Satan makes people gay says President Nelson

[_Simon Southerton]

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/02 ... llennials/

Nelson is plainly and demonstrably wrong. Science has clearly shown that sexual orientation is not a choice. It is almost solely determined by biological factors (genetic and epigenetic) and once set is virtually impossible to change.

Rather than act to reduce youth suicide the Mormon prophet has chosen to contribute to the skyrocketing LGBTQ suicide epidemic sweeping Utah.

Nelson's ignorant comments are utterly irresponsible, bordering on criminal.

[_DrW]

You are absolutely right, Simon. And the reality is that a rapidly growing percentage of younger Church members, especially those who have attended college, recognize such comments as borderline criminal.

The future of the LDS Church is bleak indeed as long as its top leadership insists on preaching what are clearly lies and cruel nonsense.

[_Simon Southerton]

The future of the LDS Church is bleak indeed as long as its top leadership insists on preaching what are clearly lies and cruel nonsense.

I know active members of stake presidencies prepared to admit they think the Nov policy (revelation) is wrong.

Who in their right mind would want to be steering this ship? If they keep the policy they bleed the more enlightened and compassionate members in growing numbers. If they ditch it they start bleeding the ignorant (masses) homophobes. Ugly options.

[_Aristotle Smith]

Not a fan of Nelson or the LDS church. However the linked article says nothing about sex, sexual orientation, or homosexuality. Unless you are taking

"So, what does the adversary do?” Nelson asked. “He attacks us through our appetites. He tempts us to eat things we should not eat, to drink things we should not drink, and to love as we should not love.”

as some sort of dog whistle for Mormons to secretly read in homosexuality.

The problem is that defining sin as disordered love has a pretty long pedigree, at least as far as Dante in the 13th/14th century. Adultery just is love of the wrong person. Gluttony just is love of too much food, etc. While I doubt Nelson is toting around Inferno and quoting it in spirit to the Mormon masses, it's not exactly a new or innovative thought.

And yes, the November policy is incredibly stupid and evil.

[_Lemmie]

Not a fan of Nelson or the LDS church. However the linked article says nothing about sex, sexual orientation, or homosexuality. Unless you are taking

"So, what does the adversary do?” Nelson asked. “He attacks us through our appetites. He tempts us to eat things we should not eat, to drink things we should not drink, and to love as we should not love.”

as some sort of dog whistle for Mormons to secretly read in homosexuality.

Agreed, but the commenters seem pretty comfortable in assuming exactly that. The top comment:

"know who you really are" ......unless you're gay. Then, forget who you really are and live a false life unless you are happy living a life void of the intimacy of a partner and void of having your kids in your life.

This one is just heartbreaking:

What a joke! I'm sick an tired of being respectful, when old men, who haven't even tried to understand, condemn others.

MISTER Nelson, I did not choose to be exclusively attracted to males. It was always just this way. Before I had even reached your "age of accountability" I was aware of the way I felt about other boys my age.

As I got older, I tried, and tried, and cried as I begged, in prayer, for God to "fix me." I served an honorable two-year mission, hoping that God would turn my head for my sacrifice.

After I got home, I still felt exactly the same as ever about my sexuality. It was then that I realized that I'd had my answer all along:

There's nothing wrong with me. I'm not in need of redemption. I'm a moral, kind person who works hard to love others, especially my partner of TEN YEARS.

Let's make a deal - You stay out of my bedroom, and I'll stay out of your silly, man-made church.

and is this the latest groupspeak to justify bishops' interviews-- blame parents?

...if your parents authorized those questions, it is "acceptable."

since when did parents "authorize" questions in a bishops interview of a child?

[_Polygamy-Porter]

[_I have a question]

So we should all get sealed to a second wife and prepare ourselves for eternal polygamy?

Russell is being intentionally mealy mouthed. Why not speak plainly so the Church’s young people know exactly what he means?

[_The Dude]

It is almost solely determined by biological factors (genetic and epigenetic)

Are we sure of this? I haven't been following the literature in this area but I see claims of genes/epigenetic causes more and more frequently these days. It has always been plausible, to me, but is there a specific discovery to exemplify this claim (which I am not aware of), or are people just feeling more confident saying it because they see other people saying it?

[Guest]

It is almost solely determined by biological factors (genetic and epigenetic)

Are we sure of this? I haven't been following the literature in this area but I see claims of genes/epigenetic causes more and more frequently these days. It has always been plausible, to me, but is there a specific discovery to exemplify this claim (which I am not aware of), or are people just feeling more confident saying it because they see other people saying it?

As The Dude surely knows, once one includes epigenetics in a list of biological factors determining same sex attraction, the chances of being wrong drop dramatically. This is because epigenetic (usually reversible) alteration of DNA (by methylation*, for example) can be influenced by the environment, and thus plays an important role in adaptation.

As described with respect to inherited tendency to obesity in a thread entitled "Weight issues faced by Church members due to the WoW", the DNA of sperm from obese men show increased methylation. While these markers are normally substantially reduced or eliminated as the germ cells develop, or in early fetal development, incomplete erasure can result in inheritance of a tendency toward obesity. This is fairly well studied. References were provided in that thread. Same goes for type 2 diabetes. Again, fairly well studied.

One theory for epigenetic inheritance of same sex attraction (which does tend to run in families, by the way) has to do with the sensitivity to androgens in the fetus, which is influenced by a number of proteins. Epigenetic effects on the relative rates of production among these proteins could alter sensitivity to the androgens that help control sexual differentiation.

As a specific example, epigenetic markers for female development that were not erased during germ cell development in the ovaries of the mother could be passed down to male offspring, resulting in an attraction to men later in life. Development of attraction for females could result from analogous epigenetic markers being passed to female offspring from the father.
_______________________

*Very simply put: tacking a methyl group onto DNA alters the chromatin structure and thus the rate at which the amino acid that is coded for at the methylated site is synthesized. Since proteins are long strings of amino acids, methylation of DNA can affect the rate of production of specific proteins.
______________________

ETA: This kind of stuff is now taught in AP Biology in High School (even in Utah - see below). You would think that the God-ordained leader of a Church claiming 15 million members (or at least one of his counselors or a senior apostle) would at least take the time to learn what their granddaughters in High School (in Bountiful at least) already know about this matter, now so critical to the membership of the Church they are is supposed to be leading.
______________

Psychology Teacher Network

"Genetics and epigenetics in the psychology classroom: How to teach what your textbook doesn’t: An update on teaching about genetics and epigenetics including resources for lecture and hands-on activities"

By Jessica Habashi, PhD, Utah State University Brigham City Regional Campus and Kristin H. Whitlock, MEd, Viewmont High School, Bountiful, Utah

[_Simon Southerton]

It is almost solely determined by biological factors (genetic and epigenetic)

Are we sure of this? I haven't been following the literature in this area but I see claims of genes/epigenetic causes more and more frequently these days. It has always been plausible, to me, but is there a specific discovery to exemplify this claim (which I am not aware of), or are people just feeling more confident saying it because they see other people saying it?

DrW clearly knows more than me. I've not been following the literature closely either. I'm making the assumption that Greg Prince has, however, as he gave a talk on it last year. Its the best thing I've read on Mormonism and homosexuality. He doesn't directly reference the scientific literature, but he gives an excellent laymans overview which you can access at this link to the pdf.

https://thc.utah.edu/lectures-programs/ ... tected.pdf

From my experience working in trees, variation in most commercial traits is complex and controlled by variation in hundreds of genes. I would expect the genetics of sexual attraction to be equally complex. When you add a layer of epigenetic variation on top of hundreds of genes it all gets very challenging to tease apart. Scientists have only just started looking at epigenetic variation, so it will be a while before the picture starts to become clearer. But there is little doubt epigenetics plays a significant role.