Return of John Larsen??

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_RockSlider
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Return of John Larsen??

Post by _RockSlider »

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/sunsto ... -it-alone/

I saw a new interview on Mormon stories with John Larsen and thought wow, I have not heard from him for a long time. I started to listen to the Mormon Stories interview and John Dehlin mentioned the above linked talk. I've yet to listen to the MS interview but jumped to the above and found it bizzare.

your thoughts?
_cwald
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Re: Return of John Larsen??

Post by _cwald »

I listened to the larsen interview and his sunstone speech.

I'm not sure what you mean by bizarre.

I did find it interesting that about 18 minutes in, it sounds like Dehlin is talking about the Rosebud incident and that kind of made me sit up.

I think JL is very talented and a great speaker, I wish he would come back and do the ME type stuff. He even recognized that some of his best work was deconstructing the D&C and stuff like the transatlantic vessel, but now he want to build something rather than deconstruct the religion. Fine by me. Not sure what that means to be honest.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
_RockSlider
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Re: Return of John Larsen??

Post by _RockSlider »

I suppose that when John dropped from the scene he was at the time all about creating a new community. It seems he was come back with that same goal. Part of the weirdness to me was it seemed he was indicating that Sunstone was/is/could be this new community?

I just don't see 'the middle way' as being a real option. The old school Mormonism that John touched upon (boy scouts, road shows, building your own chappels, the unique doctrines etc.) are all gone or disappearing rapidly. Of course John is right in his desires, but try and resurrect anything good back out of the existing corporate Mormonism? I suppose the Reorganized church did it (Community of Christ) but they never did hit the levels of corporate Mormonism and the people were indeed the church, hence its current success.
_Kishkumen
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Re: Return of John Larsen??

Post by _Kishkumen »

RockSlider wrote:I just don't see 'the middle way' as being a real option. The old school Mormonism that John touched upon (boy scouts, road shows, building your own chappels, the unique doctrines etc.) are all gone or disappearing rapidly. Of course John is right in his desires, but try and resurrect anything good back out of the existing corporate Mormonism? I suppose the Reorganized church did it (Community of Christ) but they never did hit the levels of corporate Mormonism and the people were indeed the church, hence its current success.


I understand both Larsen's desire and your skepticism. I doubt much will come of all of this, but I am not opposed to people trying. In saying this I am not implying that you are against it.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Craig Paxton
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Re: Return of John Larsen??

Post by _Craig Paxton »

RockSlider wrote:https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/sunstone-podcast-episode-7-you-can-leave-the-church-but-cant-leave-it-alone/

I saw a new interview on Mormon stories with John Larsen and thought wow, I have not heard from him for a long time. I started to listen to the Mormon Stories interview and John Dehlin mentioned the above linked talk. I've yet to listen to the MS interview but jumped to the above and found it bizzare.

your thoughts?



John Larsen has been to the top of the mountain and has now come back down with the tablets. What do the tablets say, they say that we need to heal the wounds in any relationship that might have been damaged during our departures from Mormonism. Life is short and not worth losing friends and family still involved with the church. After dealing with the necessary realities brought on by concluding that the church is not what it claims to be and taking the necessary time to heal from dealing with that reality, take the next step in our journey and heal the personal relationships that might have suffered from our departures from the church. This is what Larsen is sharing with his audience now. It is where I have been for many years and I whole heartedly agree with John Larsen's message of building bridges with our Mormon friends and family by focusing on areas of common agreement instead of always finding fault with the church.

We can agree to disagree but also find areas of common agreement.
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace

"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith

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_RockSlider
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Re: Return of John Larsen??

Post by _RockSlider »

Craig Paxton wrote:We can agree to disagree but also find areas of common agreement.


I think there is a big difference between agreeing to disagree and what I experience with my family. For me it's always the huge elephant in the room. There are their boundaries which I must observe and my apostate boundaries that are not to be considered. When it comes to weddings, who is going to be waiting in the parking lot? Baby blessings who are the unworthy ones? Family dinners that prayer is going to be given come hell or high water, even in my own home. With TBM families there will never be any give and take with the TBM and the apostate family member, there is only the effort on the apostates part to never mention the elephant, always know one's place of expected acceptance of the TBM's beliefs and support their practices.

I still have high hopes that my grandchildren will eventually find their way out. Do I rid myself of any possible influence I might have on them to help them break free? Is sucomming to not trying to defeat the elephant the way? Is sucomming to not trying to help wake them from their deep indoctrination the way? Is sucomming to accepting ones place as a second class family member the way.

Sorry John's great trip to the mountain and bringing back a pacifistic message of peace on earth solves nothing. What is a bit ironic is he seemed to be suggesting that this new community of peace lovers is the organization that BKP declared one of the three enemies of the church (the intellectuals). That's sure to go a long ways in helping one find healthy human relationships with one's family. I guess I'm not seeing all the wisdom you are in John's trip to the burning bush.
_Craig Paxton
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Re: Return of John Larsen??

Post by _Craig Paxton »

RockSlider wrote:
Craig Paxton wrote:We can agree to disagree but also find areas of common agreement.


I think there is a big difference between agreeing to disagree and what I experience with my family. For me it's always the huge elephant in the room. There are their boundaries which I must observe and my apostate boundaries that are not to be considered. When it comes to weddings, who is going to be waiting in the parking lot? Baby blessings who are the unworthy ones? Family dinners that prayer is going to be given come hell or high water, even in my own home. With TBM families there will never be any give and take with the TBM and the apostate family member, there is only the effort on the apostates part to never mention the elephant, always know one's place of expected acceptance of the TBM's beliefs and support their practices.

I still have high hopes that my grandchildren will eventually find their way out. Do I rid myself of any possible influence I might have on them to help them break free? Is sucomming to not trying to defeat the elephant the way? Is sucomming to not trying to help wake them from their deep indoctrination the way? Is sucomming to accepting ones place as a second class family member the way.

Sorry John's great trip to the mountain and bringing back a pacifistic message of peace on earth solves nothing. What is a bit ironic is he seemed to be suggesting that this new community of peace lovers is the organization that Boyd K. Packer declared one of the three enemies of the church (the intellectuals). That's sure to go a long ways in helping one find healthy human relationships with one's family. I guess I'm not seeing all the wisdom you are in John's trip to the burning bush.


I can completely relate to each of these issue as I too have faced each of them over the years, that said, at some point our believing family members have to allow us to be ourselves and be authentic to who we are and we have to allow them the same courtesy. While I will no longer stay quiet when one of my TBM loved ones makes some comment I might have a counter point of view on, I do try to offer my views in as respectful manner as I can. I don't try to trash the church and I'll even offer positive thoughts when they actually do something positive. I have found that building bridges of mutual respect has gotten me further in gaining mutual respect back from my family then tearing down bridges ever did.

This doesn't mean that we have to agree on every point of view our TBM family and friends might hold to, but we can respect that that is what they believe and allow them the room to hold to those beliefs and expect the same respect back from them to hold to our positions. I think what John is saying is find the common ground and build from there.
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace

"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick

“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka
_RockSlider
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Re: Return of John Larsen??

Post by _RockSlider »

Perhaps it's different at the grandparent level. Here, if one wants to be a part of adult children's/grandchildren's lives common ground means meeting their expectations and requirements. Otherwise enjoy those visits once a year for Christmas, perhaps a Birthday card in the mail.
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