Finally, the man is dead. He will pay a heavy price for his wickedness.

Sandra Tanner will suffer hellfire too. She will realize this the moment her spirit leaves her body.

Paul O

All you who disagree with me can go to hell too!

Paul O

Hi, Paul! I'm glad you found your way over here.

I really, really love it when a person is passionate about his/her beliefs. That's why people such as yourself, Mike Norton, and Samuel the Utahnite will always have a special place in my heart, regardless of the negative flack they get from other people.

I'm glad there's finally a place where people can "let it all hang out."

Now, as to your comment, I appreciate that that's what the church teaches about apostasy, but let's think this over for a little bit. In the Mormon system, would a merciful God really assign to eternal torment a person who was good and sincere but was merely mistaken? I mean, if Jerald really, truly thought the LDS church was true yet went around trying to destroy it, that would be one thing. But since he honestly believed he was doing God's will by exposing what he believed was the truth about an organization that he was sincerely convinced was leading people away from Christ, wouldn't God look upon the heart?

Shades,

Yes, I believe sincere people can be quite wicked. I think Catholic priests who baptize babies are in the gull of bitterness and bonds of iniquity. The great and abominable church has a host of wicked members. Many of these are sincere, but remain in their sins, and the Spirit of the Lord has no place in them. Their god is nothing more than a polluted idol or the vain imagination of their hard hearts.

I could quote the Book of Mormon all night long describing the wickedness of false religions and moreover, apostates. No need to sugarcoat the fate of what awaits those who fight against the Church of the Lamb – their fate is awful! It pisses me off when sweet talking LDS people come along and say flowery things about the wicked as if we all lived in yellow submarine singing Beatle songs. I fear too many LDS people are afraid to speak the truth because they are yellow in their bellies. Many Latter-day Saints don't really believe the Book of Mormon.

Paul O

Paul, I don't even recall anyone from FARMS wishing Jerald Tanner to "burn in hell". I said on MTT I didn't think you were a zealot. Seems like you're proving me wrong.

What was his "wickedness"? He tried to be true to what he believed, and to my knowledge he never ridiculed Mormons. Does disagreement consitute wickedness?

As will we all.

But, Paul O, you should be more concerned with the price you will pay than rejoicing in Jerald Tanner's fate. Besides, was he truly a wicked man? Or merely a foolish one?

Hi Ray.

Well, I doubt FARMS people would express their relief publicly that the man is now dead. Me, on the other hand, am glad when anyone who fights against the Lord’s Church is removed from planet earth. That goes for all wicked people of all creeds.

Paul O

He was wicked. He sought to destroy the Lord's Church. He did so because he had the spirit of the devil. That same spirit that possessed him in life has now possessed him in the spirit world. He is damned and must face the wrath of the Lamb of God. All those who fight against the Church will face the wrath of God. It matters not whether they are sincere or not. They have an evil spirit.

The Lord has made it perfectly clear that one who seeks to tear down the work of God is wicked - even Martin Harris:

D&C 3: 12

And when thou deliveredst up that which God had given thee sight and power to translate, thou deliveredst up that which was sacred into the hands of a wicked man,

D&C 10: 1, 7

NOW, behold, I say unto you, that because you delivered up those writings which you had power given unto you to translate by the means of the Urim and Thummim, into the hands of a wicked man, you have lost them

And for this cause I said that he is a wicked man, for he has sought to take away the things wherewith you have been entrusted; and he has also sought to destroy your gift.

Paul O

Yes, too many people see disagreement as wickedness. Look at what is going on in the world. If you are not for something then you are against it, you are anti. We both know that is not true.

What scares me is people that still refuse to see that this world is big enough for all of us to live in peacefully, what kind of world would this be if we all agreed on everything and we were all one religion?

I thought we were a nation built on religious freedom and choice, I thought we all had free will, but we don't, that fact is made obvious by people like Paul Osborne.

Everyone must believe in one way and in one God.
We might as well become robots with no mind of our own, because we are not allowed to use our own free will and make our own choices.

I will be burning in Hell with Mr. Tanner, because I am not afraid to exercise my free will. I am seen as an anti for many reasons, not just because of my lack of religion. I cannot follow blindly just because.

Wait a minute, Paul. You're saying that the Catholic Church is "the great and abominable church"? Or are you saying that anyone who belongs to a church other than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is part of the great and abominable church?

I can't believe that someone who is as knowledgable about the scriptures can be this obtuse when it comes to the gospel and compassion.

No one can judge a man's heart. You're saying that a Catholic priest, who honestly believes his Church is right is wicked? What do you think the purpose of baptisms for the dead are, Paul? They are designed so that people who haven't had the opportunity to hear the gospel can be baptised!

I think you need to temper your sense of justice with a little more mercy.

You've got a point there.



How do you know?

How do you know that Catholicism isn't the Lord's church, and you were out trying to destroy it by leading people away from it while on your mission?



By disbelieving in the Lord's church--the Catholic church--how do you know that you don't have the spirit of the Devil?



Why are you so sure you're not one of them?



Then the Lord sure changed His mind quickly by calling Martin Harris to be a witness to the Book of Mormon. Besides, didn't Martin Harris pay for the Book of Mormon by mortgaging his farm? Doesn't sound like something a wicked person would do, does it?

Are you for real or are you posing as a Mormon to make fun of them? If the former, you are one sick bastard. If you were born a Muslim, I have no doubt you would eagerly volunteer to be a suicide bomber.

Anyone who disagrees with Jesus Christ and chooses unrighteousness is paving a road into the broad gates of destruction and shutting themselves out of the celestial kingdom. The prophets are ordained to tell mankind what Jesus Christ has to say. They interpret scripture and expound upon all things pertaining to the gospel. Disagree with them and you will disagree with the one who sent them.



We can tolerate differences in religion. The USA is a nation of free religion – as well it should be. You do have free will to choose for yourselves! But your choices can lead you straight to hell if you choose wickedness. The scriptures and the prophets will tell you what wickedness is and how it will bring the judgment of God. Yes, you have freedom of choice – but will pay a price for that choice.



You have the right to make your own choices and do according to your will. But when judgment comes the party is over. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will tell you how to live the gospel and what you have to do to gain celestial glory. You don't have to do those things. You don't have to choose to believe in the LDS version. No one has to believe in Jesus Christ if they choose not too.



You may very well burn in hell with Mr. Tanner if you do the things to deserve that penalty. You have the right to make choices according to the desires of your heart. Rest assured thought that the prophets and scriptures have already laid down the law. That is what I believe and I have every right to believe these things and preach them.

Paul O

There are only two churches. One is the church of the Lamb and the other is the church of the devil. I learned that by reading the Book of Mormon. The Catholic church is part of the church of the devil. Islam is part of the church of the devil. All false religious organizations are of the church of the devil.



Read the scriptures more carefully. The Savior taught that those who enter into the broad gates of wickedness are headed to destruction. The Savior taught about hellfire, damnation, and eternal torment for those who pervert the right ways of the Lord.

My compassion will not allow sin. The Lord will not allow sin either. Repent or perish! There are many who allow sin all in the name of “compassion”. I trust you aren't one of them.



We can judge another by their fruits. By their fruits we shall know them and by their evil fruits they are condemned. The Book of Mormon reveals that those who teach for the doctrine of baptizing babies know not the Christ. They are in bonds of inquity. I believe the Book of Mormon to be the work of God. Do you?

We baptize for the dead hoping that spirits on the other side will accept the ordinances on condition of their repentence. No one will enter into the celestial kingdom believing that little children need baptism. Either they forsake this wicked doctrine or will be judged according to the thoughts and intents of their hearts - along with their deeds.



I prefer to stick with the teachings of the prophets and point out what will happen to mankind if they do not repent.

Paul O

Because I have a testimony of the restored gospel and believe the teachings of the Book of Mormon. The Catholic church has the spririt of the devil because of its perverted doctrine. It will prevent many souls from entering into the celestial kingdom. They scatter abroad while the restored church is gathering as many as will come out of Babylon.



Because I have a testimony given me from the Mormon Holy Ghost. God has not left me without witnesses.



Repenence brings forgiveness. The Lord is quick to forget our sins when we repent. He is bound to bless us when we do what he says.

Paul O

I'm dead serious although I'm not dead yet. Which reminds me, they (the wicked) crucified the Christ for being serious and teaching against sin.

Paul O

OK, Paul, so you are allowing for the idea that they have the opportunity to accept the gospel. If this is the case, then I misunderstood your previous statement. It sounded like you were saying that all Catholic priests were automatically evil and would therefore be damned, even if they honestly did not know that their practices were contrary to the gospel.



Yes, I do believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. I honestly do not remember the specific quote you are referring to. Would you mind providing me with a reference where it states that those who baptize babies are in the bonds of iniquity? I understand the statement about those teaching this doctrine do not know Christ, but does that necessarily mean that these people are evil, or does it mean that they simply do not know the teachings of Christ and need to be taught? Hmmm....the concept of missionary work comes to mind. ;)

I'm not much of a "rules" fan so I'll admit that I didn't really read the little disclaimer when I signed up to the new forum. Is it against "the rules" for me to say that this Osborne fella is a total ____ whack job? Is he for real or some sort of exagerated Mormon/Special Olympian that one of you other guys made up? Nobody could possibly be that stupid/fanatical.

Nort

Liz3564,

8 Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me.
9 And after this manner did the Holy Ghost manifest the word of God unto me; wherefore, my beloved son, I know that it is solemn mockery before God, that ye should baptize little children.
10 Behold I say unto you that this thing shall ye teach—repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of committing sin; yea, teach parents that they must repent and be baptized, and humble themselves as their little children, and they shall all be saved with their little children.
11 And their little children need no repentance, neither baptism. Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling the commandments unto the remission of sins.
12 But little children are alive in Christ, even from the foundation of the world; if not so, God is a partial God, and also a changeable God, and a respecter to persons; for how many little children have died without baptism!
13 Wherefore, if little children could not be saved without baptism, these must have gone to an endless hell.
14 Behold I say unto you, that he that supposeth that little children need baptism is in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; for he hath neither faith, hope, nor charity; wherefore, should he be cut off while in the thought, he must go down to hell.
15 For awful is the wickedness to suppose that God saveth one child because of baptism, and the other must perish because he hath no baptism.
16 Wo be unto them that shall pervert the ways of the Lord after this manner, for they shall perish except they repent. Behold, I speak with boldness, having authority from God; and I fear not what man can do; for perfect love casteth out all fear.

I had a man on my mission scream at me from his doorstep that the road to hell is paved with the skulls of unbaptised children. I think he was catholic.

Anyway, there is your scripture reference from Moroni chp.8

Thanks for looking that up for us, Gazelam. You saved me some time.



Paul Osborne and I go way back. I can unequivocally guarantee that he is a real person, not made up at all.