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 Post subject: Hiding behind outside legal counsel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:57 am 
God

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:01 am
Posts: 7973
A point raised by consiglieri in his second podcast on the Joseph Bishop sex abuse case bears specific highlight and discussion.

The Church statement reads:
Quote:
As we've said in both statements, our work to address this matter has included the work of outside legal counsel to interview and investigate the facts and allegations. This requires access to membership information. During this process, it is customary and acceptable for outside counsel to correspond with the attorneys representing other parties, including sharing information that may support or refute their claims.
But it's also important to not confuse the legal and ecclesiastical lines. Attorneys are doing the legal work, and that has contributed substantially to what we understand about this case. But ecclesiastical decisions about Church members remain in the hands of local leaders, whose responsibility it is to determine how to minister to, discipline and care for the members in their stewardship.

http://kutv.com/news/local/exclusive-do ... ex-scandal

Hiding behind outside legal counsel

Eric Hawkins, on behalf of the Church, has made several statements to attempt to absolve the Church of any blame for the behaviour of its lawyer, David Jordan. He has tried to suggest that the Church is involved only in ecclesiastical matters, leaving the lawyers to do the lawyering. He is trying to separate the Church from being associated with the hit-piece dossier compiled by David Jordan (who was given access to the victims Church records and LDS adoption services records) as a mechanism for re-abusing the victim into dropping the case.

What the Church lawyers are attempting as a defence is basically - “Yeah we know Bishop abused her, but look at her track record, she either had it coming or she’s maybe not telling the truth and anyways, she’s a bad person (even though we know she is wink wink). And if anyone else out there has been abused by a Church leader, if you come forward we will do this to you too.”

Back to my point. David Jordan is an agent of the Church, he is working on its behalf, he is being employed to do its bidding. There is NO separation between lawyer and Church when one is acting on behalf of the other. Let me prove my point by asking a couple of questions.

Has the Church, via Hawkins, expressed that it thinks what David Jordan has done is wrong?
Has the Church replaced David Jordan?
Has the Church asked David Jordan to apologise for his behaviour?
Has the Church in anyway expressed a negative opinion towards the work David Jordan has done?
Has it apologised for giving access to personal membership records?

No.

So the Church actually gives tacit approval to the lawyers actions, and has facilitated them, fully. The appeal to “outside legal counsel’ needs to be seen for the nefarious subterfuge that it is.

_________________
Joseph Smith proposed to Fanny in the same way Trump proposed to Stormy Daniels.
(Fence Sitter, Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:20pm)


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 Post subject: Re: Hiding behind outside legal counsel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:06 pm 
God

Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:56 pm
Posts: 1527
Of course the church's heavy handedness is normal SOP.

The key question is to members "do you Know what all the info is in your file and how the hell can the church access adoption info or police records or your FICO score or your BYU transcripts and honor violations or allegations- like when u got ticketed for facial hair on campus?

Yep big brother church has had it's eye on you and info is in your file- that BS about not keeping or burning info is just a lie- and the Morg is just fine with lying about it.

k


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 Post subject: Re: Hiding behind outside legal counsel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:23 pm 
God
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Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:49 am
Posts: 8165
Location: Somewhere between bemused and curious.
The whole way the Bishop/Denton affair is being handled is really ironic when you consider the new name for Home & Visiting Teaching is.....

"ministering".

The financial welfare of the church is more important than the spiritual welfare of its members.

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"The lives we lead now are not dress rehearsals, they are the only performance we have. Therefore what matters is what we have here, the people we know and and love and the good we can do for the world"
Sean Carroll


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 Post subject: Re: Hiding behind outside legal counsel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:45 pm 
Star A

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:03 am
Posts: 95
I listened to Consiglieri's second RFM podcast on this issue and he really put all of the pieces together. He commented on how he found it strange that they kept referring to their "outside legal counsel" in the first podcast and in the second he makes a convincing case for why they did that.

Whether David Jordan meant for his smear job to be used in the way it was is irrelevant, it clearly set the tone for the initial announcements by the Church's PR people and for Greg Bishop. Bishop should have never been given private confidential records that only the Church held, like disciplinary records and adoption records.

It's interesting that the law firm that David Jordan represents Stoel Rives has given substantial amounts to YWCA Utah that provides legal assistance to sexual assault survivors among others. Kelsey Koziar has raised $2000 for the YWCA Utah this year, and Lauren Shurman has been on the "governance committee for the YWCA of Utah and have served on the board of directors for the YWCA of Salt Lake City" since that's where her interest in law began. It's a noble cause to give time and energy to, but I wonder if any Stoel Rives employees have found themselves in the awkward position of volunteering for YWCA only to have someone enter their office with a threatening letter from David Jordan representing the LDS Church? I wonder how they feel about David Jordan releasing a rape and sexual assault survivor's Church records to publicly smear her?


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 Post subject: Re: Hiding behind outside legal counsel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:44 pm 
God
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The Church is presenting the appearance of an organization which would bring thermonuclear ordinance to a gunfight.

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