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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:42 am 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
So, you can’t defend your misrepresentation of my words as fair or honest. Thought so. Trying to hide behind the label “opinion” is cowardly. You didn’t express an opinion. You repeatedly attributed to me things I did not say and positions I did not state. Own your words — don’t run from them.

And I got the victim thing right. Oooo RI hates me. :rolleyes:

You have no intention of having a good faith conversation, and your post above is full of lies. Like I said, I stand by my opinion. I repeat:
Lemmie wrote:
your post above drips with contempt, animosity, and hatred.
Res Ipsa wrote:
I find your style of argumentation to be distasteful.
Right back at ya, pal. Stay out of my way and I will stay out of yours.


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:14 am 
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You have literally no idea what my intentions are. I’ve offered to have a good faith discussion on moderation issues with you on a couple of occasions, and you won’t agree to do it. If that’s what you want, all you have to say is something like “let’s have a good faith discussion on moderation issues.” I haven’t purported to be having one to this point because you’ve never agreed to do it.

Up to you. Will you put your money where your mouth is, or will you find an excuse not to try?

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― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:33 am 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
You have literally no idea what my intentions are.

And yet, over and over in this thread, you have insisted that you know mine. What possesses you to think that you can say the above to me, after you have insisted repeatedly that you are sure of the "bad faith" that my intentions take?
res Ipsa wrote:
If that’s what you want, all you have to say is something like “let’s have a good faith discussion on moderation issues.”

Absolutely not true. Your first response to me in this thread was a personal attack, followed by such name-calling and animosity that I have no confidence whatsoever that you have any intention of having a good faith conversation. Your statement above about intentions also indicates to me that you do not view this as an exchange between two equals, but rather that you see yourself as somehow superior. It explains a lot of your animosity at being disagreed with, and it is a clear signal that a conversation with you would not be an equal exchange.


Lemmie wrote:
your post above drips with contempt, animosity, and hatred.
Res Ipsa wrote:
I find your style of argumentation to be distasteful.

Right back at ya, pal. Stay out of my way and I will stay out of yours.


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:37 am 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
You have literally no idea what my intentions are. I’ve offered to have a good faith discussion on moderation issues with you on a couple of occasions, and you won’t agree to do it. If that’s what you want, all you have to say is something like “let’s have a good faith discussion on moderation issues.” I haven’t purported to be having one to this point because you’ve never agreed to do it.

Up to you. Will you put your money where your mouth is, or will you find an excuse not to try?

Documenting a little more condescension from our Dear Moderator (who doesn't quite know when to quit stalking a poster).


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:42 am 
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Ah, excuse it is. I’ll remind you, you started this little back and forth, and I think it’s fair to describe your first post to me as dripping with contempt, etc.

Let me ask, do you like having interactions like this? Is it fun for you? Do you get something out of it?

Or would you like to try something different?

What have you got to lose? A ____ interaction with yours truly every couple of months? That would be a big loss, huh?

Seriously, what have you got to lose by trying a different mode of interaction?

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― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:53 am 
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Lemmie wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
You have literally no idea what my intentions are. I’ve offered to have a good faith discussion on moderation issues with you on a couple of occasions, and you won’t agree to do it. If that’s what you want, all you have to say is something like “let’s have a good faith discussion on moderation issues.” I haven’t purported to be having one to this point because you’ve never agreed to do it.

Up to you. Will you put your money where your mouth is, or will you find an excuse not to try?

Documenting a little more condescension from our Dear Moderator (who doesn't quite know when to quit stalking a poster).


Stalking? Is that what the cool kids are calling responding to a post these days? :rolleyes:

Document to your heart’s content. I’m happy to have our interactions reviewed by anyone at anytime. Just as long as the documentation recites my actual words.

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​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:58 am 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
... I’ll remind you, you started this little back and forth,

I'll remind you of what I already stated:
Quote:
Absolutely not true. Your first response to me in this thread was a personal attack, followed by such name-calling and animosity that I have no confidence whatsoever that you have any intention of having a good faith conversation.


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:59 am 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
Ah, excuse it is. I’ll remind you, you started this little back and forth, and I think it’s fair to describe your first post to me as dripping with contempt, etc.

Let me ask, do you like having interactions like this? Is it fun for you? Do you get something out of it?

Or would you like to try something different?

What have you got to lose? A ____ interaction with yours truly every couple of months? That would be a big loss, huh?

Seriously, what have you got to lose by trying a different mode of interaction?

And more from the unhinged.


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:03 am 
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Res Ipsa wrote:
You have literally no idea what my intentions are. I’ve offered to have a good faith discussion on moderation issues with you on a couple of occasions, and you won’t agree to do it. If that’s what you want, all you have to say is something like “let’s have a good faith discussion on moderation issues.” I haven’t purported to be having one to this point because you’ve never agreed to do it.

Up to you. Will you put your money where your mouth is, or will you find an excuse not to try?
Lemmie wrote:
Documenting a little more condescension from our Dear Moderator (who doesn't quite know when to quit stalking a poster).

Res Ipsa wrote:
Stalking? Is that what the cool kids are calling responding to a post these days? :rolleyes:

Document to your heart’s content. I’m happy to have our interactions reviewed by anyone at anytime. Just as long as the documentation recites my actual words.

adding a little paranoia to the unhinged.


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:04 am 
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Lemmie wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
... I’ll remind you, you started this little back and forth,

I'll remind you of what I already stated:
Quote:
Absolutely not true. Your first response to me in this thread was a personal attack, followed by such name-calling and animosity that I have no confidence whatsoever that you have any intention of having a good faith conversation.


Remind all you want. You fired the first salvo, taking me to task for saying things I did not say. I can’t stay out of your way when you insist on interacting with me.

You are choosing to refuse the invitation for a good faith conversation. That’s on you, not me.

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― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:16 am 
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Lemmie wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
... I’ll remind you, you started this little back and forth,

I'll remind you of what I already stated:
Quote:
Absolutely not true. Your first response to me in this thread was a personal attack, followed by such name-calling and animosity that I have no confidence whatsoever that you have any intention of having a good faith conversation.

Res Ipsa wrote:
Remind all you want. You fired the first salvo, taking me to task for saying things I did not say. I can’t stay out of your way when you insist on interacting with me.

You are choosing to refuse the invitation for a good faith conversation. That’s on you, not me.

And the unhinged continues to stalk. Add that to the never-ending name-calling, 'promises' that sound like threats, calling being disagreed with "the first salvo," paranoia and animosity, 'sordid pasts' being defined as a description of a bad habit to explain away rumor-mongering, accusations of board-nannying, explaining how they only post as mods when the font is red but attacking people who disagree with them, and it has been a stellar night for the mod team of EAllusion and RI.

And also, according to a mod, we need to stop 'driving away' the Mormons, because 'they are more interesting.' Nothing like a few stereotypes to really inspire trust in our dear moderators. :rolleyes:


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:19 am 
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My impression of this is, generally speaking, the moderator team isn't thrilled about having to go around censoring the f-word and s-word in posts but Shades seems to think that it will make the Terrestrial and Paradise forums more attractive to Mormon participants. I suspect this may even be the thing he was excited about seeing getting underway when Res came on as a mod. And when this activity drew complaints such as seen at the start of this thread with Jersey Girl, it put them in an unenviable position of trying to first deflect from the topic since neither EAllusion nor RI seem to want to spend their time doing this but are obligated to as Shades's moderators, followed by having to defend an activity that they don't seem to agree with at a personal level. All of which probably plays into their over-participating in the thread rather than leaving the bait alone.

Put all of this in the context of a rather amazingly effective trolling campaign by Cam (seriously, championship level trolling) combined with Jersey Girl's insistence that her being one of a handful of posters who consistently make moderator activity a topic isn't why she is making moderator activity a topic (Bach, mentalgymnast, and ldsfaqs are odd choices for peers but hey, free country...) and it becomes almost inevitable things are going to go south.

Short answer to all this, in my mind, is that the moderator team doesn't have an obligation to answer questions on it in any capacity. Shades needs to own this and frankly, I think he ought to go back to letting the censor do it's thing with the realization folks like mentalgymnast come here to remind themselves of how depraved leaving the church makes a person. The swearing is one of the main attractions... :wink: Seriously, though. It can't be worth the mod's time to do this. And it just creates ill will.

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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:48 am 
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honorentheos wrote:
Short answer to all this, in my mind, is that the moderator team doesn't have an obligation to answer questions on it in any capacity. Shades needs to own this and frankly, I think he ought to go back to letting the censor do it's thing with the realization folks like mentalgymnast come here to remind themselves of how depraved leaving the church makes a person. The swearing is one of the main attractions... :wink: Seriously, though. It can't be worth the mod's time to do this. And it just creates ill will.


That damn honorentheos always seems to make sense. Besides it's never been the swearing that chases active Mormons away.


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:51 am 
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honorentheos wrote:
Short answer to all this, in my mind, is that the moderator team doesn't have an obligation to answer questions on it in any capacity. Shades needs to own this and frankly, I think he ought to go back to letting the censor do it's thing with the realization folks like mentalgymnast come here to remind themselves of how depraved leaving the church makes a person. The swearing is one of the main attractions... :wink: Seriously, though. It can't be worth the mod's time to do this. And it just creates ill will.

I'm actually kind of surprised at the animosity EAllusion and RI have gotten. I haven't always agreed with the moderating choices made around here, but there's no chance in hell I'd ever do the job, so I can't work up the righteous indignation over the way they moderate the board.

I mean seriously, I could almost understand it if they were paid, but even then, the content of these complaints is so empty, I don't see the point. It's a free board meant to entertain. This is not an important board documenting important conversations. The people complaining should evaluate why the ____ they bother.

I'd think there were better battles to pick.

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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:34 am 
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Some Schmo wrote:
honorentheos wrote:
Short answer to all this, in my mind, is that the moderator team doesn't have an obligation to answer questions on it in any capacity. Shades needs to own this and frankly, I think he ought to go back to letting the censor do it's thing with the realization folks like mentalgymnast come here to remind themselves of how depraved leaving the church makes a person. The swearing is one of the main attractions... :wink: Seriously, though. It can't be worth the mod's time to do this. And it just creates ill will.

I'm actually kind of surprised at the animosity EAllusion and RI have gotten. I haven't always agreed with the moderating choices made around here, but there's no chance in hell I'd ever do the job, so I can't work up the righteous indignation over the way they moderate the board.

I mean seriously, I could almost understand it if they were paid, but even then, the content of these complaints is so empty, I don't see the point. It's a free board meant to entertain. This is not an important board documenting important conversations. The people complaining should evaluate why the ____ they bother.

I'd think there were better battles to pick.


X2

EAllusion/IR you guys are doing a great job, don't let a couple posters get you down.

As far as the ingrats go, quit your pouting and STFU.


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:42 am 
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Lemmie wrote:
Documenting a little more condescension from our Dear Moderator (who doesn't quite know when to quit stalking a poster).


This isn't the first time you've accused someone of stalking you for replying to your comments about them.


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:17 am 
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honorentheos wrote:
My impression of this is, generally speaking, the moderator team isn't thrilled about having to go around censoring the f-word and s-word in posts but Shades seems to think that it will make the Terrestrial and Paradise forums more attractive to Mormon participants. I suspect this may even be the thing he was excited about seeing getting underway when Res came on as a mod. And when this activity drew complaints such as seen at the start of this thread with Jersey Girl, it put them in an unenviable position of trying to first deflect from the topic since neither EAllusion nor RI seem to want to spend their time doing this but are obligated to as Shades's moderators, followed by having to defend an activity that they don't seem to agree with at a personal level. All of which probably plays into their over-participating in the thread rather than leaving the bait alone.
Couldn't agree more about the over-participating. Jersey Girl made an interesting observation about her time as a moderator here, where there seemed to have been a moderator policy in place not to post or participate in the same thread where one was engaged in moderating activities. That kind of separation of the personal and moderator tasks would certainly avoid the inherent and unavoidable conflict of interest that must occur when one both personally responds to and engages in moderation of other posters in a thread. I wonder if it was just a personal policy for her, or if that was a general rule at one time. It seems a good policy to have in place.
Quote:
Short answer to all this, in my mind, is that the moderator team doesn't have an obligation to answer questions on it in any capacity. Shades needs to own this and frankly, I think he ought to go back to letting the censor do it's thing with the realization folks like mentalgymnast come here to remind themselves of how depraved leaving the church makes a person. The swearing is one of the main attractions... :wink: Seriously, though. It can't be worth the mod's time to do this. And it just creates ill will.
I think Res Ipsa began his tenure as a mod with the positive intent to communicate, but really, your short answer I think is absolutely correct. There has been voluntary discussion, but there hasn't been an obligation to answer questions on moderation, at least for as long as I have been here, and the confusing mix of moderator and personal responses undoubtedly has far too much potential to create ill will as you put it, this thread being a prime example.


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:25 am 
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Quote:
Couldn't agree more about the over-participating. Jersey Girl made an interesting observation about her time as a moderator here, where there seemed to have been a moderator policy in place not to post or participate in the same thread where one was engaged in moderating activities. That kind of separation of the personal and moderator tasks would certainly avoid the inherent and unavoidable conflict of interest that must occur when one both personally responds to and engages in moderation of other posters in a thread. I wonder if it was just a personal policy for her, or if that was a general rule at one time. It seems a good policy to have in place.


If that were a policy, you could force a moderator out of any discussion simply by posting violations around or at the moderator.


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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:38 am 
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RockSlider wrote:
honorentheos wrote:
Short answer to all this, in my mind, is that the moderator team doesn't have an obligation to answer questions on it in any capacity. Shades needs to own this and frankly, I think he ought to go back to letting the censor do it's thing with the realization folks like mentalgymnast come here to remind themselves of how depraved leaving the church makes a person. The swearing is one of the main attractions... :wink: Seriously, though. It can't be worth the mod's time to do this. And it just creates ill will.


That damn honorentheos always seems to make sense. Besides it's never been the swearing that chases active Mormons away.

Apparently not for most, although complaints about "potty mouth" still seem to come up occasionally. I always think of Darth J's stellar comment when language is discussed in an LDS context:
Darth J wrote:
Verily, we have learned from sad experience that few things are more Mormon than speaking all manner of falsehoods and being a total asshole, which is perfectly fine as long as you don't say the word "asshole."


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 Post subject: Re: Voting--which would be the more powerful statement?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:28 am 
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Lemmie wrote:
Well that explains why we get a long explanation about how the R word is horrible, as per one mod's job experience, while there was an episode of women being called a ____ that was entirely ignored recently, which in my opinion is what is still making it very difficult for Jersey Girl to try to communicate with mods.

I did a search to find out what this was in reference to, and I suspect it was when I said I thought the way Jersey Girl was arguing made her sound like a ____. She decided to interpret that as me saying she was a ____.

I don't see those two things being exactly the same. There's a difference between a simile and a metaphor. If I say someone sounds like an elephant, that's not me calling them an elephant.

And, of course, Jersey Girl flipped out and overreacted to that incident too, because overreacting is her shtick (and has thankfully quit directing her posts at me - something she thinks is a punishment but I consider of no importance whatsoever).

There's a point where you look at people like this and think, Oh well. You can't cure crazy/whiny/overly sensitive.

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 Post subject: Re: Derail: Voting--which would be the more powerful stateme
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:32 am 
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Quote:
Well that explains why we get a long explanation about how the R word is horrible, as per one mod's job experience, while there was an episode of women being called a ____ that was entirely ignored recently, which in my opinion is what is still making it very difficult for Jersey Girl to try to communicate with mods.


There is a national campaign to eliminate the use of the r-word, specifically calling it the r-word with implicit comparison to the n-word. It was formally backed by the Obama administration and is widely disseminated in schools and public ad campaigns in addition to community-based activism. It has shown up in all major media outlets. The idea that I'm idiosyncratically describing it as horrible, per my job experience, can't get enough eyerolls. I used anecodotes from my professional experience with the developmentally disabled to illustrate why the term has a comparable history to the n-word in terms of the victimization of the class of people it brings up as a means to demean people or describe things as negative or flawed.

I wrote about it specifically discussing how I find a double standard in this because I don't moderate the term like I would others because of historical board practice. It is caught by the word censor, though, thanks to a poster advocating for it a long time ago. I haven't addressed Doc's constant use of it as a moderator. I suspect he throws it directly at me specifically because he knows I work with the intellectually disabled and he thinks it would bother me, but that misjudges how I read vulgar language. In any case, I haven't touched it a single time. I would address the use of the word "____" if I saw it, but I did not. I did see it in this thread, by you referencing the incident I wasn't aware of, but that was addressed in a general move of the entire thread.

What you are arguing here is that I moderate the use of the word "r____" because of my personal tastes but not "____" because Res Ipsa has revealed we moderators don't care about consistency and must not really mind the word "____." This is so ridiculous that if it isn't dishonest, it is the product of someone's thinking that - at least on this subject - is broken.


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