# 1 Rule: Rules are stupid...

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_Roger Morrison
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:13 am

Post by _Roger Morrison »

Dr. Shades wrote:Roger:

I have absolutely NO IDEA what you're trying to say.

Care to dumb it down a little for me?


Sorry. I do sometimes tend to confuse. So, "I" should brighten-up :-) Where do i start?

We're (humanity) on a learning curve, maybe better, a learning-incline, (not a decline as some might suggest). From the cave to the present, to the future--evolving. In the present we do the best with what we have. What more can be expected? Not much from most of us...

However, the creative, inventive initiative-takers--movers & shakers--(folks like you :-) nudge us up, often kicking and screaming, clutching onto traditions, superstitons and misinformation, that ironically 'works'--in 'its' time... That "IT WORKS" should not close the door on something that might work better, IMSCO.

So, congrats on what you're doing! It works for the community, as it is. Do you have a vision beyond that? Besides being 'liberal' with the rules, what would you like to see result from your collective efforts and energy? Hope that helped?? Roger
_Roger Morrison
_Emeritus
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:13 am

Post by _Roger Morrison »

keene wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:Roger:

I have absolutely NO IDEA what you're trying to say.

Care to dumb it down a little for me?


Basically, we want the great barrel to change the one bad apple, not the other way around. The rest is philisophical fluff that I immensly enjoyed reading, but as far as practical application, isn't necessary to read.


Keene, thanks for trimming the fat! Correct. It has to work that way or we couldn't influence, or change behaviour! We would have remained in the cave. We would still beat our kids, "cuz to spare the rod spoils the child." Our social system and economy would have remained dependent on slavery and the caste system. What is required, and seemingly in short supply, is patience.

The other irrational homily, "...sin at first is bitter then becomes sweet ..." Or words to that affect. As if learning to do the right thing doesn't follow the same process. Repetition and persistance develops good habits as well as bad. Good ones often tasting so 'bad' they're not worth the effort.

That, i respectfully, and of course thoughtfully, suggest, is why Jesusism failed. To be replaced with Religiousism. One was of self-responsibilty the latter to institutional obedience and group conformity.

We're still working towards being resposible by virtue. Not virtuous by obedience. IMSCO... Warm regards Roger
_harmony
_Emeritus
Posts: 18195
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:35 am

Post by _harmony »

Roger Morrison wrote:
keene wrote:
Dr. Shades wrote:Roger:

I have absolutely NO IDEA what you're trying to say.

Care to dumb it down a little for me?


Basically, we want the great barrel to change the one bad apple, not the other way around. The rest is philisophical fluff that I immensly enjoyed reading, but as far as practical application, isn't necessary to read.


Keene, thanks for trimming the fat! Correct. It has to work that way or we couldn't influence, or change behaviour! We would have remained in the cave. We would still beat our kids, "cuz to spare the rod spoils the child." Our social system and economy would have remained dependent on slavery and the caste system. What is required, and seemingly in short supply, is patience.

The other irrational homily, "...sin at first is bitter then becomes sweet ..." Or words to that affect. As if learning to do the right thing doesn't follow the same process. Repetition and persistance develops good habits as well as bad. Good ones often tasting so 'bad' they're not worth the effort.

That, i respectfully, and of course thoughtfully, suggest, is why Jesusism failed. To be replaced with Religiousism. One was of self-responsibilty the latter to institutional obedience and group conformity.

We're still working towards being resposible by virtue. Not virtuous by obedience. IMSCO... Warm regards Roger


Mormons are not alone in their belief in the Great God of Obedience. They just take it to a new level.

The sad part is that Mormons claim to have the fulness of Christ's gospel. If we've got the fulness, why do we act like everyone else? Why do we spend billions on shopping malls and millions on humanitarian aid, like everyone else? Why do we spend so much time worrying about what we look like, and so little time worrying about what we act like? We're so concerned with the facade we show people, and so unconcerned with the hearts of our people. Is it because we know in our hearts that we don't really have what we claim to have?
_Roger Morrison
_Emeritus
Posts: 1831
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:13 am

Post by _Roger Morrison »

Me thinks we are in Harmony! as you say:
Mormons are not alone in their belief in the Great God of Obedience. They just take it to a new level.

The sad part is that Mormons claim to have the fulness of Christ's gospel. If we've got the fulness, why do we act like everyone else? Why do we spend billions on shopping malls and millions on humanitarian aid, like everyone else? Why do we spend so much time worrying about what we look like, and so little time worrying about what we act like? We're so concerned with the facade we show people, and so unconcerned with the hearts of our people. Is it because we know in our hearts that we don't really have what we claim to have?


You ask some good questions. To the last one: Could be on some levels, in some minds. However, i tend to think that such 'knowledge' would probably be subconscious, if at all. If in full-knowledge that would suggest absolute fraudulence; there i tend to give them the benefit of doubt. I say that for, as you suggest, they really don't differ TOO much from any other sect that distorts truth to conform to edicts, creeds and THEIR theology...

Yesterday i experienced a F&T meeting in Florida. My first in a long time. Having sat through countless of these, in varying degrees of TBMism, this time i saw them in a different light: Where else could these-folks, at this time of their personal needs, find what they have in Mormonism? Very few places, i suggest...

Take LDSism away from them and what could replaced it--for them. Remember they choose to be there, freely or to a degree cohersed. Non the less their personal pay-back suffices. As it did to many of us at one time and place. We who have chosen to leave--may i suggest, "for the right reasons"--"...need not a physician." According to Jesus' teachings he didn't teach to join any church. He simply taught how to feel good by being smart, and choosing wisely from lifes table. Seems he kicked over tables that had been set to exploit the masses and defame "God".

It would be interesting, and i imagine revealing, to have member retention stats, in various levels of 'activity', compared across NA churches. Especially a category of defection of all respective "Missionary" defections. Just a guess, but i imagine LDS Missionary inactivity would far exceed that of most other Christion sects... Any body up for the research??? Warm regards, Roger
_keene
_Emeritus
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Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:05 pm

Post by _keene »

Roger Morrison wrote:The other irrational homily, "...sin at first is bitter then becomes sweet ..." Or words to that affect. As if learning to do the right thing doesn't follow the same process. Repetition and persistance develops good habits as well as bad. Good ones often tasting so 'bad' they're not worth the effort.


This statement here reminded me of good old Mitch Hedburg, talking about Flossing.

"Man, I hate flossing. It's hard to start. People tell me "You don't know how hard it is to quit smoking man. You don't know how HARD it is!" Yes I do! It's just as hard to START FLOSSING! "Hey man, You look jittery!" Yeah, man, I'm about to go floss.!"

Yeah, starting good habits is just as hard as starting bad ones. The human mind follows the laws of newton in so many ways. It likes to keep going. It resists change. Which is strange, because at the same time, the mind is wired in such a way to learn best from immediate and dramatic change.
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