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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:29 pm 
God
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mentalgymnast wrote:

I took a look at some of those. Which posts did you report to admin?

Quote:
I am being continually harassed by a board member who is misquoting me and then making light of it.

You just called it "malicious misquotation" in the OP title and in the intro, referred to it as "silliness".

Pick a spot and land on it. It's either malicious or silly. It can't be both.

Quote:
Is that something we want to see happen here? Does it move us in the direction of safe/productive discussion? I let this member have the last word on the four threads in question because it is a total waste of time to engage him further.

Is holding your hand in group therapy something we want to see happen here when you create yet another thread to draw attention to yourself instead of using the...report button?

Quote:
Is this acceptable behavior? If so, I think we have one more reason that folks are unwilling to participate on this board. If they can't safely say what they want to say without being harassed through misattribution/misquoting, I think there are some real problems.

But that's just me. Others? What say ye?

I say you use the...report button.

Quote:
All four threads are pretty much blown up. Yes, I responded to the other board member. But what would you do if you were being misquoted and in essence, mocked? Isn't willful and malicious misquotation a form of lying?

I'd use the...report button.

Quote:
Is this board going to protect their own...or protect everyone?

You should take that up with admin by using the...report button.

Quote:
If we don't feel safe, can we have a civil discussion?

Regards,
MG

If you don't feel safe (whatever that means in practice) then let admin know by using the...report button.

Stop posting these drama threads of yours. Use the...report button.

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:16 pm 
The Outcast

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mentalgymnast wrote:
Tator wrote:
I do my very best to keep the MentalPretzel on my mental ignore.

I'm totally cool with that. I have not ever had a conversation with you that sticks as having been memorable in any kind of productive way. There are some folks that I've been able to learn things from. You, unfortunately, are not one of them.

You are basically a pain in the butt.

Wow, I'm not really helping my cause by saying that to you am I? :wink:

Regards,
MG

Tator, that's a badge you should wear with pride and honor.


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:18 pm 
The Outcast

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sock puppet wrote:
Sanctorian wrote:
MG, I’m fairly confident I’ve said this before, but let me take this opportunity to say it if I haven’t. At some point, the onus and flow of the discussion falls on you. No one comes to your defense simply because you have religiously shown you can’t maintain civil discourse through your style of posting. I’m not talking about language or even your belief in Mormonism. It’s your inability to understand when the discussion breaks down it’s almost exclusively your fault.

Until you can take ownership and recognize you are the source of your own problem here, no one will ever defend your position.

Where's apostle Christofferson when MG needs him most?


mentalgymnast wrote:
Thanks for your input, sock puppet.

So far, so good.

I guess...

It looks like what we've seen and observed in the four threads I've linked to seems to be acceptable and even supported by those that have responded thus far.

Regards,
MG

You did catch why I picked Christofferson for you among all 15, right?


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:43 pm 
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MG you should already know how the board works. In case you've been posting here for years and ignored the fact that we have measures in place that you can take to address board issues and mediate conflict without creating personal drama post after personal drama post, boring us all out of our flippin' minds, here's the deal:

The board rules can be accessed from every forum here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26

If you believe that a rule has been violated, you use the...report button (red exclamation mark icon) in the lower right corner of the post in question to make a report to moderators.

Our current mod team is Dr. Shades and EAllusion.

And then you let them handle it.

It's that simple.

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:21 pm 
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Mentalgymnast, sometimes posters here do take upon themselves the role of Mean Girls. I suspect they would find themselves deploring that same behavior on the old MAD board and would disagree with the piling on behavior that occurred there. That is why it seems both quizzical and ironic when it occurs here.

You should quote them that line for the Desiderata where it says, "Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story... there will always be greater and lesser persons than yourself". The Golden Rule is desirable on message boards.

The first post on the Shades board should have started, "Give me your poor huddled masses yearning to breath free...".

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:38 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
MG you should already know how the board works. In case you've been posting here for years and ignored the fact that we have measures in place that you can take to address board issues and mediate conflict without creating personal drama post after personal drama post, boring us all out of our flippin' minds, here's the deal:

The board rules can be accessed from every forum here:

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... p?f=1&t=26

If you believe that a rule has been violated, you use the...report button (red exclamation mark icon) in the lower right corner of the post in question to make a report to moderators.

Our current mod team is Dr. Shades and EAllusion.

And then you let them handle it.

It's that simple.


This.

Amen, Jersey Girl. It's this kind of crap that makes me glad I'm not a Mod here anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:49 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
MG you should already know how the board works. In case you've been posting here for years and ignored the fact that we have measures in place that you can take to address board issues and mediate conflict without creating personal drama post after personal drama post, boring us all out of our flippin' minds, here's the deal:

The board rules can be accessed from every forum here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26

If you believe that a rule has been violated, you use the...report button (red exclamation mark icon) in the lower right corner of the post in question to make a report to moderators.

Our current mod team is Dr. Shades and EAllusion.

And then you let them handle it.

It's that simple.


But, as far as I can tell, MG doesn’t want the issue he has with one single poster resolved. If he did, as you rightly point out, there is a board mechanism (a very effective one) for dealing with it. So the only conclusion I can come to is that, once again, MG is seeking to suck the whole board into a self induced drama at which he is the victimised centre of attention. It’s Trolling For Dummies.

The simplest thing he could do, is place Grindael on ‘ignore’. End of problem for MG. But no, instead let’s start a drama thread.

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Last edited by I have a question on Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:49 am 
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Let me also add..since I have been a Mod, and so has Jersey Girl..Mods have lives. So after you do report a post, give Shades and EAllusion an actual chance to respond. It might take them a couple of days to study the situation and decide what they are going to do. Plus, they both have full time jobs. This board is volunteer.

If you don't get a response after about 3 days, politely PM them. They are both very good about responding to a PM.

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:03 am 
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I have a question wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
MG you should already know how the board works. In case you've been posting here for years and ignored the fact that we have measures in place that you can take to address board issues and mediate conflict without creating personal drama post after personal drama post, boring us all out of our flippin' minds, here's the deal:

The board rules can be accessed from every forum here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26

If you believe that a rule has been violated, you use the...report button (red exclamation mark icon) in the lower right corner of the post in question to make a report to moderators.

Our current mod team is Dr. Shades and EAllusion.

And then you let them handle it.

It's that simple.


But, as far as I can tell, MG doesn’t want the issue he has with one single poster resolved. If he did, as you rightly point out, there is a board mechanism (a very effective one) for dealing with it. So the only conclusion I can come to is that, once again, MG is seeking to suck the whole board into a self induced drama at which he is the victimised centre of attention. It’s Trolling For Dummies.

and unfortunately, it seems to be an Unlimited Edition.


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:37 am 
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I'd like to remind anyone who is currently butthurt that there's a Celestial forum that is heavily moderated toward polite discourse. You're always free to post content there and try to make that the go-to place for discussion that aligns with your worldview.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:12 am 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
Not upset as much as disappointed in where this board has gone. It has indeed become somewhat of a cesspool and echo chamber for disgruntled folks. A lot of negativity. But then, maybe that's what a majority of people thrive on around here. So be it.

Yet you spend so much time responding to it while at the same time avoiding the substance. It's hard to have sympathy for you.

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:16 am 
The Outcast

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Themis wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:
Not upset as much as disappointed in where this board has gone. It has indeed become somewhat of a cesspool and echo chamber for disgruntled folks. A lot of negativity. But then, maybe that's what a majority of people thrive on around here. So be it.

Yet you spend so much time responding to it while at the same time avoiding the substance. It's hard to have sympathy for you.

Bull's eye!


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:21 am 
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Jesse Pinkman wrote:
Let me also add..since I have been a Mod, and so has Jersey Girl..Mods have lives. So after you do report a post, give Shades and EAllusion an actual chance to respond. It might take them a couple of days to study the situation and decide what they are going to do. Plus, they both have full time jobs. This board is volunteer.

If you don't get a response after about 3 days, politely PM them. They are both very good about responding to a PM.


OK. There have been some helpful posts. I suppose that this is pretty much an issue between one other poster...in the main...and myself. With the last 'go around' I did report to Shades and he responded appropriately...in the main...to that situation. I told him that I would just as well leave him alone and not bug him too often. Yes, I know he has a life. :smile:

I felt like it was appropriate to bring the issue of misquotation before the whole board to see what the opinions were in regards to posters misrepresenting what others are saying. I see that as a form of lying. And I was curious as to whether or not others viewed this sort of things as wrong. I haven't seen much at all in response to that question. That is the main purpose I created this thread.

At this point, I guess it may be a safe assumption to make that misquotation and misrepresentation of what another person is actually saying on this board and doing so in a mocking tone/manner is good to go. If so, I must strongly disagree with that group consensus. Although, truth be told, since that particular issue that the OP is specifically referring to hasn't really been addressed, I can't be sure whether or not others believe this practice of misquotation is inappropriate or not.

It is THAT issue that I think has ramifications for the civil discourse and future of this board in which active members feel free to enter into discussions without fear of being misrepresented and lied about.

But then again, maybe misquotation such as we can see in the four recent threads I linked to isn't a form of lying?

The potty mouth stuff is pretty much par for the course from the poster I am referring to. I've basically come to realize that this is just who he is and what's inside him. But it's the topic of this OP that I'm mainly concerned with at this point. Thus the OP title.

Yes, I did refer to this board as an increasingly hostile place for believers through use of invective language and that sort of thing. I will stick to that. But I will repeat again, there have been and are folks here who I have enjoyed a civil/respectful conversation with. And so, yes, I know it is possible to do so.

I guess I was hoping beyond hope that the Terrestrial Forum could be a place where basic civility could be the norm among all members. I apologise if this thread seems like another "drama stage" for my concerns...but I was curious as to whether lying/misquoting/misrepresentation was an acceptable practice in this forum.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:37 am 
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MG did you read the Bull's Eye post above? I don't think so.

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:44 am 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
At this point, I guess it may be a safe assumption to make that misquotation and misrepresentation of what another person is actually saying on this board and doing so in a mocking tone/manner is good to go. If so, I must strongly disagree with that group consensus. Although, truth be told, since that particular issue that the OP is specifically referring to hasn't really been addressed, I can't be sure whether or not others believe this practice of misquotation is inappropriate or not.

Regards,
MG

What steps could you take which would resolve or improve the situation you are complaining about, which wouldn’t be dependant on action(s) from anybody else? (Remember, this is about what you alone could do, without requiring any action or change from anyone else, but which would make your situation outlined in the OP better - which I’m assuming is what you want the outcome to be).

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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:05 am 
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Tator wrote:
MG did you read...

Ha. Now that's funny.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:32 am 
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I have a question wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:
At this point, I guess it may be a safe assumption to make that misquotation and misrepresentation of what another person is actually saying on this board and doing so in a mocking tone/manner is good to go. If so, I must strongly disagree with that group consensus. Although, truth be told, since that particular issue that the OP is specifically referring to hasn't really been addressed, I can't be sure whether or not others believe this practice of misquotation is inappropriate or not.

Regards,
MG


What steps could you take which would resolve or improve the situation you are complaining about, which wouldn’t be dependant on action(s) from anybody else?
(Remember, this is about what you alone could do, without requiring any action or change from anyone else, but which would make your situation outlined in the OP better - which I’m assuming is what you want the outcome to be).


That's a good question for which I don't have a ready answer. That's why I'm bringing up the issue to others. So far, basically crickets.

If I go the ignore route, that doesn't stop the poster from misquoting/lying. I am still being misrepresented. It is THAT issue that I think needs to be resolved.

Tator, I saw your post. Yes, I saw the "bullseye" post. Thanks for your question/input. And yes, Doc, I do read the posts. Thanks also for you contribution.

To both of you...do you have any concerns with continued and purposeful misquotation over a multiplicity of threads (see links in the OP) of another person on this board...which is, in essence, a form of lying?

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:53 am 
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mentalgymnast's misrepresentation of the facts is ridiculous. He did his usual trolling, and picked at grindael repeatedly--see the 15 or so posts on grindael's inconsistency thread for just one example--- until grindael responded.

Re: his other self-righteous complaints, Mental's cleanflix-based "potty mouth" is as offensive as anyone else he is complaining about, and his lies about this situation are egregious. The fact that he repeatedly calls grindael a liar without acknowledging his own mocking, trolling, and provoking behavior is disingenuous and dishonest.

Dr. Shades has responded before to mentalgymnast's incessant trolling of grindael, and his assessment is STILL spot on:
Dr. Shades, 12/2016, re: mentalgymnast, wrote:
....Yet at a certain point, being a contrarian simply for the sake of being a contrarian, even when one is technically ON-topic, counts as "trolling." And trolling is a derailment....

This is what happened to Tobin. He was always on-topic, but his contrarian-ness became not so much to provide the LDS point of view (as he did at the beginning) as it was to distract and annoy the opening poster (in my reasoned opinion). That's why I had to place his posts on the queue....

Mentalgymnast's posts in grindael's most recent threads clearly suffered from "The Tobin Syndrome."

viewtopic.php?p=1018463#p1018463
[emphasis added]

I mentioned earlier that we have a fantastic opportunity here to observe a historian as he researches and develops his work, but mentalgymnast takes every opportunity to derail and disparage that, over and over and over. He seems to delight in provoking grindael, and his self-righteous victimhood stance after he does is about as dishonest as it is possible to be on this board.

I don't know enough about the mechanics of a board to know if this is possible, but given that mentalgymnast's repeated trolling of grindael is approaching Tobin levels, I would like to propose to Dr. Shades that mentalgymnast not be allowed to post on any thread grindael starts.


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:56 am 
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mentalgymnast wrote:
That's a good question for which I don't have a ready answer. That's why I'm bringing up the issue to others. So far, basically crickets.

If I go the ignore route, that doesn't stop the poster from misquoting/lying. I am still being misrepresented. It is THAT issue that I think needs to be resolved.

So what? Do you think people cannot see the adjustment made to your original posts when grindael decides to retire-write your words?

*From my understanding (and I stand to be corrected), I believe the Terrestrial forum allows for a posters words to be re-worded when quoting - providing the changes are explicitly made obvious to the reader.

Quote:
To both of you...do you have any concerns with continued and purposeful misquotation over a multiplicity of threads (see links in the OP) of another person on this board...which is, in essence, a form of lying?

Regards,
MG

I think the issue is much deeper than grindaels current penchant for amending your words. Perhaps, if you try really hard, you might be able to consider where it comes from originally and what you might have done to prompt it. Give it some thought. (Or just read Lemmies post above, where she nails it).

Deliberately Misquoting without making it clearly manifest that you are deliberately misquoting is wrong. As is stone throwing by people in glasshouses.

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― Daniel Kahneman, Nobel Prize Winner, 'Thinking, Fast and Slow'


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:01 am 
God

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Lemmie wrote:
I mentioned earlier that we have a fantastic opportunity here to observe a historian as he researches and develops his work, but mentalgymnast takes every opportunity to derail and disparage that, over and over and over. He seems to delight in provoking grindael, and his self-righteous victimhood stance after he does is about as dishonest as it is possible to be on this board.

I don't know enough about the mechanics of a board to know if this is possible, but given that mentalgymnast's repeated trolling of grindael is approaching Tobin levels, I would like to propose to Dr. Shades that mentalgymnast not be allowed to post on any thread grindael starts.

Fabulous idea.

Perhaps the genuine and reflective mentalgymnast could even volunteer to honour that suggestion and then watch as his much wailed about misquoting problem miraculously disappears....but I won’t hold my breath.

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― Daniel Kahneman, Nobel Prize Winner, 'Thinking, Fast and Slow'


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 Post subject: Re: A rule against malicious misquotation of board members?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:25 am 
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Lemmie wrote:
mentalgymnast's misrepresentation of the facts is ridiculous. He did his usual trolling, and picked at grindael repeatedly--see the 15 or so posts on grindael's inconsistency thread for just one example--- until grindael responded.

Re: his other self-righteous complaints, Mental's cleanflix-based "potty mouth" is as offensive as anyone else he is complaining about, and his lies about this situation are egregious. The fact that he repeatedly calls grindael a liar without acknowledging his own mocking, trolling, and provoking behavior is disingenuous and dishonest.

Dr. Shades has responded before to mentalgymnast's incessant trolling of grindael, and his assessment is STILL spot on:
Dr. Shades, 12/2016, re: mentalgymnast, wrote:
....Yet at a certain point, being a contrarian simply for the sake of being a contrarian, even when one is technically ON-topic, counts as "trolling." And trolling is a derailment....

This is what happened to Tobin. He was always on-topic, but his contrarian-ness became not so much to provide the LDS point of view (as he did at the beginning) as it was to distract and annoy the opening poster (in my reasoned opinion). That's why I had to place his posts on the queue....

Mentalgymnast's posts in grindael's most recent threads clearly suffered from "The Tobin Syndrome."

viewtopic.php?p=1018463#p1018463
[emphasis added]

I mentioned earlier that we have a fantastic opportunity here to observe a historian as he researches and develops his work, but mentalgymnast takes every opportunity to derail and disparage that, over and over and over. He seems to delight in provoking grindael, and his self-righteous victimhood stance after he does is about as dishonest as it is possible to be on this board.

I don't know enough about the mechanics of a board to know if this is possible, but given that mentalgymnast's repeated trolling of grindael is approaching Tobin levels, I would like to propose to Dr. Shades that mentalgymnast not be allowed to post on any thread grindael starts.


Various atypical methods of moderation have been used around here in the past to deal with specific situations. Your proposal is something that could be seen as feasible, however, it does circumvent free speech.

Wasn't it you in another comment that proposed MG be put on mod queue? If that is the case, I fully support that idea.

What you'll see time and time again is that when there is community conflict, that Shades will let the discussion develop and come in later if he sees fit to do so. He's also been known to ultimately create his own thread asking for community feedback. Recall that he did so with ldsfaqs.

It's hard to know if he's reading this thread because he hasn't commented. My guess is that he has and that he wants to see if the posters reach a consensus on their own.

The best way to deal with this is for MG to use the report button or shoot a PM to Shades to discuss. There doesn't need to be this kind of hand-holding disruption of the board.

MG calls for protection, he wants an environment where he's safe from uncivilized content.

I only hope he never makes it down to Paradise, where folks go toe to toe on a fairly regular basis.

:lol:

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