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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:01 pm 
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I have a question wrote:
I’ve reported a number of personal attack or off topic posts from archeology thread started by Quasi. I’m sure the moderators will be as expedient and thorough in moving them, as they were with mine...

Don't hold your breath, IHAQ. I've reported multiple personal attacks and Tobin-esque posts by that poster, as well as twice when he changed a poster's quote in order to make an attack. All reports were after Dr. Shades' warning to him that just one more tobin-esque post and he would be queued. Both reports were ignored for many, many days, and then ultimately nothing happened.

Could the board just be upfront about the policy we are observing?

"Mentalgymnast is allowed to make passive aggressive attacks and misquote people in order to further those attacks, but all others will be held to a higher standard. Also, mentalgymnast's reports will be dealt with immediately, in the manner he requests, while reports ON mentalgymnast will be ignored for multiple days, until they are quietly ditched. This will be done in order to preserve the entertainment value of hosting a passive-aggressive, contrarian troll, even if it is to the detriment of our community."


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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:16 pm 
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Taking advantage of the fact that this thread is in the Telestial Kingdom, I just want to say that the article in Science about "How a Mormon lawyer transformed archaeology in Mexico—and ended up losing his faith" was ____ awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:39 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
On the personal attack issue, I also think that your post fairly falls within the category of personal attack. In my opinion, your post did not address the subject of the thread and was devotes solely to attacking the character and motivations of MG. But, let me add, the rules also state that we are charged with enforcing the spirit and not the letter of the rules.

I know you are new as a mod, but this is just ____. You want to read posts that do "not address the subject of the thread and [are devoted] solely to attacking the character and motivations..."????

Here let me help you out with that:

mentalgymnast to sanctorian, 2.06,17, wrote:
I've already said it, but I'll say it once more...you're a liar and you make stuff up.

Regards,
MG

mentalgymnast, to multiple posters, 9/17, wrote:
Were you ever an active/believing member of the church? If so, I must say, how far some of the mighty and great ones have fallen.

Same applies to some others here. The hate (Shulem). The liars (Doc and others). The purveyors of sin (pornography, sodomy, etc.)

And a blindness/open rebellion to a creator/God in who's image we are created.

Sad.

Regards,
MG
mentalgymnast, to Lemmie, 2016, wrote:
As I said earlier...I don't know where you're coming from or why you're here. What I do remember is that someone may have asked/said you worked at an academic institution?

Really?

by the way, the wink back a while ago was a 'back atcha'.

I think you are a troll. You sure fit the profile. I was kinda slow to figure it out...my bad.

Can women be trolls? I really thought that was a guy thing. :wink: :smile:

MG

That's a few to get you started, Res Ipsa. But, by all means, continue to talk about my "bitching."


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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:02 pm 
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Thought experiment: Does mentalgymast endure more negativity--in any form--than he gives out, or is it the other way around?

(Lemmie: Those examples are from before we identified the problem and reined him in.)

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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:22 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
Thought experiment: Does mentalgymast endure more negativity--in any form--than he gives out, or is it the other way around?

BULL ____ ____. Excuse my language, Dr. Shades, but here we are in Telestial, so may I take the opportunity to say you have got to be ____ me. Mentalgymast is a ____ ASSHOLE, he has a years-long standing pattern of trashing our community, and you mods are allowing him to ____ the board over because you keep thinking this time, he will behave. BULL ____ ____.
Quote:
(Lemmie: Those examples are from before we identified the problem and reined him in.)

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: His personal attacks in me are still in Terrestial, from AFTER you told us "just one more tobin-esque post and he goes on queue," so when, exactly, did you "rein him in"? How did you "rein him in"? And please don't be a tease and say you can't tell us that. YOU brought it up.


Last edited by Lemmie on Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:30 pm 
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Remember how it all came to a head some weeks back and there were multiple threads dealing with him? How I stridently admonished him? Then.

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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
BULL ____ ____. Excuse my language, Dr. Shades, but here we are in Telestial, so may I take the opportunity to say you have got to be ____ me. Mentalgymast is a ____ ASSHOLE, he has a years-long standing pattern of trashing our community, and you mods are allowing him to ____ the board over because you keep thinking this time, he will behave. BULL ____ ____.



Let it all hang out!

____.

____.

Bull.

Pussy.

Poop.

etc.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:54 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
Lemmie wrote:
BULL ____ ____. Excuse my language, Dr. Shades, but here we are in Telestial, so may I take the opportunity to say you have got to be ____ me. Mentalgymast is a ____ ASSHOLE, he has a years-long standing pattern of trashing our community, and you mods are allowing him to ____ the board over because you keep thinking this time, he will behave. BULL ____ ____.



Let it all hang out!

____.

____.

Bull.

Pussy.

Poop.

etc.

:lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thanks for the pep talk, Shulem. I have had it up to my ____ ears with mentalgymnast's passive aggressive bull ____, and the textbook case here of mods being manipulated by his CRAP.

I love this community. I spent decades completely on my own here on the East Coast, with not a single family member out of my HUGE Mormon family willing to talk to the "black sheep," with the added ignominy of having my ex's non-LDS family hate me because they thought I embodied the religion that stole their convert son. The only people I knew out here were LDS because that is what I was when I first got here with my soon to be ex, and not one single one of them ever spoke to me again after we split up (because of course I was the evil one leaving the church), except to try to "re-activate" me, years later. My ex moved back to Utah and I was left here, an extremely inexperienced twenty-something, alone with a child, a family who disowned me because I wasn't Mormon, and in-laws who disowned me because they thought I was. I was in graduate school at Columbia, had NO MONEY whatsoever, and even had my ex-MIL sue me to try to get money out of me for her son. (the judge laughed that one out of court, but I still had to pay thousands to a lawyer to represent me.) I never knew about all the exmo stuff online because every second of my time back then was spent teaching, surviving, and moving past my Mormon heritage, psychological damage and all.

Finally, after years and years of having no one understand, I found a community here I can relate to, and after fighting back against a troll who is threatening that, Dr. Shades wants to know if mentalgymnast has endured more negativity. OMFG.

NO, Dr. Shades, mentalgymnast's religion is an irrelevant aside. He is a sadistic troll who takes pleasure in disrupting our community, because he is a powerless twit everywhere else in his life. He is a textbook Contrarian Troll driven by his sadistic urges and he will NEVER change.

You have not "reined him in," he is just biding his time until his next sadistic round.


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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:47 pm 
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Sigh...I remember when I was the only girl in town who swore. I'm not special any more. ;-)

But this that Lemmie wrote with a little bold emphasis from me:

Quote:
I love this community. I spent decades completely on my own here on the East Coast, with not a single family member out of my HUGE Mormon family willing to talk to the "black sheep," with the added ignominy of having my ex's non-LDS family hate me because they thought I embodied the religion that stole their convert son. The only people I knew out here were LDS because that is what I was when I first got here with my soon to be ex, and not one single one of them ever spoke to me again after we split up (because of course I was the evil one leaving the church), except to try to "re-activate" me, years later. My ex moved back to Utah and I was left here, an extremely inexperienced twenty-something, alone with a child, a family who disowned me because I wasn't Mormon, and in-laws who disowned me because they thought I was. I was in graduate school at Columbia, had NO MONEY whatsoever, and even had my ex-MIL sue me to try to get money out of me for her son. (the judge laughed that one out of court, but I still had to pay thousands to a lawyer to represent me.) I never knew about all the exmo stuff online because every second of my time back then was spent teaching, surviving, and moving past my Mormon heritage, psychological damage and all.

Finally, after years and years of having no one understand, I found a community here I can relate to


This fully explains how this board MATTERS to people. The discussions MATTER to people. The ability to talk to someone with whom you can relate and who can relate to you, MATTERS to people.

If I put my mind to it, I can just about gauge the timeframe that Lemmie refers to and I know better than most the area that she's talking about. She got dumped on her ass in an area where the folks in the neighborhoods, the community around her, basically anyone she might have struck up a conversation with were primarily Catholics and Jews. I mean, if you could have pulled a Protestant out of that area, you'd be doing good and they wouldn't have understood her either.

Of course now, the area is more diverse, however back then? No way in hell. There was either a Catholic church or a synagogue in every stinking town.

There was literally no one in the area with whom she could confide who would have had a chance in hell of understanding what the ____ she was talking about. No one there would have had an ability to relate to her. I guarantee it.

And then she comes here and finds other folks who are exactly like her. Their stories might differ, but they "get it".

I mean ____, over the years I have watched folks here fascinated by alcohol talking about it amongst each other and actually indulging in it with each other before my eyes on the screen. I'm someone who did those things when I was a teenager. Ex-LDS HAVE to experiment with those things that they were robbed of. They HAVE to go through those stages and experience those things with others who understand where they are coming from.

I remember once when TD put it out to the board that she was having company and needed to know how to make tea! Tea! I drink it every day of my life and have done so since childhood. But she wasn't allowed to even learn how to make a cup of tea for guests much less have a taste of it herself. Something that is so simple and commonplace to me!

And they HAVE to communicate with each other in order to process their LDS experiences, their hardships, they have to GO BACK INTO their journey while at the same time moving forward. They HAVE to be able to achieve the catharsis that can only come from someone else who has walked that same walk and that can only happen by digging up those new and old bones and sharing them with folks who understand.

And then you have a non-serious poster like MG. He comes into their threads, treats it like it's a ____ joke, makes snide personal remarks about them, stirs the pot, fails to take a stand, fails to support his assertions, aggravates the living hell out of serious and substantive posters (Like Lemmie, like Ihaq, like grindael) and when he's backed into a corner instead of accepting his part in a situation, he tries to share that blame with THEM.

Over the past couple of years, I have seen him do it to Ihaq, grinadeal, Lemmie, and more recently Shulem and Philo. He follows them around like the blue ass fly that A used to talk about. Asking them questions and when they DELIVER the goods, he's suddenly got no more time to devote to it...that is to say, he bails.

Yes, when posters like Shulem and Philo start pumping out like a fountain, it's of benefit to the community and the lurkers. But imagine yourself someone putting your best foot forward only to have someone ____ with you the way that MG ____ with folks here.

Imagine that happening time after time after time, year after year, after year, and when admin steps in you STILL feel like you were never heard. And now you are accused of "bitching" or being "childish". Just reading some of those trolled threads (as basically a lurker) aggravated the hell out of me on account of the disruptive nature of MG's behaviors.

Honestly, I tried to pull my nose out of this thread and I just couldn't stand it any more.

There are folks here for whom this board MATTERS. For MG, it's all too often a GAME of jerk around.

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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:06 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
You have not "reined him in," he is just biding his time until his next sadistic round.


That was an awesome vent.

And you speak the truth. People, if they're sincere, generally morph over time in the pursuit of understanding things differently. Even if their basic character is the same you're going to see a shift in perspective when certain arguments are presented. Water Dog is one that comes to mind. He's a certain way, but you can see he's open to facts, even if he's debating a topic passionately.

What trolls don't do is change. Ever. You see this with a handful of posters, and I think you've nailed it. They feel disempowered in their real lives so they use the forum as a way to gain that sense of power back by simply being subversive. It's one thing to be a contrarian, and it's another to be a contrarian doing the same contrarian things in the same contrarian way for 10 years.

I do have to say I appreciate Dr. Shades' effort to prevent the place from becoming an echo chamber. The Terrestrial forum is only dominated by skeptics because he refuses to over moderate in order to make the place more attractive to the sensitive souls who otherwise can't handle being challenged. It's tricky because if you 'under moderate' Mormons will go to their protected areas so they can reassure one another of their beliefs, but if you 'over moderate' then you have the MAD board and that just serves their purpose to remain protected from opinions that forces them to deal with fact. Plus, they don't like it when they act like dick holes and people respond in kind. It really ramps up their victim complex routine...

I don't know. The fact that this discussion can even happen on a message board seems pretty unique to me. Most mods I've seen on other forums and on Reddit are just raging assholes who love their little bit of censoring power. They completely ____ ing flip out if you call them out on anything or don't bend to their whims, and you usually end up banned. Once again I'm amazed at MormonDiscussions.com mods' forbearance to be as even-handed as possible within the mission of this board.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Analytics wrote:
Taking advantage of the fact that this thread is in the Telestial Kingdom, I just want to say that the article in Science about "How a Mormon lawyer transformed archaeology in Mexico—and ended up losing his faith" was ____ awesome.

A ____ men.

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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:27 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
You're not "getting" him, RI. I'll try not to interfere further, but I'll tell you what, watching these exchanges from afar is pretty darn difficult.

I realize that some of this stuff predated your modship*, but seriously, you guys need to listen to what the folks are saying here.

I'll try not to stick my nose into this further. No guarantees from the management though.

;-)

*If that's not a word, I just made it one.


Jersey Girl, I don't think you have any idea whether I'm "getting" him or not. If he spent 5 minutes sitting face to face with me (preferably over a beer), I think he'd understand that I do get him. I've read what feels like thousands of posts on MG over the last couple of months. I think I understand what IHAQ's views of MG and the manner in which he's been moderated (or not moderated). I understand perfectly what it feels like to feel strongly about an issue that folks in charge don't appear to be taking seriously. I understand the fact that this board matters to people, and that they feel strongly enough about it to take action to defend it against what they consider to be threats. I'm not sure what you think I'm not getting and why you think that.

Oh, and I'm happy to have you stick your nose in. You've been here a long time, and I value your perspective. :smile:

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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:45 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:

Jersey Girl, I don't think you have any idea whether I'm "getting" him or not. If he spent 5 minutes sitting face to face with me (preferably over a beer), I think he'd understand that I do get him. I've read what feels like thousands of posts on MG over the last couple of months. I think I understand what IHAQ's views of MG and the manner in which he's been moderated (or not moderated). I understand perfectly what it feels like to feel strongly about an issue that folks in charge don't appear to be taking seriously. I understand the fact that this board matters to people, and that they feel strongly enough about it to take action to defend it against what they consider to be threats. I'm not sure what you think I'm not getting and why you think that.

Oh, and I'm happy to have you stick your nose in. You've been here a long time, and I value your perspective. :smile:


Great. Then let me stick my nose in further. When folks are expressing strong concern to you as moderator, describing them as "bitching" or "childish" doesn't help a ____ thing.

You're welcome.
:twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:49 pm 
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I have a question wrote:
No, you don’t get that I’m frustrated. At all. Mentalgymnast has been at it for years and years and ____ all has been done about it. But now “little troll” and you make a stand. Well ____ me sideways from Friday. That’s it. I request, no, I demand you delete my account and all my posts. How’s that for ____ frustration?

If you're talking to me, IHAQ, I do get your frustration. As I posted just upthread, I've spent hours and hours reading posts about MG and doing my best to understand everyone's point of view, seeing it from as many sides as there are. I know exactly what it's like to see what I felt was an injustice and to have no one appear to take me seriously about it. It's frustrating as hell. As I said upthread, if we could sit down for a beer, I think you'd come away realizing that I do understand. Sadly, it's very hard (at least for me) to do that on a typed screen.

I believe account deletion is above my pay grade. I'll make sure Shades sees your request. I wish you'd take some time and, I dunno, sleep on it. But it's your call.

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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:50 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:

Jersey Girl, I don't think you have any idea whether I'm "getting" him or not. If he spent 5 minutes sitting face to face with me (preferably over a beer), I think he'd understand that I do get him. I've read what feels like thousands of posts on MG over the last couple of months. I think I understand what IHAQ's views of MG and the manner in which he's been moderated (or not moderated). I understand perfectly what it feels like to feel strongly about an issue that folks in charge don't appear to be taking seriously. I understand the fact that this board matters to people, and that they feel strongly enough about it to take action to defend it against what they consider to be threats. I'm not sure what you think I'm not getting and why you think that.

Oh, and I'm happy to have you stick your nose in. You've been here a long time, and I value your perspective. :smile:


Great. Then let me stick my nose in further. When folks are expressing strong concern to you as moderator, describing them as "bitching" or "childish" doesn't help a ____ thing.

You're welcome.
:twisted:


Thanks, and point well taken. I apologize to both IHAQ and Lemmie for both. I let my own frustration get the better of me.

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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:05 pm 
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Thank you, my friends Jersey Girl and Doc Cam. I appreciate your understanding and acceptance so very, very much. And Shulem, I count you in there as well! Encouraging me to let out all those swear words is a healthy, healthy thing, even if it makes me a pain in Dr. Shades' ass--whom I also love dearly, in my own special, "bitchy" way (as new mod Res Ipsa puts it :lol: :lol: :lol:).

Seriously, though, my connections here mean the world to me. You have introduced me to a world I didn't dare hope existed, and you have encouraged me and motivated me and saved me. Thank you all.


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 Post subject: Re: Moderator Issues
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:16 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
Jersey Girl, I'm trying to be as transparent as I can while at the same time conforming to moderator policy or practice. In retrospect, I should have just kept my mouth shut and let IHAQ and Lemmie ____ away. At least I wouldn't be accused of dicking anyone around. :wink:

OMG. "____ away." You really are that stupid. You mods are being jerked around by mentalgymnast because no matter how much information you have, you insist on looking at individual posts instead of patterns. That's exactly what a passive-aggressive poster wants you to do, that's what the academic research has concluded about how the methods of passive-aggressive trolls disrupt online communities, and that is precisely how to give a Master Class in how to be ____ around by passive-aggressive posters.

TL;DR A mod says Lemmie is "bitching away," while no mod EVER mentions a problem with Mentalgymnast calling people "purveyors of sodomy." The mods just canNOT figure out what is happening. :rolleyes:


Lemmie, I apologize for that comment. I let my own frustration get the better of me.

Is your evaluation of MG the one and only absolute truth, or is there some room for reasonable minds to disagree?

In general, the mods don't discuss posts they have a problem with in public. They generally discuss that stuff among themselves. The only reason we are discussing IHAQ's post is that he asked about it. Otherwise, the thread gets split and life goes on. I did another similar split on Monday in a different thread. I didn't publicly call out the "offender" or castigate him publicly about what he said. And I'm not going to, either. Not now and not in three months or six months. Telestial derail in a Terrestrial thread. Split, relocated to the proper section of the forum, done.

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― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:17 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
Thank you, my friends Jersey Girl and Doc Cam. I appreciate your understanding and acceptance so very, very much. And Shulem, I count you in there as well! Encouraging me to let out all those swear words is a healthy, healthy thing, even if it makes me a pain in Dr. Shades' ass--whom I also love dearly, in my own special, "bitchy" way (as new mod Res Ipsa puts it :lol: :lol: :lol:).

Seriously, though, my connections here mean the world to me. You have introduced me to a world I didn't dare hope existed, and you have encouraged me and motivated me and saved me. Thank you all.


I'm very happy you found a home here, Lemmie. And I'm sorry it's been as frustrating for you as it has.

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― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:32 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
On the personal attack issue, I also think that your post fairly falls within the category of personal attack. In my opinion, your post did not address the subject of the thread and was devotes solely to attacking the character and motivations of MG. But, let me add, the rules also state that we are charged with enforcing the spirit and not the letter of the rules.

I know you are new as a mod, but this is just ____. You want to read posts that do "not address the subject of the thread and [are devoted] solely to attacking the character and motivations..."????

Here let me help you out with that:

mentalgymnast to sanctorian, 2.06,17, wrote:
I've already said it, but I'll say it once more...you're a liar and you make stuff up.

Regards,
MG

mentalgymnast, to multiple posters, 9/17, wrote:
Were you ever an active/believing member of the church? If so, I must say, how far some of the mighty and great ones have fallen.

Same applies to some others here. The hate (Shulem). The liars (Doc and others). The purveyors of sin (pornography, sodomy, etc.)

And a blindness/open rebellion to a creator/God in who's image we are created.

Sad.

Regards,
MG
mentalgymnast, to Lemmie, 2016, wrote:
As I said earlier...I don't know where you're coming from or why you're here. What I do remember is that someone may have asked/said you worked at an academic institution?

Really?

by the way, the wink back a while ago was a 'back atcha'.

I think you are a troll. You sure fit the profile. I was kinda slow to figure it out...my bad.

Can women be trolls? I really thought that was a guy thing. :wink: :smile:

MG

That's a few to get you started, Res Ipsa. But, by all means, continue to talk about my "bitching."


Well, I talked about your "bitching" because it was something going on right in front of me. If I make a comment about you or anyone else, I'm not going recite a list of past misdoings by other folks. I think it's reasonable to address a situation in front of me without having to also discuss stuff months in the past.

I'm quite confident that if I went back through the years of posts, I could find dozens and dozens, if not hundreds of examples of moderation that appears inconsistent. If you've ever moderated a highly contentious forum, I think you'd understand that the appearance of inconsistency is unavoidable. The primary reason for that is that actual consistency over years and years and thousands of posts is impossible. I think I understand the rules and how they are do be administered, and I think I did so correctly in the case of this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Personal attacks from ''transformed archaeology in Mexic
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:33 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:
"Little troll" is a personal attack.


How about itty bitty tiny troll?


I think you have to include "weensy" in there somewhere. :wink:

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​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


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 Post subject: Re: From ''transformed archaeology in Mexico''
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:37 pm 
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You are welcome, Lemmie. When I go back East even today, if the topic of religion comes up (sometimes it does) and Mormons are mentioned. I know without question that the folks I interact with don't understand what the church is about. I tend to say very little because there is no possible way that I can convey all that I have learned and gathered over the 18 years that I've been on these boards.

Folks often ask me why I am even here. A lot of reasons, but mainly, it's the people and their stories. I think that I have had my own experiences that help me to relate. For example, the issue of single parenting. When I was pregnant with our second child, my husband on a one year remote tour over seas, my mother came out to live with me 5 months before the baby was due, she was going to be my birthing coach. My mother died 3 weeks before the baby was born. My husband went back and forth about 3 times, until he got his next duty assignment and I and the children stayed behind until the house sold.

I have never in my life felt so isolated and alone in my life. I was so ____ up with grief and depression that it made me feel completely incompetent. I remember staring out the window wishing I could run away. I was single parenting two children, settling my mother's affairs in Jersey from the West coast, selling her house and our own house, and was robbed of the chance to have even so much as a memorial service for my mother much less was I in a position to travel back East for a service. I never even got to go through her things myself. I stopped opening most of the mail (except for the house bills) about two months in.

I literally begged people to come out to help me. I listened to the doors shut on me one after the other. Until after about 4 months of sheer agony one elderly in-lawish relative who had never had children of her own, came out to me for a couple of weeks and then I was on my own again. Another eventually came out and it was like having a third child in the house. I had a therapist (who I saw only once and then she gave me her private phone # because it was a huge effort for me to get into the base to be seen) ask me if I ever thought of killing myself. My response? "Who would take care of my children?"

I was exhausted, could barely manage to get groceries, I felt like an abandoned piece of ____ and I couldn't hold a conversation or concentrate for very long. I saved what energy I had for my children which was next to no energy at all. I can't stand to look at the photos of me during that time for the faked smile and dark circles under my eyes.

Yeah, I can identify with your story. And Lemmie, I can identify with your strength.

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