DCP's "most one-sidedly negative documentary"

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_Goldenbrass
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Re: DCP's "most one-sidedly negative documentary"

Post by _Goldenbrass »

moksha wrote:
cinepro wrote:Interesting. I've never heard of that documentary. Hopefully it will show up on YouTube one day.

Strange that it fails to show up on an internet search. Wonder if some computer program has tamped it down in the search pages? Or maybe it never existed in our dimension and these Peterson and Nibley descriptions were made by their counterparts from an alternate reality.


Well BYU did refuse to show it who knows? Maybe the Strengthening Church Members Committee has purchased Google? It would be more a useful purchase than a Shopping Mall. All Google searches on Mormonism in future will lead to a video on Mormon.org of Donny Osmond smiling while he turns to the camera and says, "Need an answer to a question, you can pray and ask God?"
_Gadianton
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Re: DCP's "most one-sidedly negative documentary"

Post by _Gadianton »

Goldenbrass, that's a pretty rare find, are you familiar with documentaries about the Church generally? (I am not) If so, I'm curious if you are aware of any documentaries made about any aspect of Mormonism that the apologists have spoken highly of. What I'm looking for is a baseline publication that the apologists consider "fair". What constitutes fair in their world?
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Dr Exiled
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Re: DCP's "most one-sidedly negative documentary"

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Maybe consulting the one-sided nonsense on fair Mormon will help solve the riddle? I know the church spends a lot of money trying to influence google searches and the like to keep alternative views to a minimum. So, my guess is that apologists would say that only church manufactured media is the only "fair" media out there. All the rest is biased against them.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_Goldenbrass
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Re: DCP's "most one-sidedly negative documentary"

Post by _Goldenbrass »

Gadianton wrote:Goldenbrass, that's a pretty rare find, are you familiar with documentaries about the Church generally? (I am not) If so, I'm curious if you are aware of any documentaries made about any aspect of Mormonism that the apologists have spoken highly of. What I'm looking for is a baseline publication that the apologists consider "fair". What constitutes fair in their world?


I've always enjoyed looking into documentaries about Mormonism. One example I can think of is the Marriott sponsored PBS documentary "Joseph Smith American Prophet" that aired in 1999 and that was recently updated with new re-enactments and rebroadcast in 2017. You can watch it on youtube here's a playlist with the whole documentary.

The reviews from apologists were extremely positive and viewed the production as extremely fair, for example here's Daniel Peterson's take on that documentary.

Daniel Peterson wrote:With the recent completion of the Lee Groberg/Mark Goodman film “Joseph Smith, American Prophet” (a virtually total revision of a similarly titled 1999 effort), Latter-day Saint filmmaking takes a significant step toward beginning to meet President Kimball’s challenge. Featuring interviews with both LDS and non-LDS scholars as well as LDS Church leaders, “American Prophet” — which will begin to appear on PBS television stations in October — adopts a balanced approach to its subject. But Joseph emerges impressive nonetheless.


The reviews from others weren't so favorable. Scott Pierce's review at the Salt Lake Tribune has these choice quotes.

Scott Pierce wrote:It’s no surprise that “Joseph Smith: American Prophet” is airing Sunday at 2 p.m. on KBYU-Ch. 11. It’s somewhat surprising that it’s also airing on WETA in Washington, D.C. — one of PBS’ flagship stations — and a couple dozen other PBS stations across the country.

Make no mistake. Most of this production plays like something the Sunday School teacher at the LDS ward down the street might show to his/her class.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Yes, the original version aired on PBS stations in 1999. But it seems somewhat unusual that what feels like a missionary tool for the LDS Church is airing on some PBS stations in 2017, labeled as a documentary. Because this is not a balanced film.


Scott Pierce wrote:This is about as close as any of them comes to criticism: “Did Joseph Smith believe that he had seen a vision? Of course he believed it,” says author Richard T. Hughes (“Myths America Lives By,” “The American Quest for the Primitive Church”). “I mean, Joseph was severely persecuted and harassed for making that claim. He would’ve had to have been nuts to make that claim and stick with it if he didn’t really believe that he had had that vision.”


So Pierce's main issue was the way it was being called a documentary when it quite clearly does not present anything but a Sunday School version of Church history, even if it does have non-Mormon commentators.

Richard Leiby writing for the Washington Post in 1999 was much more scathing of the "documentary".

Richard Leiby wrote:An unschooled religious zealot anoints himself king, takes as many wives as he wants and forms an army to protect his holy commune. He wields cultlike control over his followers. The authorities crack down: He's killed and mourned as a martyr.

It's the story of a tailor named John of Leyden, who espoused the heretical teachings of Anabaptism in Germany in the 1500s. It's also the story of Waco's David Koresh, who met his fiery end in 1993. But mainly it's the story of Joesph Smith, a handsome country lad with an oversize ego who established one of America's most successful new religions in the 1830s.

Like others in history, Smith brewed God, sex and politics into a fatal mix, but his church prospered. The somewhat sanitized documentary "American Prophet: The Story of Joseph Smith" attempts to explain why.

Sonorously narrated by Gregory Peck, "American Prophet" sketches a fascinating profile but it veers into hagiography. (The film was funded by the J. Willard and Alice S. Marriott Foundation, set up by the late Mormon hotel magnate.) We learn much about the persecution of Smith's sect, but little about its actual teachings. We are told how deeply Smith loved his wife, Emma, and how pure of heart he was--but we're not informed that he had, by some accounts, more than 30 wives while flatly denying he was a polygamist. (The program does acknowledge that he had "more than one" wife.)

The film also notes that Smith was frequently betrayed by those who once followed him; they even joined the anti-Mormon mobs that hunted him down. But we are left with little understanding of what, exactly, spurred their intense animosity for "Brother Joseph."


Richard Leiby wrote:The prophet established the holy city of Nauvoo, Ill., which he ruled as mayor, chief justice and lieutenant general of the Nauvoo Legion, his own militia. He started a newspaper and in 1844 announced his candidacy for U.S. president, "a Western man with American principles."

But by merging church and state, Smith had breached a precious democratic principle. He also proved intolerant of dissent. When local apostates printed a newspaper calling Smith a polygamous Caligula who violated female followers--a charge not mentioned in the film--the prophet's army smashed and burned the presses. He declared martial law.

This incident provided the final spark that led to his demise at age 39. He and his brother, Hyrum, were summarily executed after they turned themselves in to face arrest warrants for inciting riot.

It's an edifying two hours, but the saga of Smith's life could have been far more gripping than this reverently rendered version. Smith saw himself and his flock as vital actors in a grand drama staged by the Almighty. In a sermon at Nauvoo, he claimed to have a more solid following than Christ himself--and to Hell with the dissenters.

"In all these affidavits, indictments, it is all of the Devil--all corruption. Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All Hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had."

That quote speaks volumes about the man, but unfortunately you won't find it in "American Prophet."


I think by "fair" and "balanced" what they are actually looking for are documentaries that promote Mormonism.
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Re: DCP's "most one-sidedly negative documentary"

Post by _Goldenbrass »

Exiled wrote:Maybe consulting the one-sided nonsense on fair Mormon will help solve the riddle? I know the church spends a lot of money trying to influence google searches and the like to keep alternative views to a minimum. So, my guess is that apologists would say that only church manufactured media is the only "fair" media out there. All the rest is biased against them.


From the examples that I've seen you're completely right Exiled.
_Gadianton
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Re: DCP's "most one-sidedly negative documentary"

Post by _Gadianton »

Thank you for the detailed explanation Goldenbrass. That first quote was hilarious. It was fair and balanced because it had non-lds weigh in, but somehow Joseph Smith beat the odds and emerged impressive. What a triumph of Joseph over the extraordinary high bar the "lds filmmakers" held up for him.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Goldenbrass
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Re: DCP's "most one-sidedly negative documentary"

Post by _Goldenbrass »

Gadianton wrote:Thank you for the detailed explanation Goldenbrass. That first quote was hilarious. It was fair and balanced because it had non-lds weigh in, but somehow Joseph Smith beat the odds and emerged impressive. What a triumph of Joseph over the extraordinary high bar the "LDS filmmakers" held up for him.


Praise to the man! He's proving that he's greater than Jesus even after his death while mingling with Gods. I had a good laugh at that quote myself.
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