Notre Dame Cathedral vs SLC Temple, the race is on!

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_I have a question
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Notre Dame Cathedral vs SLC Temple, the race is on!

Post by _I have a question »

The propaganda arm of the Church Deseret News has worked hard at using the Notre Dame Cathedral fire to draw attention to the Church and its leaders.

Now Mr Nelson, in the latest attempt to make it seem like he and the Pope have become bosom buddies, has made it known that he has written to the Pope to offer his condolences.
President Russell M. Nelson of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints wrote words of comfort and encouragement to Pope Francis in the wake of the devastating fire at the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, April 15, 2019.
In his letter, President Nelson expressed profound sadness at the damage done to this sacred structure that has stood for more than 800 years. President Nelson, the leader of a 16.3 million-member faith community, told the Bishop of Rome that his thoughts immediately went to him and the many beloved friends in the Catholic faith. He said he is heartbroken by the tragedy to such an ageless symbol of faith and shares his feelings of grief.
President Nelson said he prays Notre Dame will rise again in newness of life.

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/ ... -dame-fire

But he’s made a political faux pas. The Pope and the Catholic Church don’t own Notre Dame, it’s not their building. The person to whom Mr Nelson should be offering condolences to is actually President Macron, the President Of France and/or the French Minister of Culture. Or even perhaps The Friends Of Notre Dame.
The French Ministry of Culture owns Notre Dame and is responsible for its maintenance.
The state used to foot the bill for all of Notre Dame’s upkeep.
But in recent years the high cost of the repairs Notre Dame needed meant the French Ministry of Culture could no longer pay to maintain it.

This saw the Archbishop of Paris and the Diocese of Paris create the Friends of Notre-Dame de Paris organisation.
The Friends of Notre-Dame de Paris is a charity that urges people to donate money to go towards the cathedral’s upkeep.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/11 ... notre-dame

I thought this was interesting - The Friends Of Notre Dame weren’t seeking the renovation funds from the Catholic Church, or from the French people...
The French state allocates €2 million ($2.2 million) a year for restoration works. According to Picaud, the repairs needed would cost 50 times as much, around €100 million ($113 million), and would need to happen within the next decade. His foundation is appealing to the U.S. and its private philanthropic tradition to shoulder the bill, since, he said, Notre Dame is also a part of American history.
“In World War II for example, when French and American troops liberated Paris from occupying German forces, the celebrations took place in front of Notre Dame,” Picaud said. He said several donors in the United States have already gotten in touch to offer financial support. “I think the Americans consider part of the history that took place in Europe as part of their own,” Picaud remarked.


Once again the Pope sets an example for Mr Nelson...
Pope Francis has told his weekly audience at St. Peter's Square of his sadness over the fire at Notre Dame Cathedral, the seat of the Paris archdiocese.
The pope said Wednesday that "I take this opportunity to express to the Paris diocesan community, all Parisians and the entire French population my great affection and my closeness after the fire in Notre Dame Cathedral."
Addressing those gathered, pope said, "I was very sad and I feel very close to all of you."
He expressed "the gratitude of the whole church to those who did their utmost to save the Basilica, also risking their lives."
The pope on Tuesday sent a telegram of condolences to Paris Archbishop Michel Aupetitand and phoned French President Emmanuel Macron to express his solidarity.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/the-lates ... -dame-fire
Note the Pope’s comments are all about the people of France rather than the building. Note he writes to the President of France, the ultimate “owner” of the building.

Mr Nelson should have sent condolences to the French nation, not the Catholic one.
Last edited by Guest on Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_moksha
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Re: Mr Nelson’s Notre Dame faux pas...

Post by _moksha »

President Nelson sent the note to someone he knows about. Think of a similar situation if Pope John Paul II was thrilled with the Christmas lights at the Logan and St. George Temples. He might send a note of appreciation to President Ezra Taft Benson, but not to the taxpayers of Logan and St. George. Religious leaders cannot be expected to know everything.

Just be happy that notes of condolence, unlike apologies, are not deemed to be beneath the majesty of the Church.
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_Maksutov
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Re: Mr Nelson’s Notre Dame faux pas...

Post by _Maksutov »

Mormons:

"Look at us!" "Look!" "Hey, over here!" "Hey, we're Mormons!" "Hey, we're members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints!" "Hey, we're the Church of Jesus Christ!" "Hey!" "HEY!!" "WHAT ABOUT US!!!"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_I have a question
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Re: Mr Nelson’s Notre Dame faux pas...

Post by _I have a question »

The plot thickens. President Macron is calling for the rebuilding of Notre Dame Cathedral to be completed within five years, so relaunching in 2024. In a cosmic twist, that’s the same year the Salt Lake Mormon temple will relaunch. In a race against time it’s now a competition to see which will overshadow the other...
President Emmanuel Macron pledged on Tuesday that France would rebuild the fire-devastated Notre-Dame de Paris cathedral, saying he hoped the work would be done in five years and the French people would pull together to repair their national symbol.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fran ... SKCN1RS0AV

The Salt Lake Temple will accommodate 86 different languages after it reopens in 2024, the Deseret News reported. The church will host a public open house when the renovations are finished.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... ndown.html

Game On!
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
_Symmachus
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral vs SLC Temple, the race is on!

Post by _Symmachus »

I know I am supposed to just find everything loathsome about the Church, but I don't see what's wrong in writing a note of sympathy to the leader of Catholics, because for believing Catholics (among whom the current Pope is occasionally numbered) the legal ownership of the Notre Dame cathedral is irrelevant, whereas its function as an iconic place of Catholic worship is paramount.

Mormons are people, too.
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_kairos
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral vs Salt Lake City Temple, the race

Post by _kairos »

Pope to Nelson: Thank you for your note on the loss of the Notre Dame worship space for the French and people of all nations- when i visit America next year would it be possible for you to guide me through one of your "temples" - i am interested in the rituals you perform in them?

Nelson reply to Pope Francis: Papa our temples are sacred spaces actually HF's home on earth- so only worthy members may enter and perform ordinances - if you would like a Book of Mormon or have the missionaries visit you in Vatican City, call 1-800- A Mormon- Ciao!

Pope to his travel agent: Take SLC off my list of cities to visit in 2020 and please send a Catholic Catechism to Mr Nelson in SLC.
_Res Ipsa
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral vs Salt Lake City Temple, the race

Post by _Res Ipsa »

Symmachus wrote:I know I am supposed to just find everything loathsome about the Church, but I don't see what's wrong in writing a note of sympathy to the leader of Catholics, because for believing Catholics (among whom the current Pope is occasionally numbered) the legal ownership of the Notre Dame cathedral is irrelevant, whereas its function as an iconic place of Catholic worship is paramount.

Mormons are people, too.


I believe that it serves as a diocese headquarters, so the note was pretty on point in my opinion.
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_Lemmie
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral vs SLC Temple, the race is on!

Post by _Lemmie »

Symmachus wrote:I know I am supposed to just find everything loathsome about the Church, but I don't see what's wrong in writing a note of sympathy to the leader of Catholics, because for believing Catholics (among whom the current Pope is occasionally numbered) the legal ownership of the Notre Dame cathedral is irrelevant, whereas its function as an iconic place of Catholic worship is paramount.

Mormons are people, too.

Hmm... not for the believing Catholics I know. And no, you don't have to find everything loathsome about the lds church here, that's just a rumor kishkumen started. :lol: :lol: :lol:
_I have a question
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Re: Notre Dame Cathedral vs Salt Lake City Temple, the race

Post by _I have a question »

Symmachus wrote:I know I am supposed to just find everything loathsome about the Church,
Really? Who’s told you that?

but I don't see what's wrong in writing a note of sympathy to the leader of Catholics, because for believing Catholics (among whom the current Pope is occasionally numbered) the legal ownership of the Notre Dame cathedral is irrelevant, whereas its function as an iconic place of Catholic worship is paramount.
The note should’ve been to the people of France, not a particular religious sect within France to whom Mr Nelson is currently trying to pretend Mormonism is an equal. The note is a PR move. If it weren’t Mr Nelson would’ve shown interest in Notre Dame’s plight before it burnt down and hit the headlines. Or he would’ve kept his note private rather than tweeting it out.
“Notre-Dame de Paris remains a potent national symbol for many French people, whether they are religious believers or not. It is telling that, in the hours after the fire started, political leaders and public figures from left to right and across the ideological spectrum were unanimous in declaring that the cathedral should be rebuilt and that no expense should be spared to make that happen,” Father Koczera commented.

“It seems that Notre-Dame de Paris remains a symbol that the people of France can unite around, regardless of their personal beliefs,” he added.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news ... laze-54268

Mormons are people, too.
What has that got to do with it?
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')
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