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 Post subject: I'm Very Proud of My TBM Wife
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:24 pm 
God
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My very believing wife and I had an amazing conversation after watching the HBO documentary "Believer" the other night. While we both have found our happy place within our relationship, a place of mutual respect and agreeing to disagree when it comes to how we each view the church and its truth claims, we took a substantial leap forward after watching this documentary. Upon its conclusion I asked my wife her thoughts regarding what we had watched. She admitted to me for the very first time that the issues in the documentary were her Achilles heel with respect to the church and that she did not agree with the churches positions with how it treats the LGBQ community. Here are just a few of the new found places of agreement we now have after watching this film.

01. We both disagreed with the church and how they took such an active role in denying people their constitutional rights such as with Prop 8 in California. We both ache and mourn for those individuals and families who lives have been impacted because of the harmful rhetoric that the church has given. After Watching she admitted that for some the church is not a healthy place.

02.She disagrees with the church’s stance towards BYU students who slip up, that they pay such a heavy price both socially, culturally and personally by being expelled and suffer such social scorn and shamming.

03.She admitted that the churches rhetoric against marriage equality was wrong by suggesting that it would cause the down fall of traditional marriage.

04.She holds a prominent calling in her stake, she told me that when asked why I no longer attend, she has no problem telling members of her stake that I am a non-believer. When told by those inquiring minds that they could never be married to someone who has left the church she responds pragmatically…well then I feel sorry for you, cuz more than likely you will face something similar to this in your marriage and if you can’t be pragmatic and find compromise your only other option is divorce. She and I chose to make it work.

05. We both found it cultish that ticket sales for the Provo Love-Loud concertonly took off AFTER the church gave its tacit approval.

06. We were both very disappointed that the church doubled down on its hateful rhetoric after the concert, during the October General Conference.

I'm very proud of my wife she has come a very long way and become quite progressive in her views toward church culture and while I believe that she will always be a believer on some level and remain an active member of the church, to see how her faith has evolved since my exit is really quite astounding to me.

While I admit that a mixed faith marriage is not ideal and at times down right difficult, that we have been able to make it work and on some level thrive while still being right in the heart of the Wasatch Front Mormon Community is comforting. There is hope. The church has not made our survival easy, in some ways in fact it has worked to destroy us, and yet we survive in spite of their efforts.

Edit to Add: My wife is also against the November Policy. She can't see why the church felt the need to make a child chose between the church and their own parents. Classic church double bind.

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"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace

"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick

“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka


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 Post subject: Re: I'm Very Proud of My TBM Wife
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:43 pm 
God

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:39 pm
Posts: 7074
Craig Paxton wrote:
01. We both disagreed with the church and how they took such an active role in denying people their constitutional rights such as with Prop 8 in California .
We both ache and mourn for those individuals and families who lives have been impacted because of the harmful rhetoric that the church has given.
After Watching she admitted that for some the church is not a healthy place.


There is indeed a tension between the doctrines of the church and those that live in the LGBT community. No one disputes that.

However, I read this in the news yesterday and then saw it on the Meridian site today and thought, "Well, this is kind of cool!"

Step by step we can come together to some degree of understanding and respect.

https://ldsmag.com/san-francisco-gay-me ... cle-choir/

I'm glad that you've been able to make things work with your wife.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: I'm Very Proud of My TBM Wife
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:21 pm
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That's cool, Craig (almost called you your son's name there).

I went to a baptism for my niece some months back, we arrived a little late like apostates would, but I swear it was your wife up there talking. We got escorted out when it was our nieces baptism moment so I didn't get to go say hi. She was gone after the ceremony. Must be or have been a stake primary leader, I'm guessing? But I did say to myself, "what a nice lady".

Thanks, my good man, for the story. Sounds encouraging to me.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm Very Proud of My TBM Wife
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 06, 2016 8:38 pm
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I am proud of your wife too. What a wonderful person. Her love for you shines in her response to others about your unbelieving soul. Happy for you and your family!!


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 Post subject: Re: I'm Very Proud of My TBM Wife
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:46 pm 
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I enjoyed reading your post Craig. She sounds like a keeper.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm Very Proud of My TBM Wife
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:30 am 
God

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:01 am
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mentalgymnast wrote:
There is indeed a tension between the doctrines of the church and those that live in the LGBT community. No one disputes that.

Regards,
MG


You may want to sit down for this...

...there’s no such thing as the LGBT community. Out here in the real world, gay people and straight people intermingle in one big happy family of humanity. As neighbours, as work colleagues, as team members, as partners, as family members, as friends etc.

...there’s no tension between the doctrines of the church and those people either. The tension is between members who are gay, or members who have family/friends that are gay, or members with a moral backbone, and church doctrine. Once the person removes themselves from the nonsense of Mormon doctrine, guess what....that’s right, no tension.

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― Daniel Kahneman, Nobel Prize Winner, 'Thinking, Fast and Slow'


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 Post subject: Re: I'm Very Proud of My TBM Wife
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:10 am 
God

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:39 pm
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I have a question wrote:
mentalgymnast wrote:
There is indeed a tension between the doctrines of the church and those that live in the LGBT community. No one disputes that.

Regards,
MG


You may want to sit down for this...

...there’s no such thing as the LGBT community. Out here in the real world, gay people and straight people intermingle in one big happy family of humanity. As neighbours, as work colleagues, as team members, as partners, as family members, as friends etc.

...there’s no tension between the doctrines of the church and those people either. The tension is between members who are gay, or members who have family/friends that are gay, or members with a moral backbone, and church doctrine. Once the person removes themselves from the nonsense of Mormon doctrine, guess what....that’s right, no tension.


Read carefully. Notice that I said there is a tension between the doctrines of the church and those that live in the LGBT community.

The link I posted to the performance of the Gay Men's Choir and the MoTabs was simply to show that even within a church that has orthodox doctrines regarding homosexuality and marriage, there can be friendly association and respect.

Regards,
MG


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 Post subject: Re: I'm Very Proud of My TBM Wife
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:35 pm 
God
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Stem wrote:
That's cool, Craig (almost called you your son's name there).

I went to a baptism for my niece some months back, we arrived a little late like apostates would, but I swear it was your wife up there talking. We got escorted out when it was our nieces baptism moment so I didn't get to go say hi. She was gone after the ceremony. Must be or have been a stake primary leader, I'm guessing? But I did say to myself, "what a nice lady".

Thanks, my good man, for the story. Sounds encouraging to me.


Yeah that was her. She enjoys the calling, but it kinda cramps my lifestyle...meaning we always have to work around it...looking forward to her being released and so is she.

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"...The official doctrine of the LDS Church is a Global Flood" - BCSpace

"...What many people call sin is not sin." - Joseph Smith

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" - Phillip K. Dick

“The meaning of life is that it ends" - Franz Kafka


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 Post subject: Re: I'm Very Proud of My TBM Wife
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:36 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:01 am
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mentalgymnast wrote:
Read carefully. Notice that I said there is a tension between the doctrines of the church and those that live in the LGBT community.
Read carefully, I responded directly to that tension.

Quote:
The link I posted to the performance of the Gay Men's Choir and the MoTabs was simply to show that even within a church that has orthodox doctrines regarding homosexuality and marriage, there can be friendly association and respect.

Regards,
MG

No, you’re talking about a PR stunt.

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“A reliable way to make people believe in falsehoods is frequent repetition, because familiarity is not easily distinguished from truth. Authoritarian institutions and marketers have always known this fact.”
― Daniel Kahneman, Nobel Prize Winner, 'Thinking, Fast and Slow'


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 Post subject: Re: I'm Very Proud of My TBM Wife
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:24 pm 
the very elect
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mentalgymnast wrote:
There is indeed a tension between the doctrines of the church and those that live in the LGBT community. No one disputes that.

Regards,
MG

So if an active LDS member lived in the Castro district of San Francisco, there is tension between LDS Inc and her/him??

Drink some iced tea for cripessakes.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm Very Proud of My TBM Wife
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:54 am 
God
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Never mind the fascinating detente reached within a longstanding marriage, let's immediately turn to MG's one note symphony of silliness. "All is well...all is well." :biggrin: A feel good in Meridian (what a cyberrag) erases the vicious Prop 8 lies and actions and the ongoing efforts of Kirton/McConkie et al against equality. Yeah, no. Mormon leaders will piss on you and tell you it's raining. They're still high fiving each other over ending the racist priesthood policy that they instituted themselves.
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