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 Post subject: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:43 pm 
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Philo Sofee wrote:
[an] essay telling believers to pull it out and get real.

Pull what out? And out of what? And get a reality check? Whose reality are you deferring to?

Every time I read you Philo, you're sounding more and more arrogant and/or self assured perception of truth/reality.

Congratulations on your new found non faith.

You've simply become another voice of reason...within certain parameters/confines. Eyes, nose, ears, mouth, and touch. Brain. Is that all you've got? :wink:

Nothing more?

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: From: Dear Believer: Why Does God Help Only You
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:05 am 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
Philo Sofee wrote:
[an] essay telling believers to pull it out and get real.

Pull what out? And out of what? And get a reality check? Whose reality are you deferring to?

Every time I read you Philo, you're sounding more and more arrogant and/or self assured perception of truth/reality.

Congratulations on your new found non faith.

You've simply become another voice of reason...within certain parameters/confines. Eyes, nose, ears, mouth, and touch. Brain. Is that all you've got? :wink:

Nothing more?

Regards,
MG
Congrats on earning your whiney little ____ title.

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 Post subject: Re: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:14 am 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
Philo Sofee wrote:
[an] essay telling believers to pull it out and get real.

Pull what out? And out of what? And get a reality check? Whose reality are you deferring to?

Every time I read you Philo, you're sounding more and more arrogant and/or self assured perception of truth/reality.

Congratulations on your new found non faith.

You've simply become another voice of reason...within certain parameters/confines. Eyes, nose, ears, mouth, and touch. Brain. Is that all you've got? :wink:

Nothing more?

Regards,
MG


I'm sure he has an imagination like you do .... except he knows when it's engaged.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:01 am 
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Yeah, Philo is arrogant, says the follower of the guy who says he met God, was greater than Jesus Christ and should be King of the World.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:35 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
Yeah, Philo is arrogant, says the follower of the guy who says he met God, was greater than Jesus Christ and should be King of the World.


Of course there's a bit more to the story than this, but you know that. We often leave out the twists and turns when we encapsulate history into a tidy little soundbite, don't we?

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:55 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
Philo Sofee wrote:
[an] essay telling believers to pull it out and get real.

Pull what out? And out of what? And get a reality check? Whose reality are you deferring to?

Every time I read you Philo, you're sounding more and more arrogant and/or self assured perception of truth/reality.

Congratulations on your new found non faith.

You've simply become another voice of reason...within certain parameters/confines. Eyes, nose, ears, mouth, and touch. Brain. Is that all you've got? :wink:

Nothing more?

Regards,
MG


Did you notice how your post was jettisoned to Telestial?
Did you notice how your post was received by others?

That's cause you're an obvious troll.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:58 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Did you notice how your post was jettisoned to Telestial?


On this thread I admit that I was offended by what I saw as Philo's arrogance in dissing believers as though they all have their heads planted where the sun don't shine. At least that was what I was reading/seeing between the lines.

It appears my response was a bit harsh by community standards and I wasn't very empathetic with his position. My questions were considered to be an attack on his person apparently.

Que sera sera. I should have figured this would be the result of calling him out as being somewhat arrogant. At least from my perspective.

Let me paraphrase what I gleaned a week or two ago from another discussion on whether or not I'm just a simple troll..."If he disagrees or points a finger at someone simply because he his on the opposite side of the fence, that doesn't make him a troll, does it?"

I don't think so.

I'm disagreeing (am I being disagreeable?) with you right now. Does that make me a troll?

I don't think so.

But I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole again...especially with you. There's absolutely no indication, at least to me from past experience, that it would be a productive use of time.

I disagree with the content of my posting on this thread being 'telestial worthy', but I'm not a moderator. I'm willing to go with their judgement and let it go. My expectation at this point in time is that it won't/doesn't take much...as a result of community outcry...to have/see some of my posts end up here. It surely shouldn't appear as though I'm some kind of golden boy who simply gets away with stuff without being reprimanded and having his hand slapped. :wink:

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:31 am 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
Maksutov wrote:
Yeah, Philo is arrogant, says the follower of the guy who says he met God, was greater than Jesus Christ and should be King of the World.


Of course there's a bit more to the story than this, but you know that. We often leave out the twists and turns when we encapsulate history into a tidy little soundbite, don't we?

Regards,
MG


Like the tidy little soundbite you used to encapsulate Philo?


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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:03 am 
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Philo Sofee wrote:
[an] essay telling believers to pull it out and get real.

mentalgymnast wrote:
Pull what out?
Your head.
Quote:
And out of what?
Your ass.
Quote:
And get a reality check?
You wish.
Quote:
Whose reality are you deferring to?
Err...well...reality.
Quote:
Every time I read you Philo, you're sounding more and more arrogant and/or self assured perception of truth/reality.
Every time I read you mental, you’re sounding less and less literate.
Quote:
Congratulations on your new found non faith.
Having faith in reality is not finding non faith. But I’m guessing such concepts are difficult to see from down where you’ve inserted your head.
Quote:
You've simply become another voice of reason...within certain parameters/confines.
The confines of reality.
Quote:
Eyes, nose, ears, mouth, and touch. Brain.
Were you going for the five senses, or body parts, or a midrash of both....
Quote:
Is that all you've got? :wink:
If he had half as much it would be four times what you are capable of understanding.
Quote:
Nothing more?
Other than you’re a little pile of trolling dog pooh stinking up a corner of the internet? No.
Quote:
Regards,
MG
:lol: :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:41 am 
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I Have A Question wrote:
Having faith in reality is not finding non faith. But I’m guessing such concepts are difficult to see from down where you’ve inserted your head.

OK, this made me literally laugh out loud. I'm lucky I wasn't sipping on my coffee at the time I was reading this. It would have spewed out all over my computer screen. LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:46 am 
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MG, you mentioned that you didn't understand exactly how your post was considered "Telestial worthy". Let me explain. It's not that your post was obscene or contained profanity. It was the fact that it contained a personal attack. Personal attacks are automatically routed to Telestial.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:29 am 
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Jesse Pinkman wrote:
MG, you mentioned that you didn't understand exactly how your post was considered "Telestial worthy". Let me explain. It's not that your post was obscene or contained profanity. It was the fact that it contained a personal attack. Personal attacks are automatically routed to Telestial.


It’s actually more complicated than that. I split the post because it was a derail. Rather than address something relevant to the substance of the opening post, it addressed the motivations and personal characteristics of the poster. Once split, I had to decide where it belonged. While it’s certainly possible to ask questions about a person’s motivations for a post without attacking them, in this case I thought the “sting” of the post was the blatant attacks on Philo as arrogant, etc. So, I moved it here.

Personal attacks in Celestial are automatically moved here. The Terrestial/Paradise rules address blatant or obvious personal attacks, which leaves some room for throwing elbows, especially if there is at least some attempt at being clever or witty.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:06 am 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
The Terrestial/Paradise rules address blatant or obvious personal attacks, which leaves some room for throwing elbows, especially if there is at least some attempt at being clever or witty.

So now there is an unwritten order of things that a poster must be "clever or witty".

Which of course is in the eye of the beholder...the moderator in this instance. :smile:

MG wrote:
You've simply become another voice of reason...within certain parameters/confines. Eyes, nose, ears, mouth, and touch. Brain. Is that all you've got? :wink:

Nothing more?

That doesn't do it for ya', huh? Clever or witty...I'm going to have to work harder at that so I don't get thrown in to outer darkness where cleverness and wittiness are in short supply and my lack of cleverness and wittiness is put out there for all to see.

Although, I must say, I think IHAQ's response to me upthread falls into that category. Extremely clever and witty. Well done, IHAQ. :lol: When you are free to express yourself in a telestial forum it's readily apparent to all that you have another side to your persona that shows through rather starkly. Over on the Terrestrial it's necessary to wear the cloak of civility. Purportedly so, anyway (unless you're quite clever and witty). And you do that quite well.

You have another side to your posting style that shows through in your response to me in this lower kingdom where less self discipline is required in what one thinks/says.

Anyway, I will bow to your judgment Rep Ipsa. Your new found powers of discernment need to be respected. What choice to I have? :wink:

I will concede that my comment concerning what I believe to be Philo's arrogance showing through in the post I responded to could be considered to be a mild derail...but from what I've seen, this practice of mild derails going of on a bit of a tangent questioning someone else's motives, character, etc., seems to be something that occurs fairly often here and there in the terrestrial forum. But that may be what you're attempting to curtail. If you're putting into practice the objective of uniformly bringing these types of derails to a gradual death, then I'm actually all for it. As long as your actions/judgment apply across the board to everyone. That would make the board much more civil and I applaud that move. We'll have to keep an eye on whether or not these mild sorts of derails or "attacks" as some might call them are consistently moved to the Telestial Forum.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:24 am 
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MG wrote:
We'll have to keep an eye on whether or not these mild sorts of derails or "attacks" as some might call them are consistently moved to the Telestial Forum.

They are, and, based on RI's level of commitment, and skill as a Moderator, I know that they will continue to be. He has proven to be an extremely consistent Moderator in the short time he has served in that role.

I, for one, greatly appreciate his efforts.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:53 am 
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Jesse Pinkman wrote:
MG wrote:
We'll have to keep an eye on whether or not these mild sorts of derails or "attacks" as some might call them are consistently moved to the Telestial Forum.

They are, and, based on RI's level of commitment, and skill as a Moderator, I know that they will continue to be. He has proven to be an extremely consistent Moderator in the short time he has served in that role.

I, for one, greatly appreciate his efforts.

Until yesterday I was off the board for a breather, as is my practice. If what you're saying is true, then I applaud this change and the continued move towards civility/respect on this board.

That would be awesome. You might even see a few more active LDS types enter into conversation now and then. :smile: Believe it or not, most of us...that is, active and believing members of the church...don't like to get down in the dirt and start throwing mud balls. Although in my case I have been known to join in the fray.

Way back when I think Pahoran created a not so good image of posting style. It was unfortunate. There have been others like him. But the thing is, there are those on the other side of the tracks who aren't so nice either. Can't we all just get along? Maybe not...but still...we can be less abrasive and more civil/respectful towards other viewpoints.

Anyway, time will tell. Let's see how things evolve.

Rep Ipsa, if you are indeed making an effort to act as an unbiased moderator treating everyone equitably, then I applaud you. I'm sure that other eyes besides Jesse's will be watching.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:50 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:05 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
So now there is an unwritten order of things that a poster must be "clever or witty".

Well that’s two strikes for you then, you big steaming pile of internet trolling dog pooh.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:38 pm 
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I have a question wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:
So now there is an unwritten order of things that a poster must be "clever or witty".

Well that’s two strikes for you then, you big steaming pile of internet trolling dog pooh.


I will not respond in kind.

I am happy to say, however, that I'm glad your 'true colors' of expression are restricted/regulated in the Terrestrial Forum. Civil discussions would be severely limited or end up being curtailed by Ad hominem attacks and poo poo throwing.

Oh wait, at times they have gone that direction...

You're at you very best here in the Telestial Forum, aren't you? Isn't it wonderful? Isn't it grand?

We'll see you up in the Terrestrial Forum where better behavior is expected...

I don't think we're really accomplishing anything productive here. Do you?

Cleverness and wittiness aside. :smile:

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:51 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
So now there is an unwritten order of things that a poster must be "clever or witty".

No. The practice is this: If a personal attack is clever, witty, or shows a bit of flair or panache, then it's much, much less likely to be moved to the Telestial forum.

For example, something like "I'm outta here, you stupid moron" is pretty brainless, but something like "I will now leave you to your favorite activity, that of furiously masturbating to your vast collection of Justin Bieber memorabilia" shows a bit of time and effort. Therefore, the latter would stay.

Quote:
Which of course is in the eye of the beholder...the moderator in this instance. :smile:

That is 100% correct.

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:58 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
The Terrestial/Paradise rules address blatant or obvious personal attacks, which leaves some room for throwing elbows, especially if there is at least some attempt at being clever or witty.


MG wrote:
So now there is an unwritten order of things that a poster must be "clever or witty".


No, but it is not enough to read the Koran. One must also study the Hadith.

Quote:
Not all personal attacks will be considered equal, even if they say the same thing. For example, something that might technically be an attack but is nevertheless witty, sophisticated, or otherwise requires (even a little) brainpower to think up will be allowed to stand. On the other hand, attacks that are gutter-level, junior-high, or trailer park-ish will be deleted. For example, attacks like "It saddens me to see you suffering under the malignant cancer of Mopologetic dystrophy" would be allowed to stay, whereas attacks like "you stupid d__a__!" would not.


http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... 66#p220726

I would encourage anyone interested in understanding what Shades is aiming for in terms of posting behavior and moderation policies to read all the comments in the Rules thread, as well as all the links Shades has posted to other materials.

Quote:
Which of course is in the eye of the beholder...the moderator in this instance. :smile:


Again, from the Hadith:

Quote:
Now, I know what you're all thinking. While reading the above list, you thought to yourself, "Yes, but how can the moderators all agree in every instance? Aren't some of those things subjective determinations?" My answer is YES, they indeed ARE subjective. Not that I like it that way, of course, but because that's the simple reality of there being more than one moderator and all of us being human. I have already given each of my moderators strict instructions that, while in moderator mode, they must each become a clone of me, do things precisely the way I would do them, suppress any and all creativity and innovativeness, and otherwise surrender their free agency. (I think the recent goings-on were symptomatic of an unwitting departure from those instructions, nothing more.) Nevertheless, while considering "What Would Dr. Shades Do," it's inevitable that they'll guess wrong on occasion. Please cut them some slack; THIS IS NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE BIASED AGAINST YOU, it's merely because we're all different people and sometimes interpret things differently, much as it pains us.


Ibid.

MG wrote:
You've simply become another voice of reason...within certain parameters/confines. Eyes, nose, ears, mouth, and touch. Brain. Is that all you've got? :wink:

Nothing more?


MG wrote:
That doesn't do it for ya', huh? Clever or witty...I'm going to have to work harder at that so I don't get thrown in to outer darkness where cleverness and wittiness are in short supply and my lack of cleverness and wittiness is put out there for all to see.


See the Hadith quoted above. If you want to see the kind of posts that get sent to Outer Darkeness, read PP's recent posts there. Regardless of your level of cleverness and wittiness, it is always there for all to see because we move the posts.

MG wrote:
Although, I must say, I think IHAQ's response to me upthread falls into that category. Extremely clever and witty. Well done, IHAQ. :lol: When you are free to express yourself in a telestial forum it's readily apparent to all that you have another side to your persona that shows through rather starkly. Over on the Terrestrial it's necessary to wear the cloak of civility. Purportedly so, anyway (unless you're quite clever and witty). And you do that quite well.

You have another side to your posting style that shows through in your response to me in this lower kingdom where less self discipline is required in what one thinks/says.


Quote:
Anyway, I will bow to your judgment Rep Ipsa. Your new found powers of discernment need to be respected. What choice to I have? :wink:


I think very clear precedent has been set that there is no expectation or requirement to "bow to my judgment." You can choose to argue with me about it, insult me (but not my wife or kids), curse like a sailor at me, appeal to EAllusion or Shades to merge this thread back into the original, stomp off in disgust, organize a board boycott, etc. I think the precedent has been pretty clearly set that one can say any ____ thing one wants to me here with no consequence other than my typing back. :lol: One does, however, have to subject oneself to some level of cursing. :wink:

MG wrote:
I will concede that my comment concerning what I believe to be Philo's arrogance showing through in the post I responded to could be considered to be a mild derail...but from what I've seen, this practice of mild derails going of on a bit of a tangent questioning someone else's motives, character, etc., seems to be something that occurs fairly often here and there in the terrestrial forum. But that may be what you're attempting to curtail. If you're putting into practice the objective of uniformly bringing these types of derails to a gradual death, then I'm actually all for it. As long as your actions/judgment apply across the board to everyone. That would make the board much more civil and I applaud that move. We'll have to keep an eye on whether or not these mild sorts of derails or "attacks" as some might call them are consistently moved to the Telestial Forum.


It appears to me from your lengthy posting history, as well as your description above, that you don't understand how a derail works and why we might choose to split out a derail from a thread. I'd like you to start with these posts from EAllusion, who's got a ton more experience than I have here and who is way more articulate than yours truly:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48349&start=126#p1109507

With that as background, let's look at the mechanics of this particular derail. Philo's opening post was about a linked article and what he believed were ramifications for Christians in general and Jersey Girl in particular. Although your first sentence asked what appear to be questions for clarification about the opening post, you then abruptly shifted the topic to Philo's personal characteristics and your judgments about them. This was, as EAllusion mentioned, an "abrupt" shift At that point, your post was the start of a potential derail. In a perfect world, folks would have just rolled their eyes, chuckled, or silently ignored the potential derail and stayed with the subject of the opening post. Had they done so, I'd have likely left your post in place. But that didn't happen. The potential derailed led to three more posts (one of them your own) that converted the potential derail into an actual derail. At that point, I decided the derail was significant enough to warrant splitting it into a new thread. Looking at the derail, it was obvious where it started, so I chose your first post as the first post of the new thread. Then I had to decide which forum it belonged in. In my opinion, the "sting" of the post was a personal attack on Philo, so I put the new thread in Telestial. So, when you describe what happened as a "mild" derail, I think you are missing the point. It was a bona fide derail comprised of several posts that didn't address the topic in the opening post. If you want precedent for assigning the new thread to this forum, I'll point you to IHAQ's derail down here on the subject of Is MG a Troll?

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 Post subject: Re: From: Dear Believer, Why Does God Only Help You?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:05 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
I will not respond in kind.
Great!
Quote:
I am happy to say, however, that I'm glad your 'true colors' of expression are restricted/regulated in the Terrestrial Forum.
How do you know these are my true colours?
Quote:
Civil discussions would be severely limited or end up being curtailed by Ad hominem attacks and poo poo throwing.
They are severely limited by your internet trolling dog poo.
Quote:
Oh wait, at times they have gone that direction...
Apology accepted.
Quote:
You're at you very best here in the Telestial Forum, aren't you?
My best? :lol:
Quote:
Isn't it wonderful? Isn't it grand?
aren't you full of crap.
Quote:
We'll see you up in the Terrestrial Forum where better behavior is expected...
But where your trolling internet dog poo gets a pass, apparently. Keep it up troll.
Quote:
I don't think we're really accomplishing anything productive here. Do you?
You haven’t accomplished anything productive since you hit puberty...

_________________
Joseph Smith proposed to Fanny in the same way Trump proposed to Stormy Daniels.
(Fence Sitter, Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:20pm)


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