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 Post subject: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Just got some additional information on those police reports.

Not from the police, but from a different source.

I now know some of the information in some of the redactions. There are parts still redacted that I have not been able to gain access to.

PAGE 6--In the two lines immediately after Joseph Bishop tells the police "the room did not have a bed, TV or VHS tapes," the redacted portion reads: "He said he also gave a backrub to ____ _____ where he rubbed her buttocks. ____ _____ was living in his house at the time." The following two lines remain redacted.

Note this is the sister missionary who tried to kill herself at the MTC. After that, Joseph Bishop took her into his home to help her recuperate. I know the name of this girl, but am not disclosing it.

PAGE 7--The first redacted line at the end of the first paragraph, right after, "He (Bishop) said he didn't remember when ___ confronted him about the rape," states: "A copy of the recording is attached to this report. Refer to the recording for more details."


It appears the police did not want the public to know there was a separate audio recording of their interview with Joseph Bishop that contained "more details."

PAGE 9--The three lines redacted here read: "McKenna Denson sent me a rough draft of her statement through email. However, the case was closed before she was able to send me a completed version." I think the last line of this paragraph is still redacted.

It appears the police didn't want the public to know about McKenna sending in a rough draft of her statement.

If anybody has any additional thoughts on why BYU Police wouldn't want these aspects released to the public, I am all ears.

By the way, I have now obtained a copy of the rough draft letter sent by McKenna to the BYU Police Department and which forms part of their investigative file. (Let's just say I have a mole in the BYU Police Department.)

At the top of page four of this letter is an interesting detail related by McKenna, and which I have little doubt serves as at least part of the basis for the BYU Police not wanting the public to know about this letter.

You will recall McKenna was sent on her mission to Washington D.C. where she suffered a mental breakdown.

After that, she was sent back to Utah for rehabilitation and to see if she could still go out and complete her mission.

McKenna saw a mental health counselor and then a church authority before being approved to return on her mission, only this time to Wisconsin.

The church authority McKenna saw was not just her bishop or stake president, as it would have been if you or I were in the same situation.

It was Thomas S. Monson.

Here is the line from her rough draft that the BYU Police doesn't want the public to know they have.

"I had to meet with Elder Thomas S. Monson before I could be released back into the mission field."

And no.

I am not making this up.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:46 pm 
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My son is in the military. His job is basically to oversee a large group of kids going through some intensive language training. Being the military, there is a lot of rules. Being kids there are a lot of rule breakers. His job is to deal with the rule breakers. Time after time, when he brings these kids in for some minor infraction, they lie to him about what happened. He has got pretty good at spotting when they are lying. He tries to convince the kids that the penalty for what ever they did is much less than the penalty for lying, which is true but time after time they maintain the lie until it is obvious even to them that everyone knows they are lying.

It isn't the crime that is a problem here, it is the cover up and how far it extends.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:29 pm 
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O villainy! Ho, let the door be locked.

Treachery! Seek it out.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:43 pm 
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Thomas S. Monson...well there you go..Consig..you're just making this up.
What a mess. :confused:


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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:44 pm 
Sunbeam

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Surely the remaining Page 6 redaction is follow up information on that sister missionary? I would imagine it to say something about whether or not they have contacted her separately or have statements on file from her.

The Thomas S. Monson thing is huge. If it turns out that it can be implied that he knew - and did nothing - this is Catholic Church level cover-up.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:56 pm 
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consiglieri wrote:
"I had to meet with Elder Thomas S. Monson before I could be released back into the mission field."

She probably had to show Tommy her breasts and sing a little song too just to make him smile. I can easily believe that. Mormon prophets are creepy and full of deception.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:05 am 
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consiglieri wrote:
By the way, I have now obtained a copy of the rough draft letter sent by McKenna to the BYU Police Department and which forms part of their investigative file. (Let's just say I have a mole in the BYU Police Department.)

At the top of page four of this letter is an interesting detail related by McKenna, and which I have little doubt serves as at least part of the basis for the BYU Police not wanting the public to know about this letter.

You will recall McKenna was sent on her mission to Washington D.C. where she suffered a mental breakdown.

After that, she was sent back to Utah for rehabilitation and to see if she could still go out and complete her mission.

McKenna saw a mental health counselor and then a church authority before being approved to return on her mission, only this time to Wisconsin.

The church authority McKenna saw was not just her bishop or stake president, as it would have been if you or I were in the same situation.

It was Thomas S. Monson.

Here is the line from her rough draft that the BYU Police doesn't want the public to know they have.

"I had to meet with Elder Thomas S. Monson before I could be released back into the mission field."

And no.

I am not making this up.

Any idea why she had to meet with a GA prior to her going back out on her mission? Was that standard procedure back then, do you know?

Also, someone post this over on the MD&D board!! I don't post there or I would do it. I would just love to see smac go crazy trying to defend this piece of information!


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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:13 am 
Sunbeam

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Madison54 wrote:
Any idea why she had to meet with a GA prior to her going back out on her mission? Was that standard procedure back then, do you know?

My understanding was that if you had a baby and gave it up for adoption (male or female) you need super-special permission to go on a mission.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:19 am 
Apostle

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consiglieri wrote:
Just got some additional information on those police reports.

[SNIP!]

I am not making this up.

I'm not doubting you at all, but I am curious. What source? How does someone have access to these redacted portions if the police were unwilling to put it out there? Does anyone besides the police have the recording?

Since McKenna did not mention Elder Monson in all of this, otherwise, can we assume she did not divulge to him that she was raped in the MTC? You would think if she told him she would have mentioned that in the previous recordings and interviews.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:40 am 
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consiglieri wrote:
Just got some additional information on those police reports.

Not from the police, but from a different source.

The church authority McKenna saw was not just her bishop or stake president, as it would have been if you or I were in the same situation.

It was Thomas S. Monson.

Here is the line from her rough draft that the BYU Police doesn't want the public to know they have.

"I had to meet with Elder Thomas S. Monson before I could be released back into the mission field."

And no.

I am not making this up.

I may be overstepping and connecting dots that aren't there...BUT...IF Miss Denson informed Monson of her Rape at the MTC as part of her interview and he sat on this information and failed to pursue an investigation into the allegations, does that make Monson an accessory after the fact? Or does that only apply in murder situations? "IF" he was informed and failed to do anything, it at least makes him complicit in a cover up.

That said, I just can't believe that Monson, IF informed, would then turn around and send this girl back out on her mission...so my guess is that he was not aware of the allegations...

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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:12 am 
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Tuna_Surprise wrote:
Madison54 wrote:
Any idea why she had to meet with a GA prior to her going back out on her mission? Was that standard procedure back then, do you know?

My understanding was that if you had a baby and gave it up for adoption (male or female) you need super-special permission to go on a mission.

Yes, I understand that would have had to take place before she originally went out on her mission. But, this was after that, correct? (Or am I off on my timeline?).

She was going back out after having to come home from serving, if I'm understanding this correctly. So, would she have to have that all cleared again?

I just have to believe that if she'd come home because of a mental breakdown, she'd discuss the rape as at least a partial cause for this breakdown. But then, she only believed it was a sexual assault, not a rape at that time. Still serious though, and to not bring it up at all with Monson would seem odd if she was being cleared to go back out on her mission.


Last edited by Madison54 on Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:59 am 
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Her complaint says that she first reported the incident with Bishop in 1987 to her local bishop. The complaint does not allege that she ever reported it to Monson. I'd be very surprised if she reported it to Monson but didn't mention that report in the complaint. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... hurch.html

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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:07 am 
God
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Madison54 wrote:
Any idea why she had to meet with a GA prior to her going back out on her mission? Was that standard procedure back then, do you know?

I unfortunately don’t know what the procedure was back then, but in the late 90’s, I had to get approval from the First Presidency to serve (I was denied) due to my mental health history.

So, it's at least somewhat conceivable that her having to see a counselor would necessitate GA approval to return.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:04 am 
Sunbeam

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Madison54 wrote:
Yes, I understand that would have had to take place before she originally went out on her mission. But, this was after that, correct? (Or am I off on my timeline?).

She was going back out after having to come home from serving, if I'm understanding this correctly. So, would she have to have that all cleared again?

I just have to believe that if she'd come home because of a mental breakdown, she'd discuss the rape as at least a partial cause for this breakdown. But then, she only believed it was a sexual assault, not a rape at that time. Still serious though, and to not bring it up at all with Monson would seem odd if she was being cleared to go back out on her mission.

Sorry - I misread your original post. I wouldn't be surprised if you left the mission for a mental breakdown (as opposed to something like a broken leg) if they make you re-interview with a GA. But who knows what the actual policy is. If I were a church bureaucrat and I saw that she already needed special permission to go because of the baby, I would have not let her go out with special permission again.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:12 am 
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consiglieri wrote:
If anybody has any additional thoughts on why BYU Police wouldn't want these aspects released to the public, I am all ears.


I don't see the redactions in themselves being significant evidence of some nefarious motive to protect the church or church leaders. I'm not saying that wasn't the case, just that the redactions don't prove it.

I can't comment much on Utah law and how agencies there typically respond to public records requests. But a common approach in CA is to be defensive and to try to avoid producing as much as possible, regardless of the substance of the underlying documents. It's kind of a default reaction, and perhaps even more so in Utah where there appears to be an intermediate appeal process before things get real. Kind of a "let's see what we can get away with and if the requestor knows better" approach. In other words, the way institutions often react even when they have nothing to hide.


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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:48 am 
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consiglieri wrote:
Just got some additional information on those police reports.

[SNIP!]

I am not making this up.

Someone obviously didn't want Bishop's other exploits to be made public. The final two lines could contain Bishop confessing to other inappropriate conduct with the suicidal girl.

The H.G. sure picked a winner in this case.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:53 am 
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I suspect the Holy Ghost that called Joseph Bishop to be MTC President is the same Holy Ghost directing the BYU Police to redact these portions of the police reports.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:56 am 
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I am surprised no one else has commented on the fact that an interview with a GA was (is?) required for those with mental health issues, as if somehow through the spirit, in a single short interview, a GA is able to determine if a missionary's mental health will allow him/her to serve a mission.

There is a huge problem throughout the church in which leadership at all levels think somehow the spirit makes them doctors, marriage counselors, financial advisers, sex education teachers etc, all wrapped up into one person.

"Hey if the spirit will tell me if the Book of Mormon is true, surely it will let me know if this mentally ill sister is capable of serving a mission."

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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:04 pm 
Son of Perdition
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consiglieri wrote:
I suspect the Holy Ghost that called Joseph Bishop to be MTC President is the same Holy Ghost directing the BYU Police to redact these portions of the police reports.


In reality, the Holy Ghost of Mormonism is nothing but the thoughts, wishes, and impressions of any person trying to feel and think their way through any given issue. It's the same for everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:35 pm 
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Madison54 wrote:
Also, someone post this over on the MD&D board!! I don't post there or I would do it. I would just love to see smac go crazy trying to defend this piece of information!

(Sorry to quote myself, but....)

Did someone see my request? Here's a thread started on MD&D about this and as expected smac's response:

Quote:
It's being discussed on MormonDiscussions.

Apparently there is no information about what they talked about, only that Sis. Denson sent a draft of her statement to the BYU police, which purportedly includes information that

A) Sis. Denson was initially sent to Washington D.C. to serve her mission,

B) she suffered some sort of mental breakdown while she was there,

C) she returned to Utah for rehabilitation, which included meeting with a mental health counselor, and also with a General Authority, Thomas S. Monson (presumably in the Quorum of the Twelve at the time, as he was not called into the First Presidency until November 1985), and

D) she was authorized to return to missionary service, but in Wisconsin.

This does not see to be a significant development, as far as it goes. There is no indication that Sis. Denson stated, in her statement to BYU police, that she disclosed to him that Joseph Bishop had abused her. Her federal complaint does not include any allegation that she disclosed any abuse allegations to Elder Monson.

Thanks,

-Smac

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/704 ... after-mtc/


In other words, nothing to see here....move along please and ignore :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: NEW INFO ON REDACTED BYU POLICE REPORTS
PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 2:09 pm 
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Smac is working hard addressing everything except for the real issue.

The real issue, it seems to me, is WHY is it the BYU police are hiding this information in their reports, and WHO is directing them to do so.

These are the real questions to my mind.

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