Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:I don't understand why John Dehlin needs to respond publicly to either his personal indiscretions or allegations against him by those who themselves admit to being adulterers. If this is a money thing then Rosebud or whomever else feels slighted could go after the foundation I suppose. I think, at best, you get a pyrrhic victory out of this, John Dehlin has to get an honest job again, and Rosebud keeps failing at life.
I'm kind of in Jersey Girl's camp on this one. I think homegirl has a serious case of Gone Girl going on and feels powerful when people are talking about her and she gets John Dehlin to rent her some space in his head. For someone who has a Ph.D. in whatever, she sure is acting like a ____ ing baby. Get over it. Move on. Get a job. Take up knitting. Adopt a dog. Ya done ____ ed up and trying to take a man down, a man who is far superior at organizing and effectuating a vision than you'll ever be, is just pathetic.
- Doc
I don't see the need to pick "a camp." What's important to me is a clear criteria for what constitutes abuse of power. This doesn't require a judgement for or against either Dehlin or Rosebud.
I don't see this situation as a dispute between two people. I haven't seen John since 2012 and although it looks like I have a personal axe to grind, my actions have been related to self-protection and the protection of my family. This issue is so much bigger than John and me.
I don't know how many thousands of people are affected by the hypocrisy. It's not about John and me. Who cares? That would be a silly and insignificant tussle and John himself is an insignificant person in my life. Contact with him is traumatic for me because of how much he has hurt me, but I don't have contact with him personally anymore. The most disturbing John moments for me are times I catch wind of his women's activism because of its extreme hypocrisy.
What is significant is the full matter and the number of people it affects, not any personal dispute. What John did to me was within the context of him exposing the church for improper handling of sensitive situations. His own organization is guilty of the same. He is guilty of the same. That affects thousands and thousands of people and it's part of history whether I like it or not. If that's the way it is, I would like a voice, too, even if it is very quiet in comparison to John's.
for what it's worth, I don't think John needs to respond publicly. He's already responded publicly over and over again. Why do it more? It's his publicity that got us here. He's not ever going to take responsibility and make amends. He's had thousands of opportunities to do that and he hasn't taken any of them.
And what else can he do and say? Think of all the legal papers that have gone back and forth. Can he just say I'm making this up with the long record? Is he going to sue his own employee while he promotes the wrongs done to other women? How would the discoveries period of a lawsuit ever be complete with the thousands upon thousands of emails that have been exchanged regarding this matter at this point? How would the media respond?
Right now, the way I see it, just keeping a record that also includes my voice is more important. And yes, the Open Stories Foundation should have done something to resolve all this years ago, but John won't allow that to happen and everybody is more committed to exposing the church than confronting their own leader.
The publicity status quo isn't all that bad. I keep records and have my voice John does his crusade thing. The church falls. Maybe people will talk about "Rosebud" to promote the fact that there is more going on here that believing Mormons vs. ex Mormons. It's not us vs. them. It would be nice to see the real issues get addressed.
Life is often messier than we were taught in primary.
Maybe someday the Open Stories Foundation will take responsibility for their actions. Who knows. John himself isn't ever going to do that sincerely.
And a Q for the Open Stories Foundation (who allegedly have all signed confidentiality agreements), since I've just seen John's own statement that he should be fired if a credible account of sexual harassment is ever made, should I just release the letter from an attorney asking me to resign before the board was informed? How about the termination letter? The blank confidentiality agreements? You should have access to all of this in your records. It's your responsibility to discipline. This is your burden, not mine.
It's very hard to understand how so many good people keep following him and allowing him to get away with so much.
Unless you produce a W-2 or 1099 I don't believe you actually worked for them.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
Wait.... I did think of one reason why John isn't guilty.
In the State of Utah, sexual harassment doesn't exist unless there are 15 employees. John lived in Utah.
In the State of New Hampshire, sexual harassment doesn't exist unless there are 6 employees. I lived in New Hampshire.
In Massachusetts, it only takes 2, so if I had been living a few miles further south at the time, John would have been guilty. But since I wasn't, he's isn't.
See.... it's easy. The church PR department would probably agree because they know the legal system discovers the truth of all matters.
Produce a W-2 or 1099. I'm declaring Rosebud was never an employee of John Dehlin or Open Stories Foundation. She's a liar.
- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
I stay out of John Dehlin threads. I didn't trade one cult of personality for another. Didn't exchange Joseph Smith for John Dehlin. Haven't listened to a single John Dehlin podcast, never went to any of his conferences, just don't care. But this Rosebud John Dehlin semi annual drama is just unproductive popcorn fodder. If she has any real beef, file a civil suit if you lack grounds for a judicial one. The innuendos and John Dehlin defence. Meh.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality. ~Bill Hamblin
SteelHead wrote:I stay out of John Dehlin threads. I didn't trade one cult of personality for another. Didn't exchange Joseph Smith for John Dehlin. Haven't listened to a single John Dehlin podcast, never went to any of his conferences, just don't care. But this Rosebud John Dehlin semi annual drama is just unproductive popcorn fodder. If she has any real beef, file a civil suit if you lack grounds for a judicial one. The innuendos and John Dehlin defence. Meh.
+ a lot!
I need a smilie that yawns.
a.k.a. Pokatatorjoined Oct 26, 2006 and permanently banned from MAD Nov 6, 2006
"Stop being such a damned coward and use your real name to own your position."
"That's what he gets for posting in his own name."
2 different threads same day 2 hours apart Yohoo Bat 12/1/2015