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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:52 am 
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MENTALGYMNAST:

As luck would have it, several years ago we did indeed pass a rule against malicious misquotation of board members. However, we had to drop it posthaste when it was pointed out that altering a word or two is a legitimate form of demonstrating when a poster's words are not consistent across multiple circumstances, thus making them logically fallacious. For example:

ORIGINAL POST:

If Joseph Smith said he had a revelation commanding him to practice polygamy, we should believe him because we have no evidence that he's lying.

MALICIOUSLY MISQUOTED POST:

If Warren Jeffs said he had a revelation commanding him to practice polygamy, we should believe him because we have no evidence that he's lying.

Since the person who made the pro-Joseph Smith post most likely doesn't believe that Warren Jeffs is a prophet too, then the malicious misquote demonstrates that the poster's logic is unsound (sort of like how a scientific hypothesis is invalid if the results can't be replicated in every laboratory everywhere).

Therefore, it's a legitimate form of argumentation.

NEVERTHELESS, I recognize that malicious misquotation isn't always--or, worse, is rarely--used in such an altruistic fashion. Often we'll have examples of what you pointed out grindael is doing. To hopefully counteract that, I respectfully requested that the malicious misquoter add a note or otherwise make it obvious that the "quote" isn't the quoted person's original words.

But for our purposes today, yeah, I really wish that grindael hadn't done that and think it's way below him. But at the same time, there's NO WAY IN EARTH, HEAVEN, OR HELL that anyone is going to read his quoted material and think that those were your original words. They're FAR too over-the-top for anyone to take seriously. So you're safe. They're his way of lashing out at your continued badgering and are indicative that he's reached the end of his rope.

For the future, I have three pieces of advice:

  1. Ensure that your posts do not suffer from The Tobin Syndrome. Simply put, don't be a contrarian just to punitively force him to waste his time. If you aren't legitimately confused about something he's saying, then there's no reason to ask for clarification. And if you agree with something he's saying, there's no need to play Devil's Advocate.
  2. Follow Jersey Girl's advice and click the "Report" button if you have a legitimate grievance. DO NOT START ANOTHER GRIEVANCE THREAD, EVER AGAIN. Let this be the last one. The name of this website is "MormonDiscussions.com," not "GrievanceDiscussions.com." In the future, no report = no attention from me.
  3. Grow thicker skin. If something is so over-the-top that there's zero chance that anyone will believe it, then there's no real need to get all wound up about it.

Hopefully this answers your questions.

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:59 am 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
Yes, I did refer to this board as an increasingly hostile place for believers through use of invective language and that sort of thing. I will stick to that. But I will repeat again, there have been and are folks here who I have enjoyed a civil/respectful conversation with. And so, yes, I know it is possible to do so.

I guess I was hoping beyond hope that the Terrestrial Forum could be a place where basic civility could be the norm among all members. I apologise if this thread seems like another "drama stage" for my concerns...but I was curious as to whether lying/misquoting/misrepresentation was an acceptable practice in this forum.

Regards,
MG

Let me point something out to you. You know how when I enter a thread that you're on (which is rare these days) and post criticism or a sarcastic remark and you imply that I, Lemmie and others are acting in concert like a gang? I believe you referred to it as gang rape. (You enormous ass who is now calling for civility when it suits you)

Have you never noticed how many times Lemmie and I go head to head at each other on this board, most often down in Paradise? Of course not.

There are some very strong personalities on this board and very good heads. I don't claim for a single second that one of the good heads belongs to me. That said, when people with strong personalities and good heads are forwarding their position in the face of opposition, you're going to generate heat off the friction.

And yet, neither Lemmie or I makes public complaints about each other like you have here and end up on some other thread enjoying a bit of humor or as is the case on this thread, in agreement with each other about a thing.

Besides the fact that we're magic like that, there's an unspoken understanding that heated exchanges aren't fatal. They constitute strong differences of opinion, the dynamic interaction between two pretty darn assertive women, and that's how we roll. Hell, Shades and I go at it, Cam and I go at it. We could be doing that in one thread and agreeing with each other on another thread at the same time. Ain't nobody gonna die from it. I actually love the intellectual stimulation of maintaining a position of opposition on one thread and swinging back and forth between that and more friendly or agreeable exchanges.

Your problem is that you enter a serious or valued thread, throw out a hook or screw it up with your idea of humor, and when you get blowback you make these types of public appeals. Nobody is going to take it seriously when you cry wolf.

Hey some guy called me the c-word a while back. Did you see me making a public appeal on this board? Nope. I made my decision about how to handle it and moved on.

I encourage you to move on.

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:06 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
To hopefully counteract that, I respectfully requested that the malicious misquoter add a note or otherwise make it obvious that the "quote" isn't the quoted person's original words.

Like
Channeling MG wrote:
Blah, blah, blah.

That's one way to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:08 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
DO NOT START ANOTHER GRIEVANCE THREAD, EVER AGAIN. Let this be the last one.

God bless us one and all!

:cool:

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:11 pm 
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I have a question wrote:
Lemmie wrote:
I mentioned earlier that we have a fantastic opportunity here to observe a historian as he researches and develops his work, but mentalgymnast takes every opportunity to derail and disparage that, over and over and over. He seems to delight in provoking grindael, and his self-righteous victimhood stance after he does is about as dishonest as it is possible to be on this board.

I don't know enough about the mechanics of a board to know if this is possible, but given that mentalgymnast's repeated trolling of grindael is approaching Tobin levels, I would like to propose to Dr. Shades that mentalgymnast not be allowed to post on any thread grindael starts.

Fabulous idea.

Perhaps the genuine and reflective mentalgymnast could even volunteer to honour that suggestion and then watch as his much wailed about misquoting problem miraculously disappears....but I won’t hold my breath.

I'm good with that. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, grindael made the same commitment in regards to participating on threads that I start.

I can honor that request. It would probably work out better for everyone concerned.

by the way, here is a link to the original thread...and my post...that resulted in grindael's reaction and subsequent misquoting, name calling, etc.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47363

Maybe I crossed a line, maybe not. But I did feel like the point I was making needed to be made.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Besides the fact that we're magic like that,

:biggrin:
Jersey Girl wrote:
there's an unspoken understanding that heated exchanges aren't fatal. They constitute strong differences of opinion, the dynamic interaction between two pretty darn assertive women, and that's how we roll.

YES!!


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:17 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
I encourage you to move on.

I'm good with that. I simply felt that the misquoting issue was worth raising...so I did. I believe it is/was wrong for grindael to act out like this and get away with it.

I believe that it would be helpful from here on out for grindael and me to stay away from each other's threads. Too much heat is often the result. :wink:

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
Follow Jersey Girl's advice and click the "Report" button if you have a legitimate grievance. DO NOT START ANOTHER GRIEVANCE THREAD, EVER AGAIN. Let this be the last one. In the future, no report = no attention from me.

Got it. Thanks for your considered response Dr. Shades. At the time I believed the issue of misquotation/misrepresentation needed to be put out there for other board members to see.

But I will not make those sorts of 'behavior/ethical' issues (that I see as roadblocks to civil discussion) public in the form of starting a "grievance thread, ever again".

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:26 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
by the way, here is a link to the original thread...and my post...that resulted in grindael's reaction and subsequent misquoting, name calling, etc.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47363

Maybe I crossed a line, maybe not. But I did feel like the point I was making needed to be made.

Regards,
MG

Here are quotes from two of your first posts on that thread you linked to.

mentalgymnast wrote:
You can wear out your life trying to disprove the BofM...which apparently you are well on your way to doing. In my opinion there will always continue to be evidence/counter evidence.

You are playing out your part/purpose in the scheme of things.

I know you want this thread to go other directions...so I'll leave you to it. :smile:

Regards,
MG

mentalgymnast wrote:
grindael wrote:
...will you provide a RATIONAL reason why? ...

Hi grindael, you continually come back to "rational" thinking.

Might I suggest you listen to this podcast?

https://onbeing.org/programs/daniel-kah ... r-oct2017/

You are not being rational. It's not humanly possible.

Again, I would just as well let you go down the road that you would like to on this thread.
I was simply making a point that I believed needed to be made before you traveled down your chosen path any further.

But I'm not stopping you. :wink: Carry on.

Regards,
MG

Look at what you did. Not only did you inject personal remarks directed at the poster, you make these stupid ass denial remarks about what the impact of those remarks were to the topic itself. Your claims are completely contradicted by your behavior.

I know you want this thread to go other directions...so I'll leave you to it. :smile:

But you DON'T leave him to it. You don't have the sense God gave you to keep your own word.

Again, I would just as well let you go down the road that you would like to on this thread.

But you DIDN'T accommodate his purpose.

But I'm not stopping you. :wink: Carry on.

YES, you were stopping him. You started jamming personal remarks and value statements about HIM into his thread. You irritated the ____ out of the guy and when he acted on his irritation, you cried wolf.

Do you lack that much self awareness? Own it for god sakes.

Own your part in the situation.

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:29 pm 
God

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Dr. Shades wrote:
To hopefully counteract that, I respectfully requested that the malicious misquoter add a note or otherwise make it obvious that the "quote" isn't the quoted person's original words.

As do I.
Jersey Girl wrote:
Like
Channeling MG wrote:
Blah, blah, blah.

Not quite sure this really helps. What's with this "channeling" thing?

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:30 pm 
God

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Jersey Girl wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:
DO NOT START ANOTHER GRIEVANCE THREAD, EVER AGAIN. Let this be the last one.

God bless us one and all!

:cool:

AMEN.


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:37 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
Channeling MG wrote:
Blah, blah, blah.

Not quite sure this really helps. What's with this "channeling" thing?

Regards,
MG

It's when a person speaks through a psychic medium. On boards, it's used when a poster wants to emulate the style of another poster.

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:38 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
You irritated the ____ out of the guy and when he acted on his irritation, you cried wolf.

Do you lack that much self awareness? Own it for god sakes.

Own your part in the situation.

I suppose, using hindsight, that after my initial post I would have been better served...and also grindael...if I had not responded to his further posts that were directed at me. I did respond, and that apparently further infuriated him.

I could have extinguished the fire by not feeding and/or commenting on his response(s) to me.

grindael and I are kind of like oil and water...we really don't mix well at all. :sad:

Lesson learned. Hold me to it!

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:38 pm 
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I'm not planning to continue replying here to you, MG. I've got fish frying in the pan down in Paradise that I want to get to.

If I return, I return. Not right now though.

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:44 pm 
God

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Jersey Girl wrote:
MG wrote:
Not quite sure this really helps. What's with this "channeling" thing?

It's when a person speaks through a psychic medium.

I know that.

Jersey Girl wrote:
On boards, it's used when a poster wants to emulate the style of another poster.

Got that too. I suppose I'm failing to understand as to why it was used as an "emulating style" in this instance.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:45 pm 
God

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Jersey Girl wrote:
I'm not planning to continue replying here to you, MG.

If I return, I return. Not right now though.

Same here.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:07 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
Tator, I saw your post. Yes, I saw the "bullseye" post. Thanks for your question/input. And yes, Doc, I do read the posts. Thanks also for you contribution.

To both of you...do you have any concerns with continued and purposeful misquotation over a multiplicity of threads (see links in the opening post) of another person on this board...which is, in essence, a form of lying?

Regards,
MG

MentalPretzel, I have a couple comments/observations/views/opinions/thoughts:

I saw it as humor/sarcasm/an exaggeration that was lost on you.
The Grin has your number and your goat.
You don't like to look in a mirror.
You are far too thin skinned.
You love to wawawawawawawa cry and wawawawawawawa whine about everything.
For as many times that you display your butthurts one would think you would have calluses by now.
I think you are a little boy crying wolf.

And, yes, I am a pain in the butt.

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:22 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:43 pm 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
Lesson learned. Hold me to it!

Regards,
MG

Hold YOURSELF to it, you helpless ass.

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:45 pm 
God

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Tator wrote:
The Grin has your number and your goat.

The two things that bother me are his rampant usage of potty mouth language...which I have mentioned that I've come to accept as being part and parcel of who he is on the inside...and the multiple examples of misquotation. Yes, maybe it's meant to be 'funny', but nonetheless it's taking someone else's words, changing them, and quoting them as if it is the original poster saying those words. I simply don't think that's the right thing to do...and I made that known.

Tator wrote:
And, yes, I am a pain in the butt.

I'm sure you're not always that way. :wink:

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:47 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
Image


I think some good came out of bringing this issue up. Drama wasn't and isn't my intent. That is the perception of others...such as yourself.

Your input is noted.

Regards,
MG


Last edited by mentalgymnast on Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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