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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:55 pm 
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cinepro wrote:
I don't have much to say about Mr. Rogers, but I will just pop in to say that if you live in the Los Angeles area, the Skirball Center in west LA has a Jim Henson exhibit right now and it's fantastic. They have a real Kermit and Ernie and Bert on display, among countless other artifacts from his entire career.

The Jim Henson Exhibition

And it's free on Thursdays. Highly recommended.


I saw this in Seattle last summer. It was terrific!

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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:28 am 
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Mormons, in general, are not necessarily a warm and kind people just because they are religious and hold moral values some of which are highly esteemed by a civilized world community. Mormons, in general, often are simply living their religion because of a sense of duty and responsibility to their church and the invisible god that is supposed to be running said church. This sense of duty is often rigid and blunt and it may be hard pressed to feel genuine love and appreciation from a people who are so judgmental believing that they are better than everyone else because they are of the chosen seed, the House of Israel -- hence racism in Mormonism is rampant. They think they are special. They think they are chosen. They think they will inherit the earth. But so many of them are arrogant -- a selfrighteous people that adhere to their religion and philosophy strictly out of duty and fear of being punished if they fail or fall short. They are held captive by the threats of eternal punishment and the anger of their invisible Heavenly Father who might at any time lash out at them if they fail to walk up to every one of their covenants and display total obedience. Mormons are slaves to their invisible Jesus. They can't do anything without his permission. They have to pray to their Heavenly Father for everything and constantly ask permission or approval and are ever trying to tap into the invisible powers of the Holy Spook. What a life! What drudgery. What misery. What suffering. How dreadful it is to be a Mormon.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:45 am 
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Shulem wrote:
Mormons, in general, are not necessarily a warm and kind people just because they are religious and hold moral values some of which are highly esteemed by a civilized world community. Mormons, in general, often are simply living their religion because of a sense of duty and responsibility to their church and the invisible god that is supposed to be running said church. This sense of duty is often rigid and blunt and it may be hard pressed to feel genuine love and appreciation from a people who are so judgmental believing that they are better than everyone else because they are of the chosen seed, the House of Israel -- hence racism in Mormonism is rampant. They think they are special. They think they are chosen. They think they will inherit the earth. But so many of them are arrogant -- a selfrighteous people that adhere to their religion and philosophy strictly out of duty and fear of being punished if they fail or fall short. They are held captive by the threats of eternal punishment and the anger of their invisible Heavenly Father who might at any time lash out at them if they fail to walk up to every one of their covenants and display total obedience. Mormons are slaves to their invisible Jesus. They can't do anything without his permission. They have to pray to their Heavenly Father for everything and constantly ask permission or approval and are ever trying to tap into the invisible powers of the Holy Spook. What a life! What drudgery. What misery. What suffering. How dreadful it is to be a Mormon.


I like Mormons, generally speaking. I do agree that the biggest problem in the church is that people do things in the church mostly out of duty or obligation, not because they have a desire to do them. That's why the LDS Scouting program has always been much inferior to the programs affiliated with other groups. In the church, you're called to be Scoutmaster, whether you are interested in Scouting or not. So you do what you need to do, knowing all along that it's temporary, so you don't put a lot of effort into building a solid, long-term program. The same is true at all levels of local leadership, to some degree. Even the most dedicated people are only in callings for a while, aren't particularly well-trained, and know it will end.

As for the rest, yes, there's a lot of guilt, shame, and fear used to motivate people and keep them in line. There are certainly better ways of motivating people. It occurred to me recently that one thing you never hear from a visiting GA is, "You are doing really well. Keep up the good work!" No, we heard things more along the lines of what I experienced at a mission conference:

Quote:
The day I talked to my dad there was a special church meeting: One of the leaders of the church, Elder F. Burton Howard, was coming to speak to us. I was excited, as I had not seen a high church leader since leaving the MTC. His office in São Paulo had been calling my office every day for a few weeks, asking if there were any possibility of a general strike in the country. Because there was essentially only one labor union in Bolivia, the Central Obrera Boliviana (COB), when the union declared a strike, the whole country shut down. Every day I assured Elder Howard’s secretary that there were no signs of a strike. A few days before Elder Howard’s arrival, I heard from one of my contacts at the airline that there could possibly be a short-term strike, so when Brazil called, I had to tell them it was a slight possibility. Up to that point, Elder Howard had planned to tour all of Bolivia and hold meetings with the missionaries in every large town. With that one phone call, Elder Howard’s office canceled all meetings except for a meeting with church members in Cochabamba. I worked assiduously to cancel airline tickets and hotel reservations.

The day after the church meeting we had a missionary conference with Elder Howard. All the missionaries in and around Cochabamba were there, perhaps eighty of us. I was so excited to hear his words of wisdom, but what we got was a nearly hour-long harangue during which this tall, lanky American with a comb-over and a scarred left eye yelled at us in Spanish for our lack of commitment to missionary work. We were, he said, lazy and disobedient to the rules and to the commandments. At one point, he leaned out over the podium, glaring, and said, in English, “I don’t make the rules. That’s just the way it is.” He also told us we shouldn’t be discouraged or depressed (I was a little of both) because we were where the Lord wanted us to be.

My companion and I went home that night feeling devastated. We had been working so hard. We both had been sick and had some days forced ourselves to get out of bed and do the Lord’s work. But it was clear that what we had given wasn’t enough. The Lord expected more from us. In our bedroom we sat, nearly in tears, talking about what we had heard. It didn’t take too long for us to decide that Elder Howard was right: we weren’t working hard enough, and we needed to be more committed. By the time I wrote in my journal that night, I had decided that this conference had been “Awesome!”

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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:49 am 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
That doesn't answer the question that I asked.


My omitting a yes or no doesn't mean I didn't answer the question. I simply said he is a school teacher with a big mouth and since he has a big mouth he says a lot things. And out of all those things I've heard him say, I've not heard anything worth repeating in direct response to your question. So, I guess, in a way, that answers your question.

:wink:

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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:58 am 
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If we are at a point in Mormon discussions where we're discussing Mr. Rogers vis a vis Mormonism, i'd say we have officially jumped the shark.

Yes, I understand Dr Peterson brought it up but no one is forcing us to follow him over that ramp.

:confused:

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Last edited by Fence Sitter on Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:59 am 
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To these sort of apologists, the idea of a good, decent human being who is *not* a Mormon is deeply threatening. Think of how insecure they must be. Sounds like secret doubters to me... :razz:

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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:59 am 
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Runtu,

General Authorities of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are like Egyptian taskmasters. They carry about their authoritative whips and constantly remind the member-slaves that they must work harder and gather more straw.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:06 am 
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That's not good enough! You must move the bricks faster -- be more efficient if you're going to build the kingdom and prepare the way of the King.

Now get to work! Cease from murmuring and question not the authority of your King.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:12 am 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
If we are at a point in Mormon discussions where discussing Mr. Rogers vis a vis Mormonism, i'd say we have officially jumped the shark.

Yes, I understand Dr Peterson brought it up but no one is forcing us to follow him over that ramp.

:confused:


Agreed. I don't know that you can make much out of his dislike of Mr. Rogers, mystifying as it may be.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:13 am 
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Hell, the Mopes like to [deleted] to the idea of righteously removing Laban's head. They probably fill their homes with racist MacNaughton fantasy "paintings". Gods in embryo. :eek:

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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:21 am 
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Shulem wrote:
Runtu,

General Authorities of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are like Egyptian taskmasters. They carry about their authoritative whips and constantly remind the member-slaves that they must work harder and gather more straw.


One of my friends said, in all seriousness, "I think the brethren hate the missionaries." In all his years, he had never heard a general authority say a kind word to the missionaries about their service. It was always criticism. He tells the story of him and his twin brother sitting outside his stake president's office waiting to be released from their missions. After two years in South America, they wore pretty threadbare clothes and shoes, they were both sunburned, and my friend was drastically underweight. A General Authority came by with another man and, seeing the state they were in, loudly berated them for their slovenly appearance, saying that they should be ashamed to look like that and claim to represent the Savior.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:37 am 
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Runtu wrote:
Fence Sitter wrote:
If we are at a point in Mormon discussions where discussing Mr. Rogers vis a vis Mormonism, i'd say we have officially jumped the shark.

Yes, I understand Dr Peterson brought it up but no one is forcing us to follow him over that ramp.

:confused:


Agreed. I don't know that you can make much out of his dislike of Mr. Rogers, mystifying as it may be.


Yeah, we all have our own idea of how best to use this deadly serious discussion forum, where my avatar is a Jesus with a dinosaur head.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:44 am 
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Runtu wrote:
One of my friends said, in all seriousness, "I think the brethren hate the missionaries." In all his years, he had never heard a general authority say a kind word to the missionaries about their service. It was always criticism. He tells the story of him and his twin brother sitting outside his stake president's office waiting to be released from their missions. After two years in South America, they wore pretty threadbare clothes and shoes, they were both sunburned, and my friend was drastically underweight. A General Authority came by with another man and, seeing the state they were in, loudly berated them for their slovenly appearance, saying that they should be ashamed to look like that and claim to represent the Savior.


I encountered a few GA's on my mission and found each one different. McConkie was very standoffish and formal but nothing in his behavior bothered me. I had his Mormon Doctrine with me, but I didn't think to ask him to sign it. Packer was just sour and basically let you know he was there to make decisions and you were there to follow them. I spent a couple of hours with A Theodore Tuttle giving him a tour of some of the chapels in our mission and he was personable and funny. At one location he and I were standing alone in a large dining room and he turned to me and with a straight face said "Elder, one day you will be telling your grandchildren about the time a general authority of the Church turned to you and said he would really like to have a dining room table like this." My mission president was called as a general authority while he was our mission president and he was always good about taking care of our welfare.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:01 am 
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Rogers did emotional labor. I was a pretty emotionally-filled-up child and he didn't interest me much, but I can appreciate the work he did and what he made available to those who needed it.

Feeling like you are loved and valued and respecting that of others is arguably central to any legitimate permutation of Mormomism. And doing so is imo fundamental to a working civilisation.

So, yea, I think it's worth noting the derision a so-called intellectual might have for Rogers, especially one dealing deeply with religion and religious identity.

I think it points to DP as not being much of a big-tent thinker. Perhaps he's of the stripe that sees the gospel brand as really as exclusive as the most fundamentalists see it.

But then, YMMMV, I value emotional labor.


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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:11 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:

Yeah, we all have our own idea of how best to use this deadly serious discussion forum, where my avatar is a Jesus with a dinosaur head.


Has Cassius U. really got to the point where it is seriously considering comparisons between Mr McFeely and Joseph Smith?

Are Chief Brocket and Porter Rockwell really that similar?

Is King Friday III really modeled after Heber J Grant?
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I dunno Kishkumen, we may have to reconsider our priorities here.

:wink:

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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:13 am 
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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:21 am 
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Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
- DCP publicly stating how much he hated Angela Lansbury and even cheered when she died onscreen.
- DCP publicly stating his disdain for Gerald Bradford over and over.
-DCP publicly stating he's held a multi-year long grudge against DrW.
-DCP's fear and loathing of Dr. Scratch.
-DCP publicly stating his hatred for comedian Bill Maher and how he almost physically assaulted him at a restaurant.

The two doctors have hounded Dr. Peterson for some time and Gerald Bradford ended the apologetic guerilla activities at the Maxwell Institute.

Have no idea why he would speak ill of the deceased Angela Lansbury's passing. Perhaps some episode of Murder She Wrote offended him.

Good thing Dr. Peterson restrained himself from attacking Bill Maher since that would have posed a legal problem for Dr. Peterson and a PR a problem for both the Church and BYU. It might, however, have garnered a lot of donation money for the Interpreter from past Maxwell supporters.

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Last edited by moksha on Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:09 pm 
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But only on Tuesdays.

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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:15 pm 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Yeah, we all have our own idea of how best to use this deadly serious discussion forum, where my avatar is a Jesus with a dinosaur head.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:38 pm 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
I dunno Kishkumen, we may have to reconsider our priorities here.

:wink:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Indeed!


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 Post subject: Re: The Mopologists Don't "Get" Mr. Rogers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:50 pm 
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When I was really young I was a huge fan of PBS. My mom says that when I was two years old she would put me in front of the TV and I would intently watch entire episodes of Mr. Rogers and Sesame Street end on end without ever becoming bored or distracted.

I never lost my taste for Sesame Street and I've instructed my daughter that if I ever find myself in a nursing home bed suffering from Alzheimer's disease, she should find some DVDs of 70's era Sesame Street and show them to me all day long. Even if I've forgotten everything else and I feel lost and confused, I know that Sesame Street will always entertain me and calm me.

In contrast, I sort of outgrew Mr. Rogers. While I still think having a trolley and a working giant traffic light in my living room would be the pinnacle of interior design, the pace of that show became too slow to me. Sure, it was great while he was changing his shoes and telling us to have a snappy day. But sometimes got boring listening to him say, "Let's go feed the fishes now" and then slowly walk over to the tank.

That said, I'm a huge fan of who he was and what he represented. In 1997 he won an Emmy for Lifetime Achievement. His acceptance speech is amazing--he doesn't use the word "I" once. That has to be a record.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upm9LnuCBUM

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