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 Post subject: Question for Nightlion
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:08 pm 
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Nightlion, I posted this on the maroon thread, but it really is a separate topic:

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Growing up, I always felt like I would have had a better chance of entering the Celestial Kingdom if I was a non-member. I felt like non-members actually caught all of the breaks. They didn’t know what the true gospel was, so when they died, they weren’t judged on what they didn’t know. They then had the opportunity to receive the gospel AFTER the removal of the veil! Well, who is going to reject it then? Presto, they accept Jesus, get their ordinances done by proxy, and live happily ever after in the CK.

If you are “lucky” enough to be born in the covenant, you have the responsibility to “be ye therefore perfect”, and if you’re not, you are separated from your family in the next life forever and ever.

As others have stated, how fair is that?


Could you provide me with your insight on this? As I said, this is something that has burdened me my whole life.

I am sincerely interested in your take on this.

Thanks, Nightlion!

:biggrin:

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 Post subject: Re: Question for Nightlion
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:27 pm 
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Very nice of you to inquire from me about this. OH YEAH, I got a take on this.

1. The LDS Church is and has been from the beginning under great and damning condemnation. Like every other false church they pretend all is good with them. IT IS NOT. Never has been. You have never been taught the gospel in the LDS Church. It never passes the lips of leaders, teachers, book writers and missionaries.

2. What right has the Mormon priesthood to administer temple ordinances without discrimination as to who is and who is not clean and worthy to enter into the House of the Lord and receive sealings? They give them to everyone who pays for them. Where is the virtue in that? Should the Lord honor such abomination done in full disregard to his commandments? Should these ordinance have efficacy in eternity when all they do is trample upon the Holy One of Israel in all their lusts for wealth and the honors of men? Are the children of such hypocrisy truly 'born in the convenant'?

3. Your parents were never truly wrought upon and cleansed by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost as Jesus requires of all who are or could be called saints. Nobody is in the LDS Church and neither were their fathers and their father's fathers. It has been condemnation from 1832 on. It never changed. There was no reformation of the Restoration. The real gospel is not taught today, not anywhere and not by anyone. Denver Snuffer never teaches it. All assume that they are just fine the way they are struggling to be righteous in their own conceit.

4. The ONLY ones who get the gospel in the next life are those very few who WOULD have received it in this life, and that with all their hearts, might, mind and strength, unto the laying down of their lives in this world in a broken heart and contrite sacrifice to take upon them the name of Jesus Christ with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy.

5. The LDS money machine wants to keep the wheels spinning and the people busy spending billions to build 150+ temples worldwide to keep the money coming in pretending to saving all humanity. It is pure business. It is not what the Lord commanded. Only one temple would be sufficient to administer to those who ARE worthy and ARE clean from the blood and sins of this generation.

6. How corrupt do you have to be to continue doing this great evil in defiance of the clear and simple commandments of the Lord? And worse they keep the people purposefully blind by flattery and lies that they are called to the pursuit of excellence. The only thing that Jesus requires is a broken heart and contrite spirit. Where is the PERFECTION in that? We rely upon his merits and not upon our own strength. Those who say otherwise do not know the Lord and have never subjected themselves to his kingdom. The LDS champion excellence because they want rich and successful people and not the poor who have forsaken the world for the cause of true righteousness. When you do the gospel right all the world turns against you and spurns you and speak all manner of evil against you and in no wise will they lend a hand to help you prosper and develop your talents. I LIVE THIS. They will cast you out and make you a pariah.

7. Things are not as anyone might suppose. THE WORLD is the LDS Chuch. LOL Jesus has nothing to do with it. From the beginning he denied them. And because Zion was made to fail, Joseph turned against them and gave them up to very vanity for the purpose of keeping the Restoration from complete dissolution while the years roll by until righteousness is sent down for the very end of days.

The apostasy of the LDS Church is not shy from the apostasy of Ahab and Jezebel. Giving that which is forbidden the unwashed is idolatry. Preventing generations from even knowing how to truly obtain salvation is a priestcraft unrivaled. Not even by the worship of Baal. Where now the innocence of children is slaughtered as if the living dead upon the alters or pure greed and lusts for honors of men.

Sorry that I vent excessively. Perhaps all this judgment come off implausible for you. Careful what you ask for.

I will be happy to clear up any misconceptions about what I mean.

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 Post subject: Re: Question for Nightlion
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:10 pm 
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Nightlion wrote:

Very nice of you to inquire from me about this. OH YEAH, I got a take on this.
1. The LDS Church is and has been from the beginning under great and damning condemnation. Like every other false church they pretend all is good with them. IT IS NOT. Never has been. You have never been taught the gospel in the LDS Church. It never passes the lips of leaders, teachers, book writers and missionaries.
<snip>
3. Your parents were never truly wrought upon and cleansed by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost as Jesus requires of all who are or could be called saints. Nobody is in the LDS Church and neither were their fathers and their father's fathers. It has been condemnation from 1832 on. It never changed. There was no reformation of the Restoration. The real gospel is not taught today, not anywhere and not by anyone. Denver Snuffer never teaches it. All assume that they are just fine the way they are struggling to be righteous in their own conceit.
<snip>

Am I understanding these remarks correctly? In your view, the LDS Church that God founded through Joseph Smith never taught the gospel? Even when Smith was its prophet? That's what "from the beginning" and "never" would mean in this context. Smith therefore never taught the gospel, making him a false prophet, it would seem?

Why is 1832 significant?

What does your view then do for a text like the Book of Abraham, translated (VERY loosely using that term) after 1832?

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 Post subject: Re: Question for Nightlion
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Perhaps when Joseph Smith was sustained as President of the High Priests (or whatever it was called)? That's when men took over for God? I dunno. I'm trying to see it through Nightlion's eyes.

- Doc


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 Post subject: Re: Question for Nightlion
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:25 pm 
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Okay, Nightlion I agree, all is lost. Therefore, why should I care?

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 Post subject: Re: Question for Nightlion
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:27 pm 
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Quote:
It has been condemnation from 1832 on.


The temples built by Joseph Smith in Kirtland and Nauvoo are temples of the cult. Joseph Smith was a cultist and the whole religion he founded was a sham.

Jesus Christ is the chief cult figure of all time. The doctrine of blood sacrifice and forgiveness of sin through him is a CULT and is utter nonsense. Jesus Christ's doctrines of blood and fire makes me sick. I want nothing to do with the symbolism that created this cult figure.

Get behind me, Jesus. Depart hence!

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"Say what you like. The figure which Joseph Smith identifies as the 'slave' is not an image of Anubis, nor is it functioning as Anubis in the image that is displayed."


Nightlion confessed:

"I do admit Joseph Smith faked the facsimile translation. . . . Facsimiles................lies"


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 Post subject: Re: Question for Nightlion
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Chuck Finley wrote:
Nightlion wrote:

Very nice of you to inquire from me about this. OH YEAH, I got a take on this.
1. The LDS Church is and has been from the beginning under great and damning condemnation. Like every other false church they pretend all is good with them. IT IS NOT. Never has been. You have never been taught the gospel in the LDS Church. It never passes the lips of leaders, teachers, book writers and missionaries.
<snip>
3. Your parents were never truly wrought upon and cleansed by the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost as Jesus requires of all who are or could be called saints. Nobody is in the LDS Church and neither were their fathers and their father's fathers. It has been condemnation from 1832 on. It never changed. There was no reformation of the Restoration. The real gospel is not taught today, not anywhere and not by anyone. Denver Snuffer never teaches it. All assume that they are just fine the way they are struggling to be righteous in their own conceit.
<snip>

Am I understanding these remarks correctly? In your view, the LDS Church that God founded through Joseph Smith never taught the gospel? Even when Smith was its prophet? That's what "from the beginning" and "never" would mean in this context. Smith therefore never taught the gospel, making him a false prophet, it would seem?

Why is 1832 significant?

What does your view then do for a text like the Book of Abraham, translated (VERY loosely using that term) after 1832?

Joseph was a true saint/prophet. Aside from a couple of brothers from Tennessee named Young and very few others that's it. Joseph taught the gospel and it is contained in the revelations he received. The people of the day were much the same as today. Thinking that their familiarity with the Bible justified them as saints. When they joined the Mormons all their hypocrisy was in-tow.

Joseph had to shepherd the Restoration to not dwindle into oblivion. It was required that it commence before all the lying wonders of Satan got up to speed in the industrial revolution and modern days. Laying a foundation is not a finished work. If Joseph had borne down upon the people at first like I do today nobody would ever know about it these days. It would have been snuffed out. The world would have forgotten the Book of Mormon in ten years time. Joseph did not bring judgment to the line and righteousness to the plummet. He desired to end the conflict and asked God to appoint him elsewhere. (He told this to the Relief Society in 1842)He gave them polygamy and the strong delusion that they were to become gods as predicted in 2 Thessalonians 2 because they did not love the truth, knowing these other vanities would carry the people well into the future. Thus was the Book of Mormon preserved to our day from which future true saints might glean a little faith, hope and charity to work the works of God aright at the end of days.

September 1832 (D&C 84:49-59) is when the Lord put his condemnation upon the entire church for SAYING but not DOING according to that which is written. Joseph carried the weight of the disbelief of the Mormons for as long as he could bear it. Was not that long. Neither he nor his brother were willing to live polygamy openly. They gave themselves up to the grave instead. And the rest is history.

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 Post subject: Re: Question for Nightlion
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Tator wrote:
Okay, Nightlion I agree, all is lost. Therefore, why should I care?

I am not lost! You can be NOT lost too! You ought to care. Come unto Christ with full purpose of heart. Despise the world and toss it behind you as the filthy rag that it is. All manner of wickedness is presently campaigning for their RIGHTS to be accepted. You want to remain part of this _____hole world?

COME OUT ALL YE FROM BABYLON
SING ZION'S SONG
BUILD THE NEW JERUSALEM
BEGIN IN YOUR HEART

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 Post subject: Re: Question for Nightlion
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Nightlion, thank you for taking the time to respond. My question is more from a doctrinal perspective rather than a LDS Church policy perspective.

From a doctrinal view, in the next life, do we have the opportunity to continue progressing to Godhood?

It sounds like what you are saying is that we do. That, as I have always suspected, Heavenly Father sees what is in our hearts, and judges us that way. Is that the case?

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 Post subject: Re: Question for Nightlion
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:46 pm 
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Jesse Pinkman wrote:
Nightlion, thank you for taking the time to respond. My question is more from a doctrinal perspective rather than a LDS Church policy perspective.

From a doctrinal view, in the next life, do we have the opportunity to continue progressing to Godhood?

It sounds like what you are saying is that we do. That, as I have always suspected, Heavenly Father sees what is in our hearts, and judges us that way. Is that the case?

By Godhood you might be thinking of big "G" Godhood. That is not a true doctrine. Godhood for us is exaltation in the continuation of the seeds both in the world and out of the world will they continue from one exaltation to another. Meaning that they will fulfill the commandment of God like Adam and Eve when man was created in the image and likeness of God and COMMANDED to multiply and replenish the 'earth'. (Earth in this context was the heavens above this earth where the spirit bodies of the independent intelligences were given to continue to the Second Estate who did not rebel with the devil and his angels. In the Second chapter of Genesis they finished all the hosts thereof. In one chapter of the Bible billions of years just elapsed from when the man and woman were commanded to multiply to where they were finished with all the hosts thereof. You see, later in the Garden Eve is barren and cannot conceive until her seed is replenished after the fall. That's how they knew all the hosts were finished UP THERE. (Were there multiple
'Eves' UP THERE. Does not matter for the present consideration.

Exalted couples continue from one exaltation to another. That is how they continue and how they are LIKE God who also continues on his eternal round of a course. But God is not a sexual being and does all things by the word of his power. So they continue from where they are to where they were before as Jesus told the Jews in the sixth chapter of the book of John. Meaning that Jesus was going to return to where he once was sitting upon the very throne of the Father. Note that this earth is to where the City of the Living God will be brought to and as it says in the D&C this earth will be Christ's. This requires that the Father vacate his place upon the throne and becomes the next Holy Ghost and he who is now the Holy Ghost will be the beloved Son of that God who in the next generation will be the one who is now Christ. All three of them continue on the same course. And that is why the physical body of Jesus was resurrected and not a glorified celestial body, as he will discard his physical husk when his spirit steps into that body where he was once before. And that is why we have the sacrament to dispose of the physical body of Christ in an instant when all things become new.

Anyone ever read my New Mormon Theology link to below? We never become Gods only 'called' gods of exaltation because we too will lay down our lives and take them again, and again, and again.

Where did Mormons first come up with their wrong notion of eternal progression. Eternal progression just means you continue as I just explained. It does not mean you learn and learn and perfect and perfect until you become like God Almighty. Nonsense.

But you wondered how fair it is for nonmormons to get it in the next life when if Mormons are not perfect they lose it. Mormons never had it to begin with. This because of hypocrisy and their abominations as they willfully sin against the gospel. Never do they get close to doing as Jesus commanded them. Their leaders keep them from it ignorantly if not purposefully. VERY FEW who die without the gospel will GET IT in the next life. The LDS tradition of saving all humanity is bogus. They just want the temples filled with money payers all day everyday all over the world. That is all about greed. If they cared about Christ and were his apostles they would see to it that the people got the gospel right. They do not and prove thereby to be the enemies of righteousness. The sort that would cast out and persecute the just who do get the gospel right.

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 Post subject: Re: Question for Nightlion
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:51 am 
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Thank you, Nightlion, for taking the time to analyze and answer my question. I really appreciate it.

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