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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:19 am 
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Lemmie wrote:
Here's a thought. While posting here, just think of women and men as people, equally. That way when a woman responds to a post, you won't do something so utterly gauche as telling her that in doing so, she 'misrepresented' herself as male. Or do you really think only men post here because the women are at home being provided for?

::lol:: I'm just going to quit here, I might misgender Mother Mary, or something.


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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:38 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
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First of all, obviously, either your misrepresented yourself, or I misgendered you, but apparently you were not called to be male.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Either I 'misrepresented myself'??? Omg. Welcome to the board. Read a little before serving up your stupidity so obviously.

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Now, I'm completely confused about how your thoughts on my position on things like abortion and plastic surgery as being some sort of gross abomination of thought. I mean, I was like, "women actually slice and dice themselves up to feel beautiful in our culture." This was met with "how dare you" sort of comments.

Wrong. Although I understand your confusion. How else could you rewrite the story?
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You can call me a "misogynist pig, or even throw racist in there"

No, I didn't throw racist in there. Just misogynistic.
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. . I had to actually delete a couple of clever insults about your upbringing, because, I'm just not that hateful. But just so you know, I don't find you perfect, and I could find ways to blame your parents.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Let's add asshole to misogynist. And I'm giving you credit for those completely. No need to be silly about parents.

Since you mentioned you are "someone that provides for [a woman], and protects my home, and gives the women folk someone to blame for ____," I thought I would quote some of your ____:
spg wrote:
This might surprise you, but we were all females for a little while. You and I, started this life female, but were marked and called to be something a little different. Males.

In a major sense, humanity is female in nature, perhaps our ideals are more masculine. The condition of a culture, in many ways, is reflected in the females. This isn't some twisted hate or blame, but my observations. Right now, as I see it, some males avoided marriage and no one cared. But when masses of the female population are avoiding marriage, it should tell us something. It's not against them, but culture needs family, in my opinion. I think we are pretty confused on a lot of points.


Here's a thought. While posting here, just think of women and men as people, equally. That way when a woman responds to a post, you won't do something so utterly gauche as telling her that in doing so, she 'misrepresented' herself as male. Or do you really think only men post here because the women are at home being provided for?

spg wrote:
::lol:: I'm just going to quit here, I might misgender Mother Mary, or something.

:rolleyes: Right, because that's the issue in your posts. You are afraid that if you treat women and men equally as people, you might accidentally end up thinking "Mother Mary" is the wrong gender. Who knew that interacting with people without falling back on stereotypes could be so scary? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:21 pm 
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SPG wrote:

As for the polygamy comment, cwald, ____ you. If I had been born of a whore, it doesn't qualify you to make comments about my upbringing like that. I thought you had more class then that.

And, I wasn't insulted about polygamy being brought up. I was insulted that he implied my "messed up views" were because of my upbringing. . . . . I had to actually delete a couple of clever insults about your upbringing, because, I'm just not that hateful. But just so you know, I don't find you perfect, and I could find ways to blame your parents.


Wow.

SPG. Where do you think your misogynistic views come from if not from your Mormon culture and upbringing?

I recently listened to the John Larson on John Dehlin Sunstone podcast. One the parts that really stuck out to me was Larsen taking about how we have to be very aware of our Mormon upbringing and how it has shaped our world views. He specifically mentioned the misogynistic and racists past Mormon beliefs and teachings he was exposed too, so he is super aware and hyper focused to make sure he doesn't fall into those pitfalls and traps.

I've talked to my father a couple of times in the past year. Every time he will use the N word multiple times. It shocks me still and I've always know he has a problem with "brown people." When I brought home my Navajo girlfriend, now wife, and told my family we were getting married, his only response was, "well, at least she ain't a n____."

He is a good dude, a great Mormon, and a misogynistic racist. The racist language and attitudes simmer just under the surface and I partially blame the Mormon culture for it. Worse yet is his attitude towards women. Mormonism has a bad bad record when it comes to treating women.

It worries me and makes me very cautious of how I talk and think and I worry that some of that Mormon culture and family traditions have affected me and left their taint.

If you SPG, were to question, say a misogynist comment I made, and ask if it was because of my parents and the my Mormon upbringing, I would not be offended in the least and I think it is a very good topic for discussion and conversation to explore.

Not sure why you exploded and went the other direction. I was not trying insult your parents personally, but I sure as hell don't care if I insulted Mormonism,or your personal Mormon upbringing in a polygamist Mormon church and household.


eta. I'm glad you are up in the Celestial Kingdom discussing these things. You will like it better up there. Especially polygamy conversations. Just my opinion.

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"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson


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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:06 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
]
:rolleyes: Right, because that's the issue in your posts. You are afraid that if you treat women and men equally as people, you might accidentally end up thinking "Mother Mary" is the wrong gender. Who knew that interacting with people without falling back on stereotypes could be so scary? :lol:

Man, the gaslighting here is pretty bad.

I'm not afraid of stereotypes. Come on, do I seem like the kind person that is afraid of stereotypes? I've been told I'm the Golden Child of our culture.

You? You are meh.


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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:58 pm 
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SPG wrote:
Lemmie wrote:
]
:rolleyes: Right, because that's the issue in your posts. You are afraid that if you treat women and men equally as people, you might accidentally end up thinking "Mother Mary" is the wrong gender. Who knew that interacting with people without falling back on stereotypes could be so scary? :lol:

Man, the gaslighting here is pretty bad.

I'm not afraid of stereotypes. Come on, do I seem like the kind person that is afraid of stereotypes? I've been told I'm the Golden Child of our culture.

You? You are meh.

:lol: :lol: :lol: You are absolutely correct, you're not afraid of stereotypes at all! In fact, you embrace them! Fair warning, however, hiding behind stereotypes just makes your sexist statements look worse.

For example, your explanation that "our ideals are masculine," and how you suggested I "misrepresented [my] gender" by posting on a thread where you thought you were only speaking to those "called to be something different.... male."

:rolleyes: Please. Having a sexist like you call me meh is a compliment. Especially one who loves his stereotypes.

Cwald gave you some great advice.
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Wow.

SPG. Where do you think your misogynistic views come from if not from your Mormon culture and upbringing?


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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:11 am 
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cwald wrote:
He is a good dude, a great Mormon, and a misogynistic racist. The racist language and attitudes simmer just under the surface and I partially blame the Mormon culture for it. Worse yet is his attitude towards women. Mormonism has a bad bad record when it comes to treating women.

It worries me and makes me very cautious of how I talk and think and I worry that some of that Mormon culture and family traditions have affected me and left their taint.

If you SPG, were to question, say a misogynist comment I made, and ask if it was because of my parents and the my Mormon upbringing, I would not be offended in the least and I think it is a very good topic for discussion and conversation to explore.



One day someone said, "we now invade countries in the name of democracy in stead of the name of God."

The lesson is that we are free to hate and judge people based on our beliefs.

You think your judgement is valid because you don't use the n-word. Fine. That is your standard. Have you ever used offensive language to describe Mormons or their beliefs? So what is the difference to you?

I don't use the n-word and I don't disrespect any group of people, even is I don't like them or their views.

What did I say, in your opinion, that was misogynistic?


Last edited by SPG on Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:31 am 
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Lemmie wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: You are absolutely correct, you're not afraid of stereotypes at all! In fact, you embrace them! Fair warning, however, hiding behind stereotypes just makes your sexist statements look worse.

For example, your explanation that "our ideals are masculine," and how you suggested I "misrepresented [my] gender" by posting on a thread where you thought you were only speaking to those "called to be something different.... male."

:rolleyes: Please. Having a sexist like you call me meh is a compliment. Especially one who loves his stereotypes.


I meant the ideals in general are a masculine concept, a seed, an idea. The consciousness that embraces ideas is feminine. I have both ideas and the consciousness to embrace ideas. I wasn't implies males have more ideas, but rather that ideas are sort of male in nature. They are nothing without consciousness to observe them.

So God the Mother and God the Father are one, yet separate. There can be consciousness without an idea, or idea with consciousness, but the do nothing until they are joined.
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Cwald gave you some great advice.
Wow.

SPG. Where do you think your misogynistic views come from if not from your Mormon culture and upbringing?


This question makes me wonder, "did Mormons invent the term "misogynistic?" Or was it a problem other places in the world. For my part, I respect women every bit or more than they respect me. I don't think I'm particularly misogynistic. But you can show me where I'm wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:21 pm 
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SPG wrote:
. I meant the ideals in general are a masculine concept, a seed, an idea. The consciousness that embraces ideas is feminine. I have both ideas and the consciousness to embrace ideas. I wasn't implies males have more ideas, but rather that ideas are sort of male in nature. They are nothing without consciousness to observe them.

So... ideas and/or ideals are masculine, and the role of the feminine is to observe the masculine as they express their ideas? That is SO much better than implying males have more ideas.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
SPG wrote:
For my part, I respect women every bit or more than they respect me. I don't think I'm particularly misogynistic. But you can show me where I'm wrong.

Oh my goodness, don't even think that! You are doing a simply fabulous job all by yourself of showing how misogynistic you are! And yes, I am positive women respect you every bit as much as you respect them. POSITIVE.

But please, tell us more about how the feminine role is to observe and embrace the masculine seed. Or how men come up with ideas and it is the woman's role to observe (and worship, I can only assume) the male-ness of idea-making.

(Definitely don't read about the woman's role recently in photographing the black hole. That will just mess with all of your weird assumptions and you might even see yourself in the trolling of this accomplished scientist. )


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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:30 pm 
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Haha. SPG, nothing I could say would better demonstrate my point better than just reading your own latest words/posts. Brother, you are in such denial. It's okay.

_________________
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson


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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:43 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
Oh my goodness, don't even think that! You are doing a simply fabulous job all by yourself of showing how misogynistic you are! And yes, I am positive women respect you every bit as much as you respect them. POSITIVE.

But please, tell us more about how the feminine role is to observe and embrace the masculine seed. Or how men come up with ideas and it is the woman's role to observe (and worship, I can only assume) the male-ness of idea-making.

(Definitely don't read about the woman's role recently in photographing the black hole. That will just mess with all of your weird assumptions and you might even see yourself in the trolling of this accomplished scientist. )


So, what I'm hearing from you, if you don't like me, you don't have to respect me. Like, I'm stupid so it ok for women to disrespect me. So, if I think you are stupid, I have license to disrespect? Whatever.

You are not keeping up. Ideas are masculine, consciousness is feminine. I'm not talking about men and women. Obviously every man and women is both ideas and consciousness. So I am not looking to women to embrace men.

So, still not seeing where I am being hateful of women.


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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:45 pm 
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cwald wrote:
Haha. SPG, nothing I could say would better demonstrate my point better than just reading your own latest words/posts. Brother, you are in such denial. It's okay.

I see. You cannot point out where I was being hateful either?


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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:42 am 
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SPG wrote:
For my part, I respect women every bit or more than they respect me. I don't think I'm particularly misogynistic. But you can show me where I'm wrong.
Lemmie wrote:
Oh my goodness, don't even think that! You are doing a simply fabulous job all by yourself of showing how misogynistic you are! And yes, I am positive women respect you every bit as much as you respect them. POSITIVE.
SPG wrote:
So, what I'm hearing from you, if you don't like me, you don't have to respect me.

There is nothing in what you said or how i responded that refered to liking someone. So, no, you are not 'hearing' me.
SPG wrote:
You are not keeping up. Ideas are masculine, consciousness is feminine. I'm not talking about men and women....

You are the one not keeping up, obviously, because you continue to post these sexist statements and then argue they are not sexist.


Last edited by Lemmie on Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:46 am 
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SPG wrote:
cwald wrote:
Haha. SPG, nothing I could say would better demonstrate my point better than just reading your own latest words/posts. Brother, you are in such denial. It's okay.

I see. You cannot point out where I was being hateful either?

You're doing fine all on your own.
SPG wrote:
I meant the ideals in general are a masculine concept, a seed, an idea. The consciousness that embraces ideas is feminine. I have both ideas and the consciousness to embrace ideas. I wasn't implies males have more ideas, but rather that ideas are sort of male in nature. They are nothing without consciousness to observe them.

Ideals are "a masculine concept", ideas are "male in nature". :rolleyes:


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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:49 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
You are not keeping up. Ideas are masculine, consciousness is feminine. I'm not talking about men and women....

Lemme wrote:
You are the one not keeping up, obviously, because you continue to post these sexist statements and then argue they are not sexist.

I didn't say they weren't sexist, I said they were not misogynistic. Any distinction between male and female is considered sexist. If I said only females can be mothers someone would call me sexist. I'm ok with that. But, is it hateful? I don't think so.

Saying that ideas are sort the male is the universe is sexist and saying the consciousness is feminine is too. But is it hateful?

I have consciousness, I accept some ideas into it as my Lord and Savior, like Christ. Sure, it's a little sexist, but I don't think it's hateful.

People like you seem to hear the slightest offending word and assign labels of hate to people. Calling me misogynistic is way more hateful than anything I said.


Last edited by SPG on Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:27 am 
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[please fix your post. i did NOT say what you have in my quote box, YOU said it. ]

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Any distinction between male and female is considered sexist. If I said only females can be mothers someone would call me sexist...

You know this in the same way you know the earth used to be flat? Your education is lacking in this area as well.
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Definition: Sexism is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... xBMI_exYJQ


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Saying that ideas are sort the male is the universe is sexist and saying the consciousness is feminine is too. But is it hateful?

I have consciousness, I accept some ideas into it as my Lord and Savior, like Christ. Sure, it's a little sexist, but I don't think it's hateful.

People like you seem to hear the slightest offending word and assign labels of hate to people. Calling me misogynistic is way more hateful than anything I said.


You think sexism is harmless?? It's not. And now you are saying that you are not misogynistic, just sexist in a harmless way? Yes, still hateful.


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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:01 am 
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If you say, Lemme. In my would, male and female are a description of how things fit together.

I didn't imply that one was better than another.

But, whatever......


Last edited by SPG on Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:02 am 
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Dup


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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:29 pm 
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SPG wrote:
If you say, Lemme. In my would, male and female are a description of how things fit together.

I didn't imply that one was better than another.

But, whatever......


In nature...in reality...gender is much, much more complex than male and female. There is no single model, no perfect way. There are mutations, adaptations, various solutions. Talk to biologists, not religious writers and speakers, about gender. Religious views on biology are no more credible than on astronomy.

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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:34 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
SPG wrote:
If you say, Lemme. In my would, male and female are a description of how things fit together.

I didn't imply that one was better than another.

But, whatever......


In nature...in reality...gender is much, much more complex than male and female. There is no single model, no perfect way. There are mutations, adaptations, various solutions. Talk to biologists, not religious writers and speakers, about gender. Religious views on biology are no more credible than on astronomy.

Exactly. It's like the reveal in Crichton's Jurassic Park, when the female dinosaurs ended up breeding, and the species count, which automatically stopped at the expected number of animals, never noticed the number raising beyond that. The atypical breeding was a perfectly natural response, but it came as such a shock to some!

(And, of course, SPG's definition of 'ideals' as 'masculine' is still the expression of an insulting and sexist bias.)


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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:53 pm 
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Maksutov wrote:
SPG wrote:
If you say, Lemme. In my would, male and female are a description of how things fit together.

I didn't imply that one was better than another.

But, whatever......


In nature...in reality...gender is much, much more complex than male and female. There is no single model, no perfect way. There are mutations, adaptations, various solutions. Talk to biologists, not religious writers and speakers, about gender. Religious views on biology are no more credible than on astronomy.

God forbid that I try to define gender itself.

I was talking about the idea being seed, consciousness being manifester.

If I tried to describe binary code which is 1 and 0, the 1 being up, or on, and the 0 as off or as hole charge, some people would think I was being sexist.

Some people suggest that the universe is 1 dimension because of the power of the binary experience. Gender is more complex then 1 and 0, but you cannot explain gender without male and female.


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 Post subject: Re: If you were to write a book. . . .
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:03 am 
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Lemmie wrote:

(And, of course, SPG's definition of 'ideals' as 'masculine' is still the expression of an insulting and sexist bias.)

I didn't mean it to be insulting.

Honestly, I was feeling a little jealous. There are an infinite number of possibilities. Those possibilities are basically ideas, the plans.

Consciousness gets to choose which one (s) to focus on. The result of consciousness focusing on an idea creates a spirit, that spirit is the child of God.

There are both masculine and feminine ideals, but both are manifested this way.

I'm sorry if the idea of a female aspect of God, the Creator, insults you. Well, not really, but it wasn't my intention to insult you.


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