Church with a rock band

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_Themis
_Emeritus
Posts: 13426
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Church with a rock band

Post by _Themis »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Themis wrote:...I have lived within the Mormon bubble for decades...


Well, I guess that makes you as knowledgeable and expert as those of us that have been in the Mormon bubble for many decades...and are still active/believing. :wink:

Regards,
MG


Anytime you want to try and articulate how you know any greater knowledge truth is really true many like myself will listen. I asked many times, so I think I may be a little open to the possibility.
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_mentalgymnast
_Emeritus
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Re: Church with a rock band

Post by _mentalgymnast »

Themis wrote:
Anytime you want to try and articulate how you know any greater knowledge truth is really true many like myself will listen. I asked many times, so I think I may be a little open to the possibility.


I'm sure that your decades of living and/or practicing within the faith contained in the "Mormon bubble" have given you a certain perspective on the teachings of the LDS Church. I didn't mean to discount that fact. What I am saying is that I believe there is something to the notion of 'enduring in faith' to the end. Knowledge is gained line upon line and precept upon precept. If we cut off that 'supply line' I think that we are less likely to receive and understand spiritual things. You maintain that spiritual things should be readily explained and/or given/handed to others...along with the 'evidence' to show that these spiritual experiences are 'true' in some kind of physical sense that can be seen and/or measured.

I think that you and I both know that this isn't possible.

Faith, testimony, belief, is based upon knowledge/experience that one can't see but which one has faith is true. You say it's blind faith, I say it's not. You ask for evidence. I find it difficult to articulate in a tiny little capsule...without writing a book...why my faith is meaningful and/or makes sense to me in the wide realm of possibilities of positions in regards to belief and/or unbelief. We will always be left at an impasse.

Right?

And life goes on...

Regards,
MG
_Servant
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:48 am

Re: Church with a rock band

Post by _Servant »

zeezrom wrote:Last night, I went to a church that has a rock band. This was a first for me as the only churches I've ever been to are Mormon (obviously), Catholic, Methodist, and Greek Orthodox. Well, this turned out to be a memorable experience. During their songs, I just wanted to cry. It wasn't a spiritual experience because I don't believe in God or the gods but it was a very moving experience because of how welcoming they seemed. They didn't care about how I dressed, whether I'll show up next week, or if I am worthy. I felt no judgment at all from them. Suddenly i was hit with this realization that I could have grown up this way. As a teenager, I could have lived a life without feeling like I would go to hell where Hitler lives. I would have been okay. They would have taught me to focus on love instead of fear. They would have taught me to help people that are in need because it's what makes us happy not because it wins points with God. I could have learned love but I didn't. I learned fear instead.

The LDS church does more damage to this world than good. I hope the organization gets destroyed someday. I really do.



You sure are right. Calvary Chapels are just as you describe.
_Themis
_Emeritus
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 pm

Re: Church with a rock band

Post by _Themis »

mentalgymnast wrote:Knowledge is gained line upon line and precept upon precept. If we cut off that 'supply line' I think that we are less likely to receive and understand spiritual things.


It's hard to lose something we already understand.

You maintain that spiritual things should be readily explained and/or given/handed to others...along with the 'evidence' to show that these spiritual experiences are 'true' in some kind of physical sense that can be seen and/or measured.

I think that you and I both know that this isn't possible.


So why does the church make the effort in it's publication's? You avoid it because you know it does not constitute good evidence for the person experiencing the spiritual/sensory experience. You probably don't avoid it if you think you are talking to a believer who will not ask hard questions.

Faith, testimony, belief, is based upon knowledge/experience that one can't see but which one has faith is true. You say it's blind faith, I say it's not. You ask for evidence. I find it difficult to articulate in a tiny little capsule...without writing a book...why my faith is meaningful and/or makes sense to me in the wide realm of possibilities of positions in regards to belief and/or unbelief. We will always be left at an impasse.


It's blind faith only because it does not provide good evidence even to the one experiencing it that beliefs like the Book of Mormon is true or God exists. This is why you cannot articulate why you think it is good evidence. If one pray's and gets an amazing sensory experience from it, how is this good evidence the Book of Mormon is true? Could someone also get the same experience from reading some Scientology book, or maybe some good fantasy book? When I say sensory I don't mean just things like light entering you eye creating and image in your Brain. Your brain is capable of doing that without any real light, but I would still say you had a sensory experience. Emotions may not come from your ability to see, hear, touch, taste or smell but it is still a sensory experience. All experience /observation is some kind of sensory experience.

I don't conclude the Book of Mormon is fiction because of a lack of good evidence it is true. The first vital step was to recognize my spiritual experiences did not constituent good evidence it was true, but I still believed. Only after that and seeing all the evidence showing it was made up could I conclude it was not true. The spiritual experience typical of most members is highly subjective which makes it poor evidence for beliefs like the Book of Mormon is true. Physical evidence we have is far more objective making it good evidence. The problem is the physical evidence is usually not sexy and doesn't generate much emotion. The spiritual experience though tends to be highly emotional allowing one to ignore the rational part of their brain when generating their interpretations. Emotions are really good at maintaining interpretations even if they are really poor.
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_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Re: Church with a rock band

Post by _moksha »

Mittens wrote:Doesn't the praise of Israel sound like todays rock band that praises Jehovah ?

Psalm 150
3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.

4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.

Sounds more like Pentecostals bringing their band instruments with them to make "a joyous noise unto the Lord".

I've only heard two church rock band performances and I did not like either of them. Of course, I do like church music. I loved the Wesley Bell Ringers and I thought the Girl's Choir at the Cathedral of the Madeleine sounded like angels. That LDS piano player from the Utah Symphony whom First Unitarian hired to perform on Sundays was pretty good too.

What I would really love would be to hear Hie to Kolob with guitar, banjo, and Irish drums played at my ward some Sunday. That would be a real treat.

From Galilee Bay up to NHM Quay and
From Nauvoo to Zarahemla Town,
No man knows my history more, man
Than I met in the Hie to Kolob.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Ceeboo
_Emeritus
Posts: 7625
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:58 am

Re: Church with a rock band

Post by _Ceeboo »

Hey Zee! :smile:

If you thought a church with a band was cool - you should see what happens when a band has a church!

https://youtu.be/0_CksCHnooM

:smile:


Peace,
Ceeboo
_zeezrom
_Emeritus
Posts: 11938
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:57 pm

Re: Church with a rock band

Post by _zeezrom »

Jersey Girl wrote:And it would have been perfectly okay had you done so. You could also approach the band after service to express your appreciation for their contribution to the service.

Yeah, I know they would have been okay with me doing that but I was feeling like just being in that church was already a big step for me. Maybe later?
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_zeezrom
_Emeritus
Posts: 11938
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:57 pm

Re: Church with a rock band

Post by _zeezrom »

Ceeboo wrote:Hey Zee! :smile:

If you thought a church with a band was cool - you should see what happens when a band has a church!

https://youtu.be/0_CksCHnooM

:smile:


Peace,
Ceeboo

Hey Ceebs, long time no talk! How have you been??

A lot has happened to me, actually. I was just recently divorced, can you believe it?!? It's a new adventure and new start. :)

Anyway, I'm not a huge fan of country music but I can appreciate it and dance to it.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
_cwald
_Emeritus
Posts: 4443
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:53 pm

Re: Church with a rock band

Post by _cwald »

zeezrom wrote:Last night, I went to a church that has a rock band. This was a first for me as the only churches I've ever been to are Mormon (obviously), Catholic, Methodist, and Greek Orthodox. Well, this turned out to be a memorable experience. During their songs, I just wanted to cry. It wasn't a spiritual experience because I don't believe in God or the gods but it was a very moving experience because of how welcoming they seemed. They didn't care about how I dressed, whether I'll show up next week, or if I am worthy. I felt no judgment at all from them. Suddenly i was hit with this realization that I could have grown up this way. As a teenager, I could have lived a life without feeling like I would go to hell where Hitler lives. I would have been okay. They would have taught me to focus on love instead of fear. They would have taught me to help people that are in need because it's what makes us happy not because it wins points with God. I could have learned love but I didn't. I learned fear instead.

The LDS church does more damage to this world than good. I hope the organization gets destroyed someday. I really do.


This is a blistering testament against the LDS church, and well written. Thanks.

The LDS church does more damage to this world than good.


Yes. I think you are correct. The evidence points in that direction.
"Jesus gave us the gospel, but Satan invented church. It takes serious evil to formalize faith into something tedious and then pile guilt on anyone who doesn’t participate enthusiastically." - Robert Kirby

Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. -- Henry Lawson
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