Examples of dishonesty in ?????Saints?????

[Guest]

I know there’s a thread generally discussing the new Church history, but I thought I’d start one specifically for posting the examples of where the writers have been dishonest.

For reference, I think we should use the Church’s own definition of dishonesty.

Lying is intentionally deceiving others. Bearing false witness is one form of lying. The Lord gave this commandment to the children of Israel: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour” (Exodus 20:16). Jesus also taught this when He was on earth (see Matthew 19:18). There are many other forms of lying. When we speak untruths, we are guilty of lying. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest.

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-princ ... y?lang=eng

[_I have a question]

Once Joseph discovered that sharing his vision only turned his neighbors against him, he kept it mostly to himself, content with the knowledge God had given him.18

https://www.lds.org/languages/eng/conte ... 2-hear-him

I have followed footnote 18 and cannot find a supporting reference for the statement that telling his neighbours about his vision turned them against him. There is one sentence that Joseph writes where he claims he couldn’t find anyone who would believe him about the vision. But that’s it.

but could find none that would believe the hevnly vision

http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper- ... mer-1832/3

There are no references that support the claim that Joseph’s neighbours turned against him when he told them about his vision. The statement and the footnote (implying there are references to support it) are dishonest.

[_I have a question]

Once Joseph discovered that sharing his vision only turned his neighbors against him, he kept it mostly to himself, content with the knowledge God had given him.18

https://www.LDS.org/languages/eng/conte ... 2-hear-him

I have followed footnote 18 and cannot find a supporting reference for the statement that telling his neighbours about his vision turned them against him. There is one sentence that Joseph writes where he claims he couldn’t find anyone who would believe him about the vision. But that’s it.

but could find none that would believe the hevnly vision

http://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper- ... mer-1832/3

There are no references that support the claim that Joseph’s neighbours turned against him when he told them about his vision. The statement and the footnote (implying there are references to support it) are dishonest.

Elder Snow continued: “‘Saints’ draws on the power of narrative, but it is not fiction. It is a true story based on the records left behind by the early Saints and by others. Every detail and every line of dialogue is supported by historical references.”

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/ ... NWSxLIDyM_

Elder Snow - CFR that "Joseph discovered that sharing his vision only turned his neighbors against him..." is supported in every detail by a historical reference.

[_I have a question]

Every source in Saints was evaluated for credibility, and each sentence was repeatedly checked for consistency with the sources.

https://www.lds.org/languages/eng/conte ... rces-intro

The example I've given above shows this claim in the "Note On Sources" cannot possibly be true.

[_Stem]

Hey IHAQ I like this thread and would love to see people participate. Sadly I haven't had much time of late to read that silly book and get to the sources. Here's a quick one I saw again today:

chapter 25

Following the Lord’s command, Joseph proposed marriage to Fanny with the help of Levi and the approval of her parents.15

footnote 15 sources:

Mosiah Hancock, Narrative, in Levi Hancock, Autobiography, circa 1896, 63; Historical Introduction to Letter from Thomas B. Marsh, Feb. 15, 1838, in JSP, D6:12; see also Andrew Jenson, Research Notes, Andrew Jenson Collection, Church History Library; Benjamin F. Johnson to George F. Gibbs, circa Apr.–circa Oct. 1903, Benjamin Franklin Johnson, Papers, Church History Library; Eliza Jane Churchill Webb to Mary Bond, Apr. 24, 1876; Eliza Jane Churchill Webb to Mary Bond, May 4, 1876, Biographical Folder Collection (labeled Myron H. Bond), Community of Christ Library-Archives; and Bradley, “Relationship of Joseph Smith and Fanny Alger,” 14–58.

I'm not seeing any of these sources suggesting that Joseph was commanded of God to ask Fanny, nor that Joseph even proposed to her. And to note, all of these sources are very late, except for the letter from Thomas B Marsh.

I don't think each sentence was repeatedly checked for consistency with the sources, nor are all sources evaluated for credibility.

[_Stem]

I got caught up in the Fanny affair last week so I recall some more:

chapter 25:

Since the time had not come to teach plural marriage in the church, Joseph and Fanny kept their marriage private, as the angel had instructed.17

footnote 17 lists:

Mosiah Hancock, Narrative, in Levi Hancock, Autobiography, circa 1896, 63; Eliza Churchill Webb to Mary Bond, May, 4, 1876, Biographical Folder Collection (labeled Myron H. Bond), Community of Christ Library-Archives; Historical Introduction to Letter from Thomas B. Marsh, Feb. 15, 1838, in JSP, D6:13; Tullidge, Women of Mormondom, 368.

The sources are all late except for the letter again, but I see nothing supporting the claim of an angel telling Joseph and Fanny to keep their marriage private. There is mention that an angel spoke to Joseph from those who heard it, apparently, from Joseph in Nauvoo--unrelated to the Fanny affair.

This example also shows that each sentence was not repeatedly checked for consistency with the sources. I also find the claim that the sources were evaluated for credibility.

ETA: A poster over at MD&D objected to my point regarding the angel telling Joseph because he said, it doesn't really matter that the source mentions the angel appearing to Joseph during the Nauvoo period, because that's just how historians do their work. he then concluded the historians associated with the Saints project are the bestest, therefore they are right. see rneal's posts:
http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/709 ... le/?page=7