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 Post subject: Re: Voting--which would be the more powerful statement?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:46 am 
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Some Schmo wrote:
Lemmie wrote:
Well that explains why we get a long explanation about how the R word is horrible, as per one mod's job experience, while there was an episode of women being called a ____ that was entirely ignored recently, which in my opinion is what is still making it very difficult for Jersey Girl to try to communicate with mods.

I did a search to find out what this was in reference to, and I suspect it was when I said I thought the way Jersey Girl was arguing made her sound like a ____. She decided to interpret that as me saying she was a ____.

I don't see those two things being exactly the same. There's a difference between a simile and a metaphor. If I say someone sounds like an elephant, that's not me calling them an elephant.

And, of course, Jersey Girl flipped out and overreacted to that incident too, because overreacting is her shtick (and has thankfully quit directing her posts at me - something she thinks is a punishment but I consider of no importance whatsoever).

There's a point where you look at people like this and think, Oh well. You can't cure crazy/whiny/overly sensitive.


Saying someone is acting like a ____ is essentially the same as calling them a ____ Schmo. A ____ is someone who acts like a ____. The term itself is harsh profanity that is prohibited by the PG-13 guidance of the forum rules. That should've been moved to the prison/telestial forum because it's also a blatant personal attack.

I'll look at it later and belatedly address it if someone else doesn't get to it first. I don't quite have time to move things around right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:52 am 
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honorentheos wrote:
My impression of this is, generally speaking, the moderator team isn't thrilled about having to go around censoring the f-word and s-word in posts but Shades seems to think that it will make the Terrestrial and Paradise forums more attractive to Mormon participants. I suspect this may even be the thing he was excited about seeing getting underway when Res came on as a mod. And when this activity drew complaints such as seen at the start of this thread with Jersey Girl, it put them in an unenviable position of trying to first deflect from the topic since neither EAllusion nor RI seem to want to spend their time doing this but are obligated to as Shades's moderators, followed by having to defend an activity that they don't seem to agree with at a personal level. All of which probably plays into their over-participating in the thread rather than leaving the bait alone.

Put all of this in the context of a rather amazingly effective trolling campaign by Cam (seriously, championship level trolling) combined with Jersey Girl's insistence that her being one of a handful of posters who consistently make moderator activity a topic isn't why she is making moderator activity a topic (Bach, mentalgymnast, and ldsfaqs are odd choices for peers but hey, free country...) and it becomes almost inevitable things are going to go south.

Short answer to all this, in my mind, is that the moderator team doesn't have an obligation to answer questions on it in any capacity. Shades needs to own this and frankly, I think he ought to go back to letting the censor do it's thing with the realization folks like mentalgymnast come here to remind themselves of how depraved leaving the church makes a person. The swearing is one of the main attractions... :wink: Seriously, though. It can't be worth the mod's time to do this. And it just creates ill will.


Honor, I appreciate the kind diagnosis, but I don’t think Shades changed his stance toward the swearing rules when I cane on. I do think there is a problem generated by the current rule as it stands and the use of the word censor as “enforcement.” We’re talking about how to fix that in the mod forum. I’m more than happy to approach cursing in Paradise and Telestial any way that Shades wants it done. My frustration over the issue comes from having a rule that forbids certain specified conduct but then gives tacit approval to the violation by letting the automated censor handle it.

It’s been my practice here to be as transparent as possible in the actions I take as moderator and to be willing to discuss moderator issues openly and publicly. Shades has made it clear that I have no obligation to do that. But I think, by and large, it’s worked pretty well. Most of the reaction has been like Schmo’s and Rock’s — they may not agree, but they honor Shades’ request to try and see things from the mod’s point of view. And the few exceptions have been, well, exceptions. ***shrugs***. I’m not inclined to abandon the transparency exception just yet, but I’ll admit I’ve been tempted a couple of times I’ve been tempted to return to my prior practice of only discussing moderator decisions off board.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting--which would be the more powerful statement?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:58 am 
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EAllusion wrote:
Saying someone is acting like a ____ is essentially the same as calling them a ____ Schmo. A ____ is someone who acts like a ____.

I said she sounded like a ____, and I remember using that phrasing specifically because I didn't intend to say she was a ____.

But I acknowledge the ease with which people could interpret it that way. She and I have a history with that word (which she mentioned) and I was trying to make an impact. It backfired. That's on me for attempting nuance around here.

*shrug*

EAllusion wrote:
The term itself is harsh profanity that is prohibited by the PG-13 guidance of the forum rules. That should've been moved to the prison/telestial forum because it's also a blatant personal attack.

I'll look at it later and belatedly address it if someone else doesn't get to it first. I don't quite have time to move things around right now.

You'd better, or you'll have to deal with massive unrest. Oh, the humanity.

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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:05 am 
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If one of you guys will post a link, I’ll be happy to do the necessary clean up.

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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:07 am 
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So sexism is tolerated now as long as EAllusion's fluffer does it?

Cool.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting--which would be the more powerful statement?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:07 am 
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Some Schmo wrote:
I said she sounded like a ____, and I remember using that phrasing specifically because I didn't intend to say she was a ____.


You are aware the the word "____" is pretty terrible, right?

True story: I once did an investigation for verbal abuse against an intellectually disabled person receiving services. What had happened is that a caregiver said she was "being a ____ because that's how she is." She tried to argue that this isn't the same as calling someone a ____ and therefore not abusive language towards her. I explained that a ____ is someone who is "being a ____". This was lost on her. She hung her hat on that distinction and tried to sue when I recommended her for...stuff.

This has lead to an in-joke about "I'm not saying so-so is a [blank]. I'm saying so-and-so is acting like a [blank]" among those familiar with this particular investigation.

Good times. I'm very much reminded of that here.


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:09 am 
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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
So sexism is tolerated now as long as EAllusion's fluffer does it?

Cool.

- Doc


You just read the exact opposite being said. I'm still waiting on your forthcoming explanation for why using "r____" as an epithet is perfectly fine. I'm sure you're putting it together as we speak.


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:22 am 
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Schmo, Lemmie, Jersey, is this the link? viewtopic.php?f=5&t=46991&p=1077588&hilit=____#p1077549

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 Post subject: Re: Voting--which would be the more powerful statement?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:35 am 
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EAllusion wrote:
You are aware the the word "____" is pretty terrible, right?

Well, I understand that many people seem to think it's worse than other words. Other people take it with a grain of salt.

Regardless, I wasn't trying to sugarcoat what I was saying at the time.

EAllusion wrote:
True story: I once did an investigation for verbal abuse against an intellectually disabled person receiving services. What had happened is that a caregiver said she was "being a ____ because that's how she is." She tried to argue that this isn't the same as calling someone a ____ and therefore not abusive language towards her. I explained that a ____ is someone who is "being a ____". This was lost on her. She hung her hat on that distinction and tried to sue when I recommended her for...stuff.

This has lead to an in-joke about "I'm not saying so-so is a [blank]. I'm saying so-and-so is acting like a [blank]" among those familiar with this particular investigation.

Good times. I'm very much reminded of that here.

First off, I think that's a different situation, given that it's a professional setting.

And I think that word choice matters. I can't control how people interpret my words; I can only understand what I meant when I said/wrote them, and try to clarify when I think they've been misinterpreted (assuming I imagine the audience cares for clarification - around here, I don't see that too often. Seems to me most people would rather latch on to the first erroneous interpretation they have and run with it. See several posts in this thread for reference).

If my clarification is unsatisfactory to those listening, what can I do? There's a point where you have to decide it's no longer worth it to explain. Depending on the situation/context, that point may be sooner or later.

How about this: I don't think Jersey Girl is a ____. I do, however, think that when she gets shrill on certain subjects, her posts start sounding just like someone who actually is a ____.

...

As an aside, do I really need to remind people that they are responsible for how they react to what others say? People have called me a ____ before (I know... shocker), and I generally respond with "you are what you eat." What I don't do is freak out, whine about it, and decide I'm going to let it affect the rest of my life.

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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:39 am 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
Schmo, Lemmie, Jersey, is this the link? http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... _#p1077549

That's the one.

Move it quick. People's sensibilities are at stake.

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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:05 pm 
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For Americans "____" is upper tier profanity with strong woman-hating undertones when used as an epithet. For other English speakers it is not as serious. Language.

It's usually not cool to say a woman is a ____ or is acting like they might remind you of someone who seems like a ____. That's a heavy bomb to throw out.


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:08 pm 
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Some Schmo wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
Schmo, Lemmie, Jersey, is this the link? http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... _#p1077549

That's the one.

Move it quick. People's sensibilities are at stake.


This six month old post? This is what is allegedly making it difficult for Jersey Girl to communicate with moderators? Given the number of times I’ve seen Jersey Girl communicate with moderators over the last six months, and the fact that it’s Jersey Girl we’re talking about, color me skeptical.

I’ve had a firm policy of not editing stuff that happened before I became a mod, and I think it’s best to stick with that. Sorry, EAllusion.

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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:14 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
I’ve had a firm policy of not editing stuff that happened before I became a mod, and I think it’s best to stick with that. Sorry, EAllusion.

Aw man. That's 16 pages to read to comb for what's appropriate to split.


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:16 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
For Americans "____" is upper tier profanity with strong woman-hating undertones when used as an epithet. For other English speakers it is not as serious. Language.

It's usually not cool to say a woman is a ____ or is acting like they might remind you of someone who seems like a ____. That's a heavy bomb to throw out.

Fair enough. Like I said, I was trying to make an impact. It worked, but in the wrong direction.

My wife and I use the word whenever we feel appropriate. She doesn't seem to see it as a gender-specific insult. We've called men that as much as women.

For example, I actually do think Cam is a ____. There's a great example. Do you consider it sexist if you use it to describe a man? (Make that "man").

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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:17 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Aw man. That's 16 pages to read to comb for what's appropriate to split.

Just move the whole thing. It's not worth the hassle, man.

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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
Schmo, Lemmie, Jersey, is this the link? http://www.mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3 ... _#p1077549

Man, that thread got stupid... and fast.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting--which would be the more powerful statement?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:39 pm 
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Some Schmo wrote:
As an aside, do I really need to remind people that they are responsible for how they react to what others say? People have called me a ____ before (I know... shocker), and I generally respond with "you are what you eat." What I don't do is freak out, whine about it, and decide I'm going to let it affect the rest of my life.


Actually schmo, I think 'those people' actually meant to call you a pussy. Pussy is good right? A paulism ... and you should go sit on your clitorious finger!


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 Post subject: Re: Voting--which would be the more powerful statement?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:47 pm 
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RockSlider wrote:
Actually schmo, I think 'those people' actually meant to call you a pussy. Pussy is good right?

I remember a comedian once talking about how the terms "pussy" and "balls" were reversed. If we want to say someone's a wimp, we call them a pussy, and if someone is courageous, they have balls.

But (as he pointed out) it makes no sense. Balls are incredibly sensitive, whereas you can stretch and pound a pussy till the cows come home and it can take whatever you dish out.

So yes... being called "pussy" is good (at least, it should be).

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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:50 pm 
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oh my ...
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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:52 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:

I’ve had a firm policy of not editing stuff that happened before I became a mod, and I think it’s best to stick with that. Sorry, EAllusion.

Aw man. That's 16 pages to read to comb for what's appropriate to split.


Yeah, yer gonna earn yer pay tonight. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Lemmie wrote:
And the unhinged continues to stalk. Add that to the never-ending name-calling, 'promises' that sound like threats, calling being disagreed with "the first salvo," paranoia and animosity, 'sordid pasts' being defined as a description of a bad habit to explain away rumor-mongering, accusations of board-nannying, explaining how they only post as mods when the font is red but attacking people who disagree with them, and it has been a stellar night for the mod team of EAllusion and RI.

And also, according to a mod, we need to stop 'driving away' the Mormons, because 'they are more interesting.' Nothing like a few stereotypes to really inspire trust in our dear moderators. :rolleyes:


Documented for my forthcoming treatise: Lemmie: a case study of pathological passive aggressive trolling.

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