Lou Midgley?????s Hysteria

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_kairos
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Re: Lou Midgley’s Hysteria

Post by _kairos »

Can someone explain how LM got the nickname Woody?? Please and thank you!

k
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Lou Midgley’s Hysteria

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

kairos wrote:Can someone explain how LM got the nickname Woody?? Please and thank you!

k


"Woody" is a nickname that was given to Midgley by Will Bagley (at least, that's my understanding). I don't know what it's referring to, however. But it seems to fit, doesn't it?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Tom
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Re: Lou Midgley’s Hysteria

Post by _Tom »

While working tonight on my Webfestschrift piece in honor of Dr. Midgley, I came across a fascinating anecdote related by the man himself. It’s posted as a comment at the mormoninterpreter website. I must confess that I’d never heard this one:
When I taught at Brigham Young University, I taught the Book of Mormon at least one semester for more than fifteen years. I was once summoned to the office of the Dean of Religious Education. When I arrived, I faced both the Dean and a Department chairman. They were highly critical of my teaching. Why? They had gotten a letter from the mother of a Freshman girl that had been sent to the Twelve Apostles and the then President of BYU, which had been routinely sent down the line to the Dean of Religious Education.

This mother was outraged by the fact that on the very first day of class, I had made a brief introduction to how we came to have the Book of Mormon. I had explained, among other things, that Joseph Smith was a Seer, and that he had used the Interpreters that came with the metal plates until he had to return them to the heavenly messenger, and then he had used his own seer stone, which he had put in a hat and then had read a from the stone a few words at a time to his scribes.

This mother was obviously troubled because her daughter had heard things that neither of them already knew. How dare I present accurate information to her daughter in a class on the Book of Mormon at BYU? Well, they had written a letter to this women in which they thanked her for informing them of my heresies, and also promised her that I would never again be allowed to teach the Book of Mormon again.

I asked them what exactly I had gotten wrong. Oh, they agreed that what I had said was exactly what they believed. But, I was obviously not sufficiently aware of the sensitive nature of what we teach. Why not, I asked, try to explain that what I had taught her daughter was clearly new and fully accurate information about the recovery of the Book of Mormon? Well, she might then complain to the Apostles about them, they explained.

I left and as I was passing the Smoot Building, out of the side entrance came the then President of BYU–that is, Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, who I had known for many years. He immediately asked me what was wrong. I explained. He said that he would have something to say to those two those two cowards about how they dealt with that letter. I never quite recovered from that treatment by those two fellows.
I’m a bit surprised that then-President Holland, a former dean of religious education, would refer to those two faithful professors as cowards. They were merely following long-standing BYU religious education SOP for appeasing outraged (“I am outraged!”) parents and other tithepayers.
“A scholar said he could not read the Book of Mormon, so we shouldn’t be shocked that scholars say the papyri don’t translate and/or relate to the Book of Abraham. Doesn’t change anything. It’s ancient and historical.” ~ Hanna Seariac
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Lou Midgley’s Hysteria

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Tom wrote:While working tonight on my Webfestschrift piece in honor of Dr. Midgley, I came across a fascinating anecdote related by the man himself. It’s posted as a comment at the mormoninterpreter website. I must confess that I’d never heard this one:
When I taught at Brigham Young University, I taught the Book of Mormon at least one semester for more than fifteen years. I was once summoned to the office of the Dean of Religious Education. When I arrived, I faced both the Dean and a Department chairman. They were highly critical of my teaching. Why? They had gotten a letter from the mother of a Freshman girl that had been sent to the Twelve Apostles and the then President of BYU, which had been routinely sent down the line to the Dean of Religious Education.

This mother was outraged by the fact that on the very first day of class, I had made a brief introduction to how we came to have the Book of Mormon. I had explained, among other things, that Joseph Smith was a Seer, and that he had used the Interpreters that came with the metal plates until he had to return them to the heavenly messenger, and then he had used his own seer stone, which he had put in a hat and then had read a from the stone a few words at a time to his scribes.

This mother was obviously troubled because her daughter had heard things that neither of them already knew. How dare I present accurate information to her daughter in a class on the Book of Mormon at BYU? Well, they had written a letter to this women in which they thanked her for informing them of my heresies, and also promised her that I would never again be allowed to teach the Book of Mormon again.

I asked them what exactly I had gotten wrong. Oh, they agreed that what I had said was exactly what they believed. But, I was obviously not sufficiently aware of the sensitive nature of what we teach. Why not, I asked, try to explain that what I had taught her daughter was clearly new and fully accurate information about the recovery of the Book of Mormon? Well, she might then complain to the Apostles about them, they explained.

I left and as I was passing the Smoot Building, out of the side entrance came the then President of BYU–that is, Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, who I had known for many years. He immediately asked me what was wrong. I explained. He said that he would have something to say to those two those two cowards about how they dealt with that letter. I never quite recovered from that treatment by those two fellows.
I’m a bit surprised that then-President Holland, a former dean of religious education, would refer to those two faithful professors as cowards. They were merely following long-standing BYU religious education SOP for appeasing outraged (“I am outraged!”) parents and other tithepayers.


Holy smokes, Tom! This is one heck of a find. But it says so much. Of course there have been a whole lot of Mormons who were disturbed to learn that Joseph Smith used a seer stone in his hat: a fact that's so memorably satirized on that infamous episode of South Park. What's funny (and telling) here is Midgley's reaction. He doesn't react with empathy--e.g., he might have said, "Gee... This young lady doesn't know this is the truth? We need to do something about that!" Instead, he says "I never quite recovered." He views this girl's reaction--and the actions taken by the mother--as fundamentally hostile acts. The administrators are "cowards" because they allowed Midgley to be embarrassed by some non-academic rank-and-file member. So: these folks therefore became the enemy. Rank-and-file LDS who didn't happen to know about the obscure doctrines like Adam-God, TK Smoothies, the seer stone, the Kirtland Bank, polygamy with young girls, etc., are now full-blown "hostiles" who have to be ridiculed before they wind up getting the Mopologists into trouble. You can really see the origins of the Mopologists' contempt for uneducated LDS in that comment. Quite remarkable.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Holy Ghost
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Re: Lou Midgley’s Hysteria

Post by _Holy Ghost »

Tom wrote:While working tonight on my Webfestschrift piece in honor of Dr. Midgley, I came across a fascinating anecdote related by the man himself. It’s posted as a comment at the mormoninterpreter website. I must confess that I’d never heard this one:
When I taught at Brigham Young University, I taught the Book of Mormon at least one semester for more than fifteen years. I was once summoned to the office of the Dean of Religious Education. When I arrived, I faced both the Dean and a Department chairman. They were highly critical of my teaching. Why? They had gotten a letter from the mother of a Freshman girl that had been sent to the Twelve Apostles and the then President of BYU, which had been routinely sent down the line to the Dean of Religious Education.

This mother was outraged by the fact that on the very first day of class, I had made a brief introduction to how we came to have the Book of Mormon. I had explained, among other things, that Joseph Smith was a Seer, and that he had used the Interpreters that came with the metal plates until he had to return them to the heavenly messenger, and then he had used his own seer stone, which he had put in a hat and then had read a from the stone a few words at a time to his scribes.

This mother was obviously troubled because her daughter had heard things that neither of them already knew. How dare I present accurate information to her daughter in a class on the Book of Mormon at BYU? Well, they had written a letter to this women in which they thanked her for informing them of my heresies, and also promised her that I would never again be allowed to teach the Book of Mormon again.

I asked them what exactly I had gotten wrong. Oh, they agreed that what I had said was exactly what they believed. But, I was obviously not sufficiently aware of the sensitive nature of what we teach. Why not, I asked, try to explain that what I had taught her daughter was clearly new and fully accurate information about the recovery of the Book of Mormon? Well, she might then complain to the Apostles about them, they explained.

I left and as I was passing the Smoot Building, out of the side entrance came the then President of BYU–that is, Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, who I had known for many years. He immediately asked me what was wrong. I explained. He said that he would have something to say to those two those two cowards about how they dealt with that letter. I never quite recovered from that treatment by those two fellows.
I’m a bit surprised that then-President Holland, a former dean of religious education, would refer to those two faithful professors as cowards. They were merely following long-standing BYU religious education SOP for appeasing outraged (“I am outraged!”) parents and other tithepayers.

I'm a bit incredulous of Midgley's tale. The seer stone in the hat was kept extremely hush-hush by those who knew about it in the 1980s, when the Dodo was BYU's president. I do not doubt that Midgley may have then been aware of it. To have mentioned it in a BYU religion course on the Book of Mormon in the 1980s? Highly unlikely.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Isaac Asimov
_Dr Exiled
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Re: Lou Midgley’s Hysteria

Post by _Dr Exiled »

Holy Ghost wrote:I'm a bit incredulous of Midgley's tale. The seer stone in the hat was kept extremely hush-hush by those who knew about it in the 1980s, when the Dodo was BYU's president. I do not doubt that Midgley may have then been aware of it. To have mentioned it in a BYU religion course on the Book of Mormon in the 1980s? Highly unlikely.


I have to agree that Midge might be telling a tall tale in order to bolster the "church always taught that" meme. Also, Grant Palmer was my seminary teacher back in the 80's and Nelson's youngest daughter was in there along with some other GA kids and grandkids. Grant told us about seer stones and running with the plates, etc. Well that bothered Nelson's daughter (I think her ears actually started to bleed :eek: ) and she told her father about it. Soon thereafter Grant was sent to another high school.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_Paloma
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Re: Lou Midgley’s Hysteria

Post by _Paloma »

Whenever I read some of Lou Midgley or Daniel Peterson's apologetic stories, I get such a sense of hostile pugnaciousness and collegial glee on their part along with hints of superiority and self-congratulation.

I sometimes wonder if they see how they come across to those of us readers or lurkers who remember the skinny list days, and who still see that "insider defend each other and attack the "enemy"at every turn" unpleasantness in the sic et non comments.

To me, it's an unfortunate stain on their otherwise apparent desire to focus on "whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable — if anything is excellent or praiseworthy — think about such things and the God of peace will be with you” (Philippians 4:8)."
_Philo Sofee
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Re: Lou Midgley’s Hysteria

Post by _Philo Sofee »

Paloma wrote:Whenever I read some of Lou Midgley or Daniel Peterson's apologetic stories, I get such a sense of hostile pugnaciousness and collegial glee on their part along with hints of superiority and self-congratulation.

I sometimes wonder if they see how they come across to those of us readers or lurkers who remember the skinny list days, and who still see that "insider defend each other and attack the "enemy"at every turn" unpleasantness in the sic et non comments.

To me, it's an unfortunate stain on their otherwise apparent desire to focus on "whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable — if anything is excellent or praiseworthy — think about such things and the God of peace will be with you” (Philippians 4:8)."


Oh hell, that's the Bible, the poor mistranslated Bible. They don't accept that. They certainly do NOT live by it's teachings of love......
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."
_Lemmie
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Re: Lou Midgley’s Hysteria

Post by _Lemmie »

It seems that Midgley has let slip another piece of the 2012 puzzle. Who is "this fellow" to whom Midgley refers? I can't tell from the context.

Discussion on Sic et Non • 4 comments
New and Old from the Interpreter Foundation

Louis Midgley • 10 hours ago

It was not too long after being told that what had been published in what was called the FARMS Review was essentially worthless, and that included everything I had published, and then on that same day I saw this fellow meet with John Dehlin.

Professor Peterson and I had spent two hours trying to convince this fellow that we were justified in publishing a response to Dehlin's apostasy. It was only shortly thereafter that Professor Peterson was fired as editor of the FARMS Review
(the name had been changed to Mormon Studies Review and we had published one issue under that title. We were ready with a second issue when the entire thing was cancelled, and the Maxwell Institute moved in what was called a "new direction.") And within a week or so, we had Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scripture up and running, and in which we published all of the items we had ready for the second issue of the Mormon Studies Review..

With this in mind, I urge everyone to read very carefully the stunning remarks made by Elder Holland on November 10, 2018 when he delivered the 2018 Neal A Maxwell Lecture at which time he addressed "The Maxwell Legacy in the 21st Century."

Eventually an entirely new Mormon Studies Review began to be published by the Maxwell Institute--one issue each year. With Elder Holland's remarks in mind, please note that the Maxwell Institute no longer publishes the Mormon Studies Review. It has been give to the University of Illinois who will now find someone to edit it.

I am inclined to suggest that a winner can now be declared, with Elder Holland's remarks in mind, as we can get back to, hopefully, defending the faith and the Saints.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... ation.html
 


Peterson has tried for years to argue his ouster had nothing to do with Dehlin but not only does Midgley clearly not agree with that, he now suggests he was involved in the battle!

Plus, did he just say the Interpreter took an entire edition of articles ready for publication through the Maxwell Institute, and just published them under the Interpreter imprimatur instead?
Midgley wrote:...And within a week or so, we had Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scripture up and running, and in which we published all of the items we had ready for the second issue of the Mormon Studies Review..
:eek:
_Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Lou Midgley’s Hysteria

Post by _Doctor CamNC4Me »

The Midge is like the Donald Trump of the mopologetic circus. Ego, stupidity, and a big mouth make it difficult for the MI to operate in the darkness. How he and Peterson managed to bamboozle the their way through a bizarre career of oafish blog-level academia is astonishing, and speaks volumes about BYU as an institution.

Good for them.

eta: I might be wording how I view their academic careers a little harshly. I get that some view Mopologetics as a bit of self-absorbed, narcissistic, inwardly focused, echo chamber of pseudo-intellectuals vying to one up each other to receive ultimately meaningless validation from people who don't actually read what they write, and who use them as a trite talking point as real life avoidance mechanisms because of their social inability to discuss Mormonism as informed members of the Church... but I get that may be an unfair characterization of their lives.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
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