It is currently Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:40 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 189 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:39 pm 
God

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:39 pm
Posts: 7496
Themis wrote:
Well ding ding ding so do a number of animals species.

It makes you wonder whether or not they're communicating about the same sorts of things that hold importance to us, doesn't it? :wink:

Regards,
MG


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:55 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:24 pm
Posts: 3925
Location: La Mancha
mentalgymnast wrote:
Themis wrote:
Well ding ding ding so do a number of animals species.

It makes you wonder whether or not they're communicating about the same sorts of things that hold importance to us, doesn't it? :wink:

Regards,
MG

This question is the central point of Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind. Lot's of animals do have languages and do communicate. That is certain. But when you train a Chimp with sign language, you get a sense for his thoughts. He'll say, "I want a banana. I want an apple. I want to go outside and play. I want to sleep." (If you teach sign language to a bonobo, he will also say, "I want to have some nasty bonobo sex!"). A blue jay can tell other blue jays, "Watch out! There is a hawk over there!" Bees can tell each other where a field of flowers is located. There is a ton of communication in the animal world.

What distinguishes humans is the ability to have abstract ideas, form beliefs about them, and talk about them. This allows us to cooperate and work together in large numbers. That is our advantage as a species. That is why we were able to take over the world. It isn't because our abstract beliefs are literally true. It's that they facilitate cooperation in creative ways in large numbers.

_________________
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:58 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:32 pm
Posts: 1122
Location: Parowan, Utah
Maksutov wrote:
A fellow Star Wars loather! At last! :biggrin:

I once discovered on this board a few years back that criticism of Star Wars can bridge the gap of enmity between faithful Mormons and ex-Mormons.

_________________
"As to any slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about them."

—B. Redd McConkie


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:00 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:32 pm
Posts: 1122
Location: Parowan, Utah
Analytics wrote:
While it is true that the God hypothesis does deserve the benefit of the doubt, arguing this point distracts from the realization that to the extent the God hypothesis is well defined and in any way resembles the ideas of God taught in the Judeo Christian traditions, the evidence decidedly points to the fact that no, there is no God.


I think you've articulated my position better than I have. Thanks, Analytics.

_________________
"As to any slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about them."

—B. Redd McConkie


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:25 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:32 pm
Posts: 1122
Location: Parowan, Utah
Ceeboo wrote:
I'm glad that I decided to engage with you - I have a much better and deeper understanding now. Thanks!

Thanks, Ceeboo. Same here. I wish I had framed it as well as Analytics did.

_________________
"As to any slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about them."

—B. Redd McConkie


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:18 am 
Prophet
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:27 am
Posts: 843
Atheism is illogical - even more illogical than Theism. At least Theism admits to NOT being so all-knowing to not only understand every possible quality and explanation of God/higher lower and truth to deny it all, and claim no faith - rather pretend to have a complete awareness of what they’re denying.

At least Theists openly acknowledge herd mentality, while Atheists point fingers at group thought while they have many Atheist groups.

Atheists pretend to be independent thinkers & their name “A-theism” suggests “without theism” yet there are countlees books about Atheism and “how you too, can be an independent thinker like us!”

Agnosticism is most logical. A mix of spirituality and humbly realizing you don’t know much & openness to learning more - is most intuitive and productive.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:07 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:59 am
Posts: 12989
When I first realized I no longer believed in any gods, I called myself an atheist, because at the time, that was the correct word. But over time, I've come to realize that it's a word that puts way too much stock in other people's belief. Why should I call myself something that refers to the rejection of what others think?

The question Do you believe in God? is a little arrogant right out of the gate. It assumes there's an empirical god people either accept or reject. The only appropriate answer to that question is Which one?

The bottom line is that everyone (who assumes a god for themselves) has made their god in their own image (which is to say, they made up a god that appeals to them). When seen from this perspective, the question Do you believe in God? is essentially asking Do you share my mental invention? Of course, they think they're referring to an external entity, which just goes to show how powerfully deceptive the human mind can be (to itself).

I have never heard a god described that I could believe in, except for the most innocuous of descriptions (e. g. God is love). That doesn't make me an atheist. It makes the people describing their gods either poor describers and individuals willing to believe outrageous things.

_________________
"You get to have your own beliefs, and your own wishes, and dreams, and imaginations. What you don't get to have is your own reality." - Sethbag

"Good thing your safe space isn't being violated with the horrors of self-awareness." - Dmetri Cromwell (some guy on Facebook)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:54 am 
God

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:43 pm
Posts: 12644
Amore wrote:
Atheism is illogical - even more illogical than Theism. At least Theism admits to NOT being so all-knowing to not only understand every possible quality and explanation of God/higher lower and truth to deny it all, and claim no faith - rather pretend to have a complete awareness of what they’re denying.


The thiest's I know makes a lot more absolute statements then the atheist's I know.

Quote:
At least Theists openly acknowledge herd mentality, while Atheists point fingers at group thought while they have many Atheist groups.


Most of the theist's I know don't admit to group thinking, while many atheist do.

Quote:
Atheists pretend to be independent thinkers & their name “A-theism” suggests “without theism” yet there are countlees books about Atheism and “how you too, can be an independent thinker like us!”


Maybe they are Independent thinkers. I would suggest the best independent thinkers are those who realize they are not free from group thinking and are susceptible to it.

Quote:
Agnosticism is most logical. A mix of spirituality and humbly realizing you don’t know much & openness to learning more - is most intuitive and productive.


The problem is many atheist's think this way. There is quite a range in how people define and view atheism and agnosticism.

_________________
42


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:23 am 
Prophet
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:27 am
Posts: 843
Themis,
I agree, especially coming from cults - we’ve seen more than our fair share of Theist group thought. But I’ve seen a lot of Atheist herd mentality too. The biggest threat is group-thought because people in groups act crazier than they do by themselves. Think about it - even military insanity is allowed while if they did the same thing on their own, they’d be in jail or psych-ward. Gangs are another example - as are riots - in groups, people tend to act like deranged apes. I don’t trust anyone who allows themselves to be easily influenced by group-thought. They’ll turn on you first time you question them. Some groups worse than others like cults, feminists, homosexual fanatics, etc. Try questioning one of them - see what happens.

If Atheists think like Agnostics why do they label themselves as part of the Atheist herd?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:44 am 
God

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:43 pm
Posts: 12644
Amore wrote:
If Atheists think like Agnostics why do they label themselves as part of the Atheist herd?


It's always important to get more information to understand what a person thinks. We all have even little differences in how we define and understand different terms like atheist, theist, agnostic. If someone tells you they are atheist you likely wont know what they mean by atheist until you get more detailed information from them.

_________________
42


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:09 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 7037
Location: On walkabout
Amore, can you specifically describe what you refer to as the “atheist herd mentality?”

_________________
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:17 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 16229
Res Ipsa wrote:
Amore, can you specifically describe what you refer to as the “atheist herd mentality?”


I think it's human nature to just group people together. It helps with our processing. Atheists are easily grouped as are Christians, Muslims, etc.

Amore,

If it helps you any I'm an atheist but I'm open to all sorts of fun what-if fictional possibilities. They're fiction to me until they bear out, which is why I'm an atheist.

This could all be a simulation within a simulation within a simulation ad infinitum. We could literally be a civilization harnessing the power of a black hole. Or we could be the genetic seed planted by space faring god types. We could be one universe of an infinite multiverse.

I am a little more skeptical of the man-god that lives on or near Kolob with his harem of babymakers, though. Call me simple, but that one definitely doesn't make any sense.

In any case, until we have hard evidence that we're not just a multi-celled organism gobbling up space and resources on our volcanic rock flying through space I don't see any reason to sign off beyond what we observe, comprehend, and experience.

- Doc

_________________
Remember the Treaty of Trianon!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:51 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 7037
Location: On walkabout
Doc, Amore doesn’t use herd mentality to describe all groups, so I’m not understanding what she means.

_________________
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:54 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:16 pm
Posts: 29128
Location: Off the Deep End
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Amore,

If it helps you any I'm an atheist but I'm open to all sorts of fun what-if fictional possibilities. They're fiction to me until they bear out, which is why I'm an atheist.


Cam were you always atheist or did your god belief sort of fade away? Just curious.

_________________
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb


Stay close to the people who feel like sunlight ~ Arsu Shaikh


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:57 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:16 pm
Posts: 29128
Location: Off the Deep End
I'm not clear why the term "herd mentality" is being applied to atheists. Are you guys sure this isn't a reference to common world views? If so, how is that herd mentality?

_________________
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb


Stay close to the people who feel like sunlight ~ Arsu Shaikh


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:42 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 16229
Jersey Girl wrote:
Cam were you always atheist or did your god belief sort of fade away? Just curious.


The latter. It was a slow'ish process. I mean, I was raised as a BIC TBM, served a mission, so on and so forth. As you know, you learn as a Mormon one way or another to view other religions as false which sets the precedence that it's an all or nothing proposition with Mormonism.

Oh, I recently had one of those weird moments where a random memory from my youth popped into my head for no reason whatsoever. So, one night, I think I was probably a junior or senior in HS, I was reading the Book of Mormon and decided to pray for whatever reason. I was pretty fervent that night. I recall asking God if I would 'make it' back to Him, be a faithful Mormon until the end. I had a clarity of feeling that I wouldn't, and it scared the ____ out of me. I kept that one to myself.

Of course these days I realize that on some level my brain knew it was all bs, but my lifelong indoctrination couldn't accept what I knew to be true.

- Doc

_________________
Remember the Treaty of Trianon!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:00 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:37 pm
Posts: 7037
Location: On walkabout
Jersey Girl wrote:
I'm not clear why the term "herd mentality" is being applied to atheists. Are you guys sure this isn't a reference to common world views? If so, how is that herd mentality?


It looks like well poisoning to me, but I thought I’d ask for some clarification.

_________________
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:27 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:16 pm
Posts: 29128
Location: Off the Deep End
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
Cam were you always atheist or did your god belief sort of fade away? Just curious.


The latter. It was a slow'ish process. I mean, I was raised as a BIC TBM, served a mission, so on and so forth. As you know, you learn as a Mormon one way or another to view other religions as false which sets the precedence that it's an all or nothing proposition with Mormonism.

Oh, I recently had one of those weird moments where a random memory from my youth popped into my head for no reason whatsoever. So, one night, I think I was probably a junior or senior in HS, I was reading the Book of Mormon and decided to pray for whatever reason. I was pretty fervent that night. I recall asking God if I would 'make it' back to Him, be a faithful Mormon until the end. I had a clarity of feeling that I wouldn't, and it scared the ____ out of me. I kept that one to myself.

Of course these days I realize that on some level my brain knew it was all bs, but my lifelong indoctrination couldn't accept what I knew to be true.

- Doc


Thanks, I appreciate your answering. It seems to me that the process is about the same no matter what religion one previously subscribed to. I've known some folks who are lifelong atheists. They weren't exposed to religious belief in childhood and so it never became part of their lives. That's a testament to the influence of indoctrination. Then again there are those who were lifelong atheist and somehow developed god belief.

The journeys of people never fail to amaze me. Me, I seek to be comfortable in my own skin. I want that for others as well.

_________________
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb


Stay close to the people who feel like sunlight ~ Arsu Shaikh


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:32 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:50 am
Posts: 10446
Location: Your mother's purse
to claim that atheism exists or is true only concludes with the inescapable truth that there is no individuality, no free will, and no ability to be actually be an autonomous person capable of original thought. Atheism requires original thought to be nothing more than an illusion.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them
what is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams
If you're not upsetting idiots, you might be an idiot. - Ted Nugent


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:47 pm 
Prophet
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:27 am
Posts: 843
Themis wrote:
Amore wrote:
If Atheists think like Agnostics why do they label themselves as part of the Atheist herd?


It's always important to get more information to understand what a person thinks. We all have even little differences in how we define and understand different terms like atheist, theist, agnostic. If someone tells you they are atheist you likely wont know what they mean by atheist until you get more detailed information from them.

That’s partly why I dislike labels. Just by labeling your beliefs suggests some type of group thought. If you’re an independent thinker, how could you pick a single word to describe your beliefs?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Atheism Continues to Be Misunderstood - Is This Delibera
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:50 pm 
Prophet
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:27 am
Posts: 843
Res Ipsa wrote:
Doc, Amore doesn’t use herd mentality to describe all groups, so I’m not understanding what she means.

How long have you had the delusion you could read minds?

If you’d bother to read what I wrote, you’d know what I meant - unless comprehension is not your strong suit.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 189 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kittens_and_Jesus and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group