It makes you wonder whether or not they're communicating about the same sorts of things that hold importance to us, doesn't it?

Regards,
MG

This question is the central point of Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind. Lot's of animals do have languages and do communicate. That is certain. But when you train a Chimp with sign language, you get a sense for his thoughts. He'll say, "I want a banana. I want an apple. I want to go outside and play. I want to sleep." (If you teach sign language to a bonobo, he will also say, "I want to have some nasty bonobo sex!"). A blue jay can tell other blue jays, "Watch out! There is a hawk over there!" Bees can tell each other where a field of flowers is located. There is a ton of communication in the animal world.

What distinguishes humans is the ability to have abstract ideas, form beliefs about them, and talk about them. This allows us to cooperate and work together in large numbers. That is our advantage as a species. That is why we were able to take over the world. It isn't because our abstract beliefs are literally true. It's that they facilitate cooperation in creative ways in large numbers.

I once discovered on this board a few years back that criticism of Star Wars can bridge the gap of enmity between faithful Mormons and ex-Mormons.

I think you've articulated my position better than I have. Thanks, Analytics.

Thanks, Ceeboo. Same here. I wish I had framed it as well as Analytics did.

Atheism is illogical - even more illogical than Theism. At least Theism admits to NOT being so all-knowing to not only understand every possible quality and explanation of God/higher lower and truth to deny it all, and claim no faith - rather pretend to have a complete awareness of what they’re denying.

At least Theists openly acknowledge herd mentality, while Atheists point fingers at group thought while they have many Atheist groups.

Atheists pretend to be independent thinkers & their name “A-theism” suggests “without theism” yet there are countlees books about Atheism and “how you too, can be an independent thinker like us!”

Agnosticism is most logical. A mix of spirituality and humbly realizing you don’t know much & openness to learning more - is most intuitive and productive.

When I first realized I no longer believed in any gods, I called myself an atheist, because at the time, that was the correct word. But over time, I've come to realize that it's a word that puts way too much stock in other people's belief. Why should I call myself something that refers to the rejection of what others think?

The question Do you believe in God? is a little arrogant right out of the gate. It assumes there's an empirical god people either accept or reject. The only appropriate answer to that question is Which one?

The bottom line is that everyone (who assumes a god for themselves) has made their god in their own image (which is to say, they made up a god that appeals to them). When seen from this perspective, the question Do you believe in God? is essentially asking Do you share my mental invention? Of course, they think they're referring to an external entity, which just goes to show how powerfully deceptive the human mind can be (to itself).

I have never heard a god described that I could believe in, except for the most innocuous of descriptions (e. g. God is love). That doesn't make me an atheist. It makes the people describing their gods either poor describers and individuals willing to believe outrageous things.

The thiest's I know makes a lot more absolute statements then the atheist's I know.



Most of the theist's I know don't admit to group thinking, while many atheist do.



Maybe they are Independent thinkers. I would suggest the best independent thinkers are those who realize they are not free from group thinking and are susceptible to it.



The problem is many atheist's think this way. There is quite a range in how people define and view atheism and agnosticism.

Themis,
I agree, especially coming from cults - we’ve seen more than our fair share of Theist group thought. But I’ve seen a lot of Atheist herd mentality too. The biggest threat is group-thought because people in groups act crazier than they do by themselves. Think about it - even military insanity is allowed while if they did the same thing on their own, they’d be in jail or psych-ward. Gangs are another example - as are riots - in groups, people tend to act like deranged apes. I don’t trust anyone who allows themselves to be easily influenced by group-thought. They’ll turn on you first time you question them. Some groups worse than others like cults, feminists, homosexual fanatics, etc. Try questioning one of them - see what happens.

If Atheists think like Agnostics why do they label themselves as part of the Atheist herd?

It's always important to get more information to understand what a person thinks. We all have even little differences in how we define and understand different terms like atheist, theist, agnostic. If someone tells you they are atheist you likely wont know what they mean by atheist until you get more detailed information from them.

Amore, can you specifically describe what you refer to as the “atheist herd mentality?”

I think it's human nature to just group people together. It helps with our processing. Atheists are easily grouped as are Christians, Muslims, etc.

Amore,

If it helps you any I'm an atheist but I'm open to all sorts of fun what-if fictional possibilities. They're fiction to me until they bear out, which is why I'm an atheist.

This could all be a simulation within a simulation within a simulation ad infinitum. We could literally be a civilization harnessing the power of a black hole. Or we could be the genetic seed planted by space faring god types. We could be one universe of an infinite multiverse.

I am a little more skeptical of the man-god that lives on or near Kolob with his harem of babymakers, though. Call me simple, but that one definitely doesn't make any sense.

In any case, until we have hard evidence that we're not just a multi-celled organism gobbling up space and resources on our volcanic rock flying through space I don't see any reason to sign off beyond what we observe, comprehend, and experience.

- Doc

Doc, Amore doesn’t use herd mentality to describe all groups, so I’m not understanding what she means.

Cam were you always atheist or did your god belief sort of fade away? Just curious.

I'm not clear why the term "herd mentality" is being applied to atheists. Are you guys sure this isn't a reference to common world views? If so, how is that herd mentality?

The latter. It was a slow'ish process. I mean, I was raised as a BIC TBM, served a mission, so on and so forth. As you know, you learn as a Mormon one way or another to view other religions as false which sets the precedence that it's an all or nothing proposition with Mormonism.

Oh, I recently had one of those weird moments where a random memory from my youth popped into my head for no reason whatsoever. So, one night, I think I was probably a junior or senior in HS, I was reading the Book of Mormon and decided to pray for whatever reason. I was pretty fervent that night. I recall asking God if I would 'make it' back to Him, be a faithful Mormon until the end. I had a clarity of feeling that I wouldn't, and it scared the ____ out of me. I kept that one to myself.

Of course these days I realize that on some level my brain knew it was all bs, but my lifelong indoctrination couldn't accept what I knew to be true.

- Doc

It looks like well poisoning to me, but I thought I’d ask for some clarification.

Thanks, I appreciate your answering. It seems to me that the process is about the same no matter what religion one previously subscribed to. I've known some folks who are lifelong atheists. They weren't exposed to religious belief in childhood and so it never became part of their lives. That's a testament to the influence of indoctrination. Then again there are those who were lifelong atheist and somehow developed god belief.

The journeys of people never fail to amaze me. Me, I seek to be comfortable in my own skin. I want that for others as well.

to claim that atheism exists or is true only concludes with the inescapable truth that there is no individuality, no free will, and no ability to be actually be an autonomous person capable of original thought. Atheism requires original thought to be nothing more than an illusion.

That’s partly why I dislike labels. Just by labeling your beliefs suggests some type of group thought. If you’re an independent thinker, how could you pick a single word to describe your beliefs?

How long have you had the delusion you could read minds?

If you’d bother to read what I wrote, you’d know what I meant - unless comprehension is not your strong suit.