New RFM Episode--Dumbing Down Revelation

[_Philo Sofee]

Henry Eyring
A youth asks how to pray and have a conversation with God, and Eyring says "Be modest in your expectations...he'd love to have a conversation with you but remember he is god...I worry when people speak to him in too familiar of a way...the idea of having a conversation where you're chatting is a lofty goal"

Yeah, why not? God is certainly modest in answering any actual and real heart felt prayers where real help and miracle is needed, after all. How many millions of seriously ***needing*** and loving and desperate mothers have prayed for relief and help from God for their suffering and dying starving child, through no fault of its own, only to have to bury them because the heavenly parent did nothing to answer their prayers or alleviate the situations where no more useless suffering can occur? Modest indeed. I have no need for modesty because I already know the answers won't come. Ask and ye shall receive is the most openly read unfulfilled lie in all of print.

[_Shulem]

My patriarchal blessing (which I no longer have) told me that answers would come to my prayers through miraculous means. "It may come in a dream or a vision or a voice, all of us on the earth have this right and priviledge".

Interestingly enough I did have a visitation while serving my mission in England. I can't say I was making it up because my companion told me the next morning while tracting, "Did you know we had a visitation last night?" Well, I replied, "Yes we did".

That night I was laying in the lower bunk half asleep on my back or side with my eyes closed, but the room filled with a bright and warming light. I think the room must have been at least as light as day but I did not open my eyes. I was simply in a state of complete rest with my eyes closed, nearly lucid dreaming it seemed but awake. I could see in my mind's eyes two persons of light standing in the room close to the bed. They felt wonderful and their presences was so sweet, kind of like sugar or honey it was so sweet. I could just feel loving dripping all over.

Anyway, my companion the next day told me he actually saw the persons. I seem to recall he said one of them had a sword at the side and they were dressed in priesthood like robes or something like that. I guess he saw what he wanted or needed to see. I only saw their countenance and outlines in my mind's eye's but could feel their actual presence. It was pretty cool, if you ask me. It just goes to show that there are are intelligent beings that are aware of us on earth and like to interact with us.

I can't deny that happened but everything about it is debatable.

[_consiglieri]

Wow, Shulem!

That is a really neat experience you had. I appreciate your willingness to share it publicly.

[_RockSlider]

I assume part of the dummy down is based on if one has high expectations of dreams/visions/visitations then Denver Snuffer is your man, the LDS Church can no longer provide.

[_mentalgymnast]

I hope in the future to delve more into this aspect of my experience, and try as best I can to explain how it is a Mormon like I was 40-years ago has become the Mormon I am today.

It has been a long and sometimes difficult experience, most of it happening before the advent of the Internet.

So the difficult part was before the advent of the internet? It seems like it would be the other way around. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're saying.

I do think that since the early nineties with the advent of online groups and information that there has probably also been a direct correlation between that and the amount of time/effort that people have put into studying the scriptures, praying, and seeking the Spirit. Nothing I can prove, granted...but I know that my own experience justifies making this statement. The internet and all the conflicting and sometimes distorted information concerning the church is a real distraction from spending that same time with the basics. Prayer, reading scriptures, and doing those things that bring the Spirit into our lives.

Personally, I've had to try and find a balance...and if I see that I'm becoming unbalanced in spending too much time (it happened more in the past than it does nowadays) reading/exploring all the stuff online...I try to break off and spend at least equal time studying the words of the prophets/scriptures and invest a bit more energy in connecting with God.

It's not always easy to do. The distractions seem to ALWAYS be there.

Regards,
MG

[_mentalgymnast]

Wow, Shulem!

That is a really neat experience you had. I appreciate your willingness to share it publicly.

That is an interesting experience. It's a lot more than I've ever experienced in that regard. If it's true that where much is given, much is expected I guess I'm down a ways on the totem pole at this point. I've always had to move through life, at least up to this point, on a wing and a prayer. Not too many miraculous or overwhelming visual (mind or eye) events that I would refer back to as being overwhelmingly spiritual in an undeniable sense. So to read Shulem's experience, along with his companion, is quite the thing. I wonder how he looks back on it at this point.

Regards,
MG

[_Shulem]

So to read Shulem's experience, along with his companion, is quite the thing. I wonder how he looks back on it at this point.

We were visited by beings not of this physical world. No question about that. Who or what they are I don't know. We supposed they were just angels who came through the veil to bless us lowly missionaries. All that, of course, seemed quite reasonable at the time.

Looking back, I think this world is vastly inhabited by beings that are invisible to us and we live in our own realm and they live in their realm. Sometimes on occasion, for whatever reason the two worlds come together albeit briefly and for specific reasons.

Yes, I happen to think there is probably some kind of afterlife. We are beings and probably live on in some kind of state. I reject the resurrection, though, that's silly religious nonsense. I reject Christ's atonement as barbaric sacrificial cultish doctrine.

Also, I reject the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3, as you well know. I believe Joseph Smith had Reuben Hedlock remove the original snout in which he faithfully copied from the papyrus. If a jackal has an eye and an ear he needs his snout too. I'm sure you get the point. Get over there on the other thread and vote.

[_Lemmie]

I hope in the future to delve more into this aspect of my experience, and try as best I can to explain how it is a Mormon like I was 40-years ago has become the Mormon I am today.

It has been a long and sometimes difficult experience, most of it happening before the advent of the Internet.

So the difficult part was before the advent of the internet? It seems like it would be the other way around. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you're saying.

Apparently so! He said "most of it" before the internet, NOT the "difficult" part before the internet.

It is quite fascinating that the rest of your post is based on the assumption of such an obvious error, almost as though you misread consiglieri on purpose, just so that you could lecture on "distractions." That would be quite disingenuous, wouldn't it?

...Personally, I've had to try and find a balance...and if I see that I'm becoming unbalanced in spending too much time (it happened more in the past than it does nowadays) reading/exploring all the stuff online...I try to break off and spend at least equal time studying the words of the prophets/scriptures and invest a bit more energy in connecting with God.

It's not always easy to do. The distractions seem to ALWAYS be there.

Yes, facts are such a distraction.......


Anyway, back to the topic...

Also, I reject the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3, as you well know. I believe Joseph Smith had Reuben Hedlock remove the original snout in which he faithfully copied from the papyrus. If a jackal has an eye and an ear he needs his snout too. I'm sure you get the point. Get over there on the other thread and vote.

Vote!!!

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

My patriarchal blessing (which I no longer have) told me that answers would come to my prayers through miraculous means. "It may come in a dream or a vision or a voice, all of us on the earth have this right and priviledge".

Interestingly enough I did have a visitation while serving my mission in England. I can't say I was making it up because my companion told me the next morning while tracting, "Did you know we had a visitation last night?" Well, I replied, "Yes we did".

That night I was laying in the lower bunk half asleep on my back or side with my eyes closed, but the room filled with a bright and warming light. I think the room must have been at least as light as day but I did not open my eyes. I was simply in a state of complete rest with my eyes closed, nearly lucid dreaming it seemed but awake. I could see in my mind's eyes two persons of light standing in the room close to the bed. They felt wonderful and their presences was so sweet, kind of like sugar or honey it was so sweet. I could just feel loving dripping all over.

Anyway, my companion the next day told me he actually saw the persons. I seem to recall he said one of them had a sword at the side and they were dressed in priesthood like robes or something like that. I guess he saw what he wanted or needed to see. I only saw their countenance and outlines in my mind's eye's but could feel their actual presence. It was pretty cool, if you ask me. It just goes to show that there are are intelligent beings that are aware of us on earth and like to interact with us.

I can't deny that happened but everything about it is debatable.

That's really interesting, Shulem. I had a sleep paralysis 'attack', very similar to Joseph Smith, the night before I went through the temple. This describes exactly what I experienced:

https://thedreamwell.com/2008/09/17/sle ... nightmare/

Even though I don't believe in woo* it was an interesting moment in my life. I think I had one other episode of sleep paralysis when I was in my 20's. So. Who knows.

*I like to indulge is 'woo pet theories', but they're just an exercise in science fiction. I'm thoroughly grounded in pragmatism even though I'm open to the idea of advanced this and that may exist, but for all intents and purposes it's meaningless to us.

- Doc

[_Maksutov]

Doc, sleep paralysis and hypnogogic/hypnopompic hallucinations are probably the source of alien abduction experiences as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/07/06/scien ... lysis.html

From the article:

Called sleep paralysis, this disorder -- the result of a disconnect between brain and body as a person is on the fringe of sleep -- is turning out to be increasingly common, affecting nearly half of all people at least once. Moreover, a growing number of scholars believe that sleep paralysis may help explain many ancient reports of attacks by witches and modern claims of abduction by space aliens.

''I think it can explain claims of witchcraft and alien abduction,'' said Kazuhiko Fukuda, a psychologist at Fukushima University in Japan and a leading expert on sleep paralysis. Research in Japan has had a headstart because sleep paralysis is well-known to most Japanese, who call it kanashibari, while it is little-known and less studied in the West.