It is currently Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:59 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Wales and early Mormonism
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:37 am 
Stake President

Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:50 pm
Posts: 568
I was listening to one of Dr John Dehlin's old podcasts recently, and he had a guest on who made some unusual claims about the level of Welsh influence in early Mormonism:

    You would hear Welsh spoken as often as English in Nauvoo. (I expect this is hyperbole, but still).
    The Tabernacle Choir originally sang in Welsh.
    The first language that the Book of Mormon was translated into was Welsh.

Is anyone able to shed any light on these claims? I've never heard of a special relationship between the early Mormons and Wales before.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wales and early Mormonism
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:19 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 2246
Here yeah go: http://welshmormon.BYU.edu/Default.aspx

_________________
"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace

"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick

“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wales and early Mormonism
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:24 am 
God

Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 8:38 pm
Posts: 1227
I have many welch ancestors..but they came much later..but in Utah in Tooele County..a lot of ancestry from Wales and Sweden. Interesting...going back to my geneology I guess. I wonder if those who came by boat had relatives already here???


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wales and early Mormonism
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:24 am 
God

Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 8:38 pm
Posts: 1227
Craig Paxton wrote:

Thank You!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wales and early Mormonism
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:29 am 
Stake President

Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:50 pm
Posts: 568
Ha! Excellent. Thanks very much for that :smile:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wales and early Mormonism
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:44 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:53 am
Posts: 4080
Location: Oregon
Brigham Young sent a large group of Welsh converts to settle the Malad Valley. They still have a lot of the old Welsh traditions and are quite upfront and proud of their history. You can find a lot information here.

http://welshfestival.com/

Quote:
Malad Valley residents invite everyone to the Malad Valley Welsh Festival to celebrate the rich Welsh heritage that has contributed to the quality of life in the settlement of this beautiful valley.

Welsh pioneers were the first to settle in the Malad Valley in the 1860s. One of their many Welsh traditions was an annual cultural arts event called an eisteddfod, with roots going back 900 years.

Eisteddfod was celebrated locally for many years until World War 1. In 2005, after a 90 year break, this annual cultural event, now called the Malad Valley Welsh Festival, once again became a reality.

Today, Malad Valley, Idaho, has the largest per-capita concentration of people of Welsh ancestry outside the country of Wales itself. For that reason, many residents of the Valley enjoy reestablishing their Welsh roots.

_________________
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wales and early Mormonism
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:23 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:06 pm
Posts: 16719
Location: Northern Utah
Craig Paxton wrote:


Thanks for that! I found my ancestor, Evan T. Jones, who came from Wales to Utah in 1868, in his late twenties.

_________________
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wales and early Mormonism
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:52 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:49 am
Posts: 8175
Location: Somewhere between bemused and curious.
I have to read thread titles more carefully.

I thought this thread was going to be about Moby Zelph.

_________________
"The lives we lead now are not dress rehearsals, they are the only performance we have. Therefore what matters is what we have here, the people we know and and love and the good we can do for the world"
Sean Carroll


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wales and early Mormonism
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 8:50 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:32 pm
Posts: 1169
Location: Parowan, Utah
Wow, it looks like I might be related to a some of you fine people.

Others have already backed this up, but I would also contextualize this by pointing out that 1) Welsh was much more widely spoken in Wales in the nineteenth century than it is today, 2) unlike the case of Irish until the end of that century, Welsh-speaking communities were also highly literate and were an actively reading public, so it makes sense that that activity was continued in the USA and used in evangelization, and that 3) because Welsh nationalism had a complicated relationship with the Welsh version of the Church of England, the most likely groups open to conversion were Welsh-speaking communities, who also tended to be rather cool towards Anglicanism and were a hotbead of Noncomformists, etc.

In my own experience, I know from my grandmother, who was a Welsh speaker (at least in her earliest years; don't think she ever spoke it as an adult), that there were still Welsh language newspapers in Carbon and Sanpete counties when she was a kid.

_________________
"As to any slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about them."

—B. Redd McConkie


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wales and early Mormonism
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:25 am 
Stake President

Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:50 pm
Posts: 568
Iechyd da, chaps. Maybe we're all cousins.

Symmachus makes some good points. Anglicanism was already a busted flush in Wales by the time that Mormonism came along. There was a famous religious census in 1851, and it showed that only half of all Brits went to church and only half of those went to the Church of England. In Wales, that last figure went down to something like 20% (this is all from memory). In business terms, the hold of the monopoly provider had been well and truly broken, and the situation was ripe for some Yankee entrepreneurs to move in and open a Cardiff office.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wales and early Mormonism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:17 am 
Sunbeam

Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:40 am
Posts: 67
After England, the most successful mission to the British Isles was the Welsh. Scotland had limited success and Ireland basically had no success. I've been interested in diving more into the "why" of this but have never had the chance to chase it down fully. These are some of the tidbits I have collected. If you're interested, definitely read into Captain Dan Jones - interesting stuff.

https://byustudies.BYU.edu/content/reve ... -dan-jones

https://rsc.BYU.edu/archived/supporting ... irst#_edn1

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/topics/rel ... _centuries


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wales and early Mormonism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:32 am 
Stake President

Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:50 pm
Posts: 568
Thank you! Those look like excellent resources. That Davies fellow sounds particularly interesting.

I wonder why the Scots were so resistant to the restored gospel.... In Ireland, the Protestant and Catholic churches had the population sewn up so tightly that there was really no room for interlopers; but that wouldn't have been the case to the same extent in Scotland.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wales and early Mormonism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:32 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:32 pm
Posts: 1169
Location: Parowan, Utah
Johannes wrote:

I wonder why the Scots were so resistant to the restored gospel.... In Ireland, the Protestant and Catholic churches had the population sewn up so tightly that there was really no room for interlopers; but that wouldn't have been the case to the same extent in Scotland.


Maybe D & C 89 has something to do with it:

Quote:
And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

_________________
"As to any slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about them."

—B. Redd McConkie


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Wales and early Mormonism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:27 pm 
Stake President

Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:50 pm
Posts: 568
Touché!, as they say in Pitlochrie.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 49 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group