support to the club by sharing how it all reads to you.


Perhaps you missed the 4th post in the thread, Kerry's first response to Jersey Girl which seemed to explain the reason why she was mentioned and appeared to finalize any need for further discussion.

Philo Sofee wrote:
Oh, I was just saying the article said what you have said before that rather than wait around for God to pull a miracle out his cloud, we could be doing a lot more ourselves for ourselves.


Yes, it explained the reason why I was mentioned and it would have appeared to finalize the need for any further discussion had it not been for the very fact that it was also a misrepresentation of what I stated on the previous thread.

The opening post statement misrepresented what I stated and so did his above follow up comment.

Look on the first page of that thread, you'll see me raising the issue of misrepresentation at least twice, perhaps three times, then turn over to the second page and you'll see me raise the issue again. That's where the frustration and contention started to build.

He didn't deal with those misrepresentations until his second to last reply to me where he referred to how he "didn't act".

If you were reading the thread, why didn't you notice those features of the exchanges?

This is why I see your comments are irrelevant pestering. You're way behind in the thread, you either haven't read carefully what is right there on the screen or you are choosing to turn a blind eye, you comment, and someone has got to spend time going backwards to explain them to you.

Or put you on ignore and get your backtracking out of their face so they can continue without interference. We all only have so much time in a day to spend doing this stuff.

That's why you get the reactions that you do from me. I'm there trying to move forward with Kerry (or someone else) and you're there yapping your butt off about something that's already been resolved or addressed.

On that first thread, I saw that you said something about how I didn't own the thread or whatever, something about control issues. :rolleyes:

My damn NAME was in the title of that thread. I devoted myself to engaging Kerry because that's why I invited him to discuss the concept of God's work to begin with. What makes you or anyone else think I was remotely interested in discussing it with the entire board at large when the invitation that I extended was expressly to HIM and his acceptance of that invitation was issued to ME?

I'm not going to sit there and read and answer everyone and their dog, run the risk of going off on tangents when the only person whose thoughts I was interested in or cared about addressing was the very person that I extended the invitation to! Again, there is only so much time to invest in participation here.

Why does anyone have to explain these things to you? Read the threads. Read the comments. Read the question/answer exchanges. Follow the direction of the thread. Learn to read the so-called "wall of texts" like Kerry himself does.

You complain about "walls of texts" that you see as off topic or whatever, those walls of texts are the very HEART of the discussions. Kerry reads them, he takes them into consideration, responds to them often writing "walls of texts" in return, so why don't you? He's a reader, he's a writer. These posts are how we convey meaning to people.

What? You can't deal with more than one paragraph at a time? Sorry buddy, if you don't understand what you're seeing, if you're not willing to invest time reading and thinking about what you're reading, then why in the hell are you on the thread to begin with?

If you can't deal with it, then instead of pestering the living hell out of folks, sit back and watch how it plays out. As it stands, the second and most current thread was brought to resolution by page 3 and you're still harping on it!

If Kerry had a problem with me, he wouldn't put my name on ____ to begin with. If he felt either condescended to or insulted, he would't give me the time of day. I know that about him so why don't you know it? He knows full well who he's getting into the ring with and so do I. He knows there's going to be provocation coming from both sides. That's what the hell he's doing it for in the first place!

Read his comments about arguing with me that I put right in front of your face!

He wants to provoke thought and I am the same exact way. We are cut from the same cloth in that regard. Do you even know the person you think you're defending? I know this is a foreign concept to you and that you don't see it. What you see is a knock down drag out because that's all you allow yourself to see. Kerry and I exercise an enormous amount of TRUST in each other when we enter into that metaphorical ring and he's not the only person around here with whom I share trust. We know it can get heated, we know it can go off into a ditch--it's ____ board--it is what it is--nobody dies from it, people lose focus, people regain their focus, and if you are paying attention which you are NOT, we both come back to each other, take off the metaphorical gloves, shake hands and move on until next time if a next time presents itself again.

Nothing that you see happening is the end of the world so stop treating it as if it were. If the "players" themselves don't treat it as if it were the apocalypse, then you have no reason to either.

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:20 pm 
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Rock: Since this thread is about Jersey Girl insisting that Kerry sucks as a critic because he lacks a field study of a true Christian, giving herself as an example.

And I never once said that he either sucks or that he should do a field study of "a true Christian." I consistently suggested that he talk to Christians (plural). I've never once in my entire participation on this board, held myself up as a "true" (whatever that's supposed to mean) or good example of a Christian. I have always, faithfully and without fail, referred to myself as a LOUSY (poor or ____) example of a Christian which is the very reason why I don't witness to folks on boards or IRL for that matter, or hold myself out as preacher/teacher, because I am ill equipped to do so. I'm stubborn, I cuss like a truck driver, I'm impatient, contentious, tenacious, and I've always admitted those things about myself so why don't you know that?

READ my posts.

Conversely, do you think the Mormons that I learned from (including Kerry himself) were all what, model Mormons? Get real. They were everyday folks just like myself who acted in various positions, ward members, bishops, apologists, TBM's, NOM's and ex-LDS like Shades for that matter, basically anyone who had an interest in answering my questions.

Rock: I'd like to summarize my observations of Jersey Girl's living example of being a true Christian in these last two threads on the topic.

I never claimed it. Therefore your observations are ____, sir.

Rock: New Jersey[/b] Girl picked her screen name based on her pride in the attribute and capacity of her being real nasty.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: How would you know why I picked it? You think that all folks from Jersey are "real nasty"? How many folks from Jersey do you know exactly? One? Actually you know two on this board but I'd almost bet my house that you aren't remotely aware of it because you don't read and follow people's comments over time on this board.


Rock: And yet she holds herself up as a model of a highly empathetic, love and charity filled Christlike example. To the novice Christian this would seem contradictory even hypocritical, perhaps Jersey Girl could explain this 180 degree contradiction of her example in these two threads?

Never claimed that. Not once, not ever. Have you never read my comments regarding striving? Of course you haven't.

Rock: I called Jersey Girl on her statements and examples in these two threads. In the previous thread, I simply pointed out a couple of statements of which she seemed to agree, even giving her own example of an atheist doing what she suggests is god's work. Where upon I noted she had motive, where the atheist had none.

Rock: This switched off the Christlike Jersey Girl, turning loose the 'Jersey Girl'. I tried to turn this around, but it was too late.

Not reading or discussing those further. I already lived them once.

Rock: It seems that Jersey Girl is really good at pointing out others weaknesses, but not so good at having some of her's pointed out. I did not get nasty with Jersey Girl calling her vicious names like she did me.

Read my comments about self criticism and self disclosure again and get back to me. Search on the words "____", "lousy", "poor" Christian, "striving" and "flawed" in conjunction with my screen name.

Rock: Unfortunately, I threw out a very pointed (and funny) video highlighting Jersey Girl's grandiosity, which she so richly displayed in these two threads.

Was that the video wherein you mentioned my spouse? There's noting pointed or funny about dragging someone's family member into discussion. It's against board rules for a reason.

Rock: I should have used Kerry instead of what I did, but the result would have been the same.

You really should never use Kerry where I can see it. You shouldn't be using anyone much less my family member. The only results that you get when you break board rules are having your personal attack or derail posts jettisoned either to Telestial or OD.

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Last edited by Jersey Girl on Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer: Why Does God Help Only You
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:49 pm 
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Here is me self describing on the FIRST page of the FIRST thread, about "God's work" that you are referring back to. I'll pump it up and link it for you. Maybe you can read it this time because you surer than ____ didn't read it to start with!

Quote:
Given the fact that Christianiy speaks to a "heart change", it should make us want to try to follow the examples of Jesus. Some of us grow in compassion and some of us are just jerks. Personally, I think I function somewhere in the middle. ;-)


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48247

Do you get it now? Do you see it now?

There is NO place on this forum or even in my IRL where you will ever see me holding myself up as any sort of superior or model Christian. I'm both forthcoming and self critical.

Your claim is simply ____.

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Last edited by Jersey Girl on Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer: Why Does God Help Only You
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Just for general purposes here is you on the God's work thread.

Quote:
Perhaps Jersey Girl should have spent some of those years in a study of Atheist instead of Mormons.


Here is my reply.

Quote:
I should have spent some of those years learning about atheists? Have you not read my accounts of how I ended up online?

In terms of message boards, (this doesn't count my reading the 126 existing exit stories on RFM or corresponding with Donna Banta for about a year) I started out on 2think.org/lds-com--Honest Intellectual Inquiry.

I allowed myself to be engaged by a fairly large band of real skeptics most of whom were atheists and also agnostics. Some were life long atheists, disaffected members from Mormonsim, Christianity, and Catholicism. I became a "regular" on that board and remained so for probably 10 years give or take a couple until the board disbanded. I and those atheists, agnostics, and very few believers PAID MONEY to BUY that board from rpcman so I don't think you're in a position to question my devotion to learning or assume that I haven't allowed myself to learn about atheism or engage skepticism when I took on part ownership of a board that was dominated by atheists and skeptics.

So far as I am concerned and so far taking on the role of skeptic is concerned, I have more street cred here than most for I devoted a good 18 years (some not so good) of my free time to learning and hearing from all sides. I have put both my time and my money where my virtual mouth is.

A true skeptic opens his or herself up to perhaps a life long committment of learning from all sides. Whatever else you all may think regarding how many years a person has spent devoted to Mormonism, they cannot fully understand Christian belief in practice until they open themselves up to learning not just from books but from learning from Christians themselves. Even better would be learning from a Mormon who converted to Christianity but those folks are in short supply around here.

If I were to take on that approach, I'd be here right now quoting Ed freaking Decker as my authority on what Mormons believe!


Did you acknowledge that post? I didn't see it!

I spent perhaps TEN years on an atheist/skeptic male dominated board. I actually PAID FOR part OWNERSHIP of that board.

And not only that, who do you think I've been interacting on THIS atheist dominated board?

Here's Gunnar talking about me in the Paradise forum. He's known me online for 18 years. We both came from the board I mention above.


Quote:
Your apalling ignorance and eagerness to jump to unwarranted conclusions about others is showing once again. I have known Jersey Girl on line for years, and I know of very few people who are more open than her to experiencing and learning about other peoples and cultures and ways of doing things. Your eagerness to unjustifiably malign those who don't happen to share your points of view says much more about you than it does about her. I have never encountered a more closed minded and uneducable person than you!


I've debunked your claims right here on the screen. Whatever grudge it is that you're holding. You go ahead and carry it only don't expect me to carry it with you.

Your claims about me have been refuted. What else are you wrong about?

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer: Why Does God Help Only You
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:48 pm 
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Sure seemed you were putting yourself up as an example. Each of these highlight YOU as an expert example in one way or another. It might be like finding "Where's Waldo" in all that text you claim I don't read/understand, but yes I wanna talk about me

viewtopic.php?p=1106400#p1106400
viewtopic.php?p=1106845#p1106845
viewtopic.php?p=1106959#p1106959
viewtopic.php?p=1106970#p1106970
viewtopic.php?p=1106992#p1106992
viewtopic.php?p=1107005#p1107005
viewtopic.php?p=1107008#p1107008
viewtopic.php?p=1107042#p1107042
viewtopic.php?p=1107061#p1107061
viewtopic.php?p=1107209#p1107209
viewtopic.php?p=1107439#p1107439
viewtopic.php?p=1107517#p1107517
viewtopic.php?p=1107801#p1107801
viewtopic.php?p=1110022#p1110022
viewtopic.php?p=1110031#p1110031
viewtopic.php?p=1110568#p1110568


eta: talk about pestering ...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48436 about 82 posts, 39 of which are from Jersey Girl, 2 from me.

yes, I wanna talk about meeeee.


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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:40 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
cwald wrote:
RELEASE THE KRAKEN!

Image

:lol: :eek: :lol: :eek: cwald, where on earth are you getting the pictures of these disturbingly adorable children?!! (with the emphasis on disturbing...between this and the little plump mermaid girl --omg-I am still laughing...)


Oh that's easy. I learned it from Polygamy Porter long ago. All you have to do is Google "Mental gymnastics, you are a whiny little ____" and all kinds of good stuff will pop up.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:44 pm 
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cwald wrote:
RELEASE THE KRAKEN!

Image
Lemmie wrote:
:lol: :eek: :lol: :eek: cwald, where on earth are you getting the pictures of these disturbingly adorable children?!! (with the emphasis on disturbing...between this and the little plump mermaid girl --omg-I am still laughing...)

cwald wrote:
Oh that's easy. I learned it from Polygamy Porter long ago. All you have to do is Google "Mental gymnastics, you are a whiny little ____" and all kinds of good stuff will pop up.

:lol: I cannot argue with that logic.


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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer: Why Does God Help Only You
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:01 pm 
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RockSlider wrote:


That's a cute song. :biggrin:

What is it that you want to say about you?

Isn't this board about sharing experiences? As far as I can tell, Jersey Girl was sharing her experiences. That is what we're all doing here.

Exactly what experiences did you want to share?

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer: Why Does God Help Only You
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:04 pm 
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General question for the Mods: Why was the RockSlider/Jersey Girl conversation added to this thread? Near as I can tell, it was on topic. Yes, they were/are arguing, but I don't really see any personal attacks flying. Is there any way they could get melded back into the original thread on this? It's all pretty relevant to the topic. I hate having to access 2 forums to comment on the same thread topic. Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer: Why Does God Help Only You
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:28 pm 
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Jesse Pinkman wrote:
General question for the Mods: Why was the RockSlider/Jersey Girl conversation added to this thread? Near as I can tell, it was on topic. Yes, they were/are arguing, but I don't really see any personal attacks flying. Is there any way they could get melded back into the original thread on this? It's all pretty relevant to the topic. I hate having to access 2 forums to comment on the same thread topic. Thanks!


The original back and forth was reported as a derail and as a personal attack. Look at the early entries. I concluded the reports were valid, split the thread and moved it here. I don’t think the topics are the same. The original thread topic is Christianity and this one seems to be Rock’s beefs with Jersey Girl.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer: Why Does God Help Only You
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:33 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
Jesse Pinkman wrote:
General question for the Mods: Why was the RockSlider/Jersey Girl conversation added to this thread? Near as I can tell, it was on topic. Yes, they were/are arguing, but I don't really see any personal attacks flying. Is there any way they could get melded back into the original thread on this? It's all pretty relevant to the topic. I hate having to access 2 forums to comment on the same thread topic. Thanks!


The original back and forth was reported as a derail and as a personal attack. Look at the early entries. I concluded the reports were valid, split the thread and moved it here. I don’t think the topics are the same. The original thread topic is Christianity and this one seems to be Rock’s beefs with Jersey Girl.


OK. I understand now. Thanks for the explanation.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer: Why Does God Help Only You
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:42 pm 
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Jesse Pinkman wrote:
I hate having to access 2 forums to comment on the same thread topic. Thanks!


2 forums? At one time this thread was happening in Terrestrial, Telestial and Outer Darkness.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer: Why Does God Help Only You
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:46 pm 
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cwald wrote:
Jesse Pinkman wrote:
I hate having to access 2 forums to comment on the same thread topic. Thanks!


2 forums? At one time this thread was happening in Terrestrial, Telestial and Outer Darkness.


I had misunderstood what goes in OD. Shades gently corrected me and moved that stuff here.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer: Why Does God Help Only You
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
I had misunderstood what goes in OD. Shades gently corrected me and moved that stuff here.


I have no issues with the moderation that has happened here. My mentioning a family member seemed to warrant the original OD move, and Jersey Girl's vicious verbal personal attacks on me warrant the move to here.


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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer: Why Does God Help Only You
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:53 pm 
God
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Jesse Pinkman wrote:
That's a cute song. :biggrin:

What is it that you want to say about you?

Isn't this board about sharing experiences? As far as I can tell, Jersey Girl was sharing her experiences. That is what we're all doing here.

Exactly what experiences did you want to share?


I mentioned the whole concept of the song up thread:

"Unfortunately, I threw out a very pointed (and funny) video highlighting Jersey Girl's grandiosity, which she so richly displayed in these two threads".


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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:12 pm 
God
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Jesse Pinkman wrote:
ETA--I did not read your thread so I am unaware as to how Jersey Girl reacted to your opening post. Link?

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... 4#p1110714


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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer: Why Does God Help Only You
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:37 pm 
God
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RockSlider, what is it that you would like to get across to Jersey Girl? What would end this quibble between you two?

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So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?

"Friends don't let friends be Mormon." Sock Puppet, MormonDiscussions.com.

Music is my drug of choice.

"And that is precisely why none of us apologize for holding it to the celestial standard it pretends that it possesses." Kerry, MormonDiscussions.com
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