The Bible and Homosexual interpretation

[_aussieguy55]

https://www.forgeonline.org/blog/2019/3 ... ewNlDD6bDI

I found this very interesting on how translations can distort the original meaning.

"I then grabbed my facsimile copy of Martin Luther’s original German translation from 1534. My friend is reading through it for me and he says, “Ed, this says the same thing!” They use the word knabenschander. Knaben is boy, schander is molester. This word “boy molesters” for the most part carried through the next several centuries of German Bible translations. Knabenschander is also in 1 Timothy 1:10. So the interesting thing is, I asked if they ever changed the word arsenokoitai to homosexual in modern translations. So my friend found it and told me, “The first time homosexual appears in a German translation is 1983.” To me that was a little suspect because of what was happening in culture in the 1970s. Also because the Germans were the ones who created the word homosexual in 1862, they had all the history, research, and understanding to change it if they saw fit; however, they did not change it until 1983. If anyone was going to put the word homosexual in the Bible, the Germans should have been the first to do it!"

[_Jersey Girl]

You might want to learn about what was going on culturally during different periods of time that the Bible accounts for so you know more about what is being discussed.

[_aussieguy55]

Martin Luther’s Translation of controversial Bible texts dealing with Homosexuality.

I Corinthians 6:9

NRSV (New Revised Standard Version)
9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites,

Luther’s Translation 1545
9 Wisset ihr nicht, daß die Ungerechten das Reich Gottes nicht ererben werden? Lasset euch nicht verführen! Weder die Hurer noch die Abgöttischen noch die Ehebrecher noch die Weichlinge noch die Knabenschänder

Google translation of Luther’s translation
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be seduced! Neither the fornicators nor the idolaters nor the adulterers nor the sissies nor the boy-molesters

Leviticus 18:22

NRSV
22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Luther’s translation 1545
22 Du sollst nicht beim Knaben liegen wie beim Weibe; denn es ist ein Greuel.

Google translation
22 Thou shalt not lie with the boy as with the woman; because it is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13

13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Luther’s translation 1545
13 Wenn jemand beim Knaben schläft wie beim Weibe, die haben einen Greuel getan und sollen beide des Todes sterben; ihr Blut sei auf ihnen.

13 If a man sleep with a boy like a woman, they have done an abomination, and both shall die of death; her blood is on them.

1 Timothy 1:10

NSRV
10 fornicators, sodomites, slave traders, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching

Luther’s translation 1545
10 den Hurern, den Knabenschändern, den Menschendieben, den Lügnern, den Meineidigen und so etwas mehr der heilsamen Lehre zuwider ist,

Google translation
To the whores, the boy-shiters, the thieves, the liars, the perjurers, and so much more contrary to the salutary doctrine

Ezekiel 16:49-50

New International Version (NIV)
49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.

[_Physics Guy]

The ending of Leviticus 20:13 has a mistranslation by Google from German to English. The "ihr" in "Ihr Blut" is a homonym; it can mean either "her" or "their" and in this case it obviously means "their".

Whatever Luther wrote, the verse would seem to be referring to consensual sex between adults, because it commands that both participants be killed and that would make no sense if one were an underage victim. It is of course the verse itself that is abominable, but not even Leviticus is abominable enough to prescribe execution for sexually abused children.

[_Jersey Girl]

aussieguy most of us are familiar with those portions of scripture. Why do you keep posting without actually engaging in discussion? What exactly is your expectation?

[_huckelberry]

The ending of Leviticus 20:13 has a mistranslation by Google from German to English. The "ihr" in "Ihr Blut" is a homonym; it can mean either "her" or "their" and in this case it obviously means "their".

Whatever Luther wrote, the verse would seem to be referring to consensual sex between adults, because it commands that both participants be killed and that would make no sense if one were an underage victim. It is of course the verse itself that is abominable, but not even Leviticus is abominable enough to prescribe execution for sexually abused children.

Physics Guy, I think you make a clear point here. It just is not possible to remodel some of those old laws. We must just conclude they are bad laws not to be followed. Society and churches have managed that with,"thou shalt not suffer the witch to live" and a number of other bad laws.

[Rosebud]

http://www.bibleandhomosexuality.org/bibliography/ Helpful information on both sides.

http://www.bibleandhomosexuality.org/st ... sexuality/

[_moksha]

You might want to learn about what was going on culturally during different periods of time that the Bible accounts for so you know more about what is being discussed.

Good point. Best to let those ancient Israelites slug it out with the Spartans.

[_slskipper]

I personally feel no obligation to justify anything in the Bible.

[_Physics Guy]

I personally feel no obligation to justify anything in the Bible.

It just is not possible to remodel some of those old laws. We must just conclude they are bad laws not to be followed. Society and churches have managed that with,"thou shalt not suffer the witch to live" and a number of other bad laws.

Somewhere in Isaiah I think there is a passage mocking the pagans for all the effort they have to put into dragging their idols around and propping them up. In contrast the real God carries you, the passage says. My deduction from that passage is that whatever kind of divine inspiration the Bible may have, it's a kind that is inconsistent with having to be justified by human effort. Whatever needs propping up cannot be the real God.