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 Post subject: Re: Scapegoated
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:24 am 
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Jesse Pinkman wrote:
Are you going to be posting final vote tallies on that? How many folks still need to vote?


About a dozen people actually bothered to chime in and vote. Shades hasn't even bothered to vote.

Oh well.

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"Say what you like. The figure which Joseph Smith identifies as the 'slave' is not an image of Anubis, nor is it functioning as Anubis in the image that is displayed."


Nightlion confessed:

"I do admit Joseph Smith faked the facsimile translation. . . . Facsimiles................lies"


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 Post subject: Re: Scapegoated
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:42 am 
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Jesse Pinkman wrote:
This is basically what I posted to Lemmie in her “unwanted” PM. I want to make it clear that my words to her were not debasing or abusive in any way.


Did you try to manipulate her like you did me?

Quote:
I think that Shades has done a great job in creating this forum and am a huge supporter in wanting to see the forum succeed.


Then you should do your level best to follow his rules and directives.

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I have been a member here since Shades’ initial creation and even helped moderate the site for a while.


Exactly the reason why you should know what the spirit of the rules are.

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I feel badly that things got so far out of hand on Lemmie’s thread. Again, I own my part. However, I alone did not destroy the integrity of that thread.


You created a derail in a thread that you openly stated that you were "against' because you essentially questioned the ethics of the thread itself. What you could have done and as a former moderator know that you could have done, was to create a topic for the express purpose of discussing board ethicality in relation to DCP. Had you done that, we likely would have wound up in the same situation that we did years ago, where Shades would restate for the board (unless his thinking has changed) that DCP is considered a public person (not, "somewhat" as you claimed) as he did back then.

Quote:
I was goaded into responding even after I had made a determined effort to refrain from posting any further. It was a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation.


No one can force you to post. If you are being personally attacked, as a former moderator you should know what the appropriate response is. Why you failed to employ the appropriate response, is anyone's guess.

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If I could go back in time, I would have never posted anything on the thread to begin with. I have had my feelings hurt, and apparently, a number of folks here blame me as the sole reason for Shades hiring a new moderator.


I think that more to the point, folks see you as sole initiator of the derail on a serious topic thread. I agree with that view.

Quote:
I am sorry that folks feel that way. I can’t do anything to change the past.

I have committed, and will honor the commitment of not posting on any new or old thread that Lemmie initiated regarding the DCP plagiarism.


Super.

Quote:
I don’t know that there is anything further I can commit to in order to make things better at this point.


I have a personal policy that you should be well familiar with. When I am at odds with a person on the board in discussion, I make it a rule never to approach them via private messages during a period of intense conflict. Maybe you could commit to that and stop trying to manipulate and censor folks behind the scenes.

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 Post subject: Re: Scapegoated
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Jesse Pinkman wrote:
This is basically what I posted to Lemmie in her “unwanted” PM. I want to make it clear that my words to her were not debasing or abusive in any way.


Did you try to manipulate her like you did me?

Quote:
I think that Shades has done a great job in creating this forum and am a huge supporter in wanting to see the forum succeed.


Then you should do your level best to follow his rules and directives.

Quote:
I have been a member here since Shades’ initial creation and even helped moderate the site for a while.


Exactly the reason why you should know what the spirit of the rules are.

Quote:
I feel badly that things got so far out of hand on Lemmie’s thread. Again, I own my part. However, I alone did not destroy the integrity of that thread.


You created a derail in a thread that you openly stated that you were "against' because you essentially questioned the ethics of the thread itself. What you could have done and as a former moderator know that you could have done, was to create a topic for the express purpose of discussing board ethicality in relation to DCP. Had you done that, we likely would have wound up in the same situation that we did years ago, where Shades would restate for the board (unless his thinking has changed) that DCP is considered a public person (not, "somewhat" as you claimed) as he did back then.

Quote:
I was goaded into responding even after I had made a determined effort to refrain from posting any further. It was a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation.


No one can force you to post. If you are being personally attacked, as a former moderator you should know what the appropriate response is. Why you failed to employ the appropriate response, is anyone's guess.

Quote:
If I could go back in time, I would have never posted anything on the thread to begin with. I have had my feelings hurt, and apparently, a number of folks here blame me as the sole reason for Shades hiring a new moderator.


I think that more to the point, folks see you as sole initiator of the derail on a serious topic thread. I agree with that view.

Quote:
I am sorry that folks feel that way. I can’t do anything to change the past.

I have committed, and will honor the commitment of not posting on any new or old thread that Lemmie initiated regarding the DCP plagiarism.


Super.

Quote:
I don’t know that there is anything further I can commit to in order to make things better at this point.


I have a personal policy that you should be well familiar with. When I am at odds with a person on the board in discussion, I make it a rule never to approach them via private messages during a period of intense conflict. Maybe you could commit to that and stop trying to manipulate and censor folks behind the scenes.

I was NOT the sole initiator of a derail. You and Lemmie viewed it as a derail, mainly because I disagreed with the OP. Disagreement is NOT derailment. As a former Moderator yourself, YOU should know that.

I was not trying to manipulate anyone behind the scenes. I think that sometimes you can get disagreements resolved without making them public, which is what I was trying to do. Obviously, it didn't work. But again, I did not attack anyone via PM. I appreciate it that you feel differently about communicating via PM. We feel differently when it comes to that. I don't believe that there is a right or wrong either way.

ETA--I noticed that down-thread, you repeat things that you said prior. Simply because you repeat things doesn't make them so. My points still remain and I stand by them.

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Last edited by Jesse Pinkman on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Scapegoated
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Shulem wrote:
Jesse Pinkman wrote:
Are you going to be posting final vote tallies on that? How many folks still need to vote?


About a dozen people actually bothered to chime in and vote. Shades hasn't even bothered to vote.

Oh well.

Do you have a deadline as to when you would like to post a final tally and comment on the results? I would enjoy reading that.

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So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?

"Friends don't let friends be Mormon." Sock Puppet, MormonDiscussions.com.

Music is my drug of choice.

"And that is precisely why none of us apologize for holding it to the celestial standard it pretends that it possesses." Kerry, MormonDiscussions.com
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 Post subject: Re: Scapegoated
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:54 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
I have a personal policy that you should be well familiar with. When I am at odds with a person on the board in discussion, I make it a rule never to approach them via private messages during a period of intense conflict. Maybe you could commit to that and stop trying to manipulate and censor folks behind the scenes.


amen,

Jesse Pinkman, please keep your correspondence with me public.


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 Post subject: Re: Scapegoated
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:55 pm 
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RockSlider wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
I have a personal policy that you should be well familiar with. When I am at odds with a person on the board in discussion, I make it a rule never to approach them via private messages during a period of intense conflict. Maybe you could commit to that and stop trying to manipulate and censor folks behind the scenes.


amen,

Jesse Pinkman, please keep your correspondence with me public.

Fine with me.

ETA-I also acknowledge Lemmie’s request down thread. That is fine as well.

Rock made the comment down thread that I attempted to manipulate him behind the scenes. That is not the case. He personally attacked me. I reported his post and asked him if he would have Class enough to edit the offending post himself.

I’m adding these edits to prior posts of mine because I have no intention of driving this thread up to the top and drawing more undue attention to it.

I have stated my case. I appreciate Shades allowing my comments to stand. That was my ultimate goal. The topic can now continue uninterrupted by me.

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So you're chasing around a fly and in your world, I'm the idiot?

"Friends don't let friends be Mormon." Sock Puppet, MormonDiscussions.com.

Music is my drug of choice.

"And that is precisely why none of us apologize for holding it to the celestial standard it pretends that it possesses." Kerry, MormonDiscussions.com
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Last edited by Jesse Pinkman on Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Scapegoated
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
I have a personal policy that you should be well familiar with. When I am at odds with a person on the board in discussion, I make it a rule never to approach them via private messages during a period of intense conflict. Maybe you could commit to that and stop trying to manipulate and censor folks behind the scenes.

RockSlider wrote:
amen,

Jesse Pinkman, please keep your correspondence with me public.

amen also, and Jesse Pinkman, same request from me.


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 Post subject: Re: Scapegoated
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Jesse Pinkman wrote:
I was NOT the sole initiator of a derail. You and Lemmie viewed it as a derail, mainly because I disagreed with the OP. Disagreement is NOT derailment. As a former Moderator yourself, YOU should know that.

I repeat.

You created a derail in a thread that you openly stated that you were "against' because you essentially questioned the ethics of the thread itself. What you could have done and as a former moderator know that you could have done, was to create a topic for the express purpose of discussing board ethicality in relation to DCP. Had you done that, we likely would have wound up in the same situation that we did years ago, where Shades would restate for the board (unless his thinking has changed) that DCP is considered a public person (not, "somewhat" as you claimed) as he did back then.

And this.

No one can force you to post. If you are being personally attacked, as a former moderator you should know what the appropriate response is. Why you failed to employ the appropriate response, is anyone's guess.

Quote:
I was not trying to manipulate anyone behind the scenes. I think that sometimes you can get disagreements resolved without making them public, which is what I was trying to do. Obviously, it didn't work. But again, I did not attack anyone via PM. I appreciate it that you feel differently about communicating via PM. We feel differently when it comes to that. I don't believe that there is a right or wrong either way.

And this.

I have a personal policy that you should be well familiar with. When I am at odds with a person on the board in discussion, I make it a rule never to approach them via private messages during a period of intense conflict. Maybe you could commit to that and stop trying to manipulate and censor folks behind the scenes.


There was a manipulation element to your third message. When you tell another person behind the scenes or even in full public view that you think it's best if we stay away from each other, you are attempting to strike a contract wherein you seek to control the behavior of another and in terms of a board such as this, you are attempting to censor them.

If you want to stay away from me or another poster, then stay away. It's bad form to try to manipulate others into an agreement to do the same. That is why you have folks with whom you are in conflict telling you publicly to stay out of their private messages during instances of conflict. This has happened repeatedly over the years. I don't know how many years it takes for you to get the message.

So, if I have to spell it out. If I am openly in conflict with you on the board, do NOT jump into my private messages for any reason until whatever the conflict is has reached it's natural conclusion. I see it as weak and manipulative, not to mention a pain in my ass.

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 Post subject: Re: Scapegoated
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:22 pm 
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I can't think of a single time when I've violated that personal policy Jesse Pinkman. It's possible that I have, but I cannot recall it.

When you are in conflict with someone on the board and approach them behind the scenes, it smacks of you trying to get someone off your back on the board.

The wiser course, in my view, is to either engage the conflict openly where god and everyone can see it and see it through, reach an agreement ON the board, or drop the matter entirely. In the past, I've opted for the first and third.

Telling someone behind the scenes that you think it's best if we just stay away from each other, is again, attempting to strike a contract with another person. I suppose there are folks around here who thinks that's an okay thing to do. I am not one of them. The only two people on this board who are in a position to control my behavior on the board are myself and Shades.

Hopefully I do it myself before I cause him a problem. I make no claim to perfection in that regard.

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 Post subject: Re: Scapegoated
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:25 pm 
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Location: Somewhere between bemused and curious.
I give the over under on how many pages this thread goes at 6.
:rolleyes:

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 Post subject: Re: Scapegoated
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
I give the over under on how many pages this thread goes at 6.
:rolleyes:


I dunno. If someone keeps trying to play "Let's make a deal" with me, the thread could easily become eternal.

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 Post subject: Re: Scapegoated
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:28 pm 
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Jesse Pinkman wrote:
Do you have a deadline as to when you would like to post a final tally and comment on the results? I would enjoy reading that.


Not really. Just winging it and playing it by ear.

Really though, you need to walk away from this thread. Let it go. Let them get the last word and move on.

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Foolish zerinus said:

"Say what you like. The figure which Joseph Smith identifies as the 'slave' is not an image of Anubis, nor is it functioning as Anubis in the image that is displayed."


Nightlion confessed:

"I do admit Joseph Smith faked the facsimile translation. . . . Facsimiles................lies"


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 Post subject: Re: Scapegoated
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:30 pm 
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Fence Sitter wrote:
I give the over under on how many pages this thread goes at 6.
:rolleyes:

No, it's going to stop right now.

STOP!

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Foolish zerinus said:

"Say what you like. The figure which Joseph Smith identifies as the 'slave' is not an image of Anubis, nor is it functioning as Anubis in the image that is displayed."


Nightlion confessed:

"I do admit Joseph Smith faked the facsimile translation. . . . Facsimiles................lies"


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 Post subject: Re: Scapegoated
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:47 pm 
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RockSlider wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
I have a personal policy that you should be well familiar with. When I am at odds with a person on the board in discussion, I make it a rule never to approach them via private messages during a period of intense conflict. Maybe you could commit to that and stop trying to manipulate and censor folks behind the scenes.


amen,


Heard from me lately?

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Scapegoated
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:18 pm 
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Jersey Girl wrote:
Heard from me lately?
:lol:


I was not poking at you in anyway. I was receiving pressure/direction for my single post in the whole thread.


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 Post subject: Re: DCP's ongoing problem with plagiarism
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:23 pm 
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I have a question wrote:
That posters Agenda, as you rightly point out, was to drown the thread in personal drama drivel.

Don’t give it up Lemmie.

Thanks, IHAQ, and thanks to Dr. Shades, many, many pages of that drivel have now been moved, so hopefully the thread is back on track.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the ''DCP / plagiarism'' thread, PART ONE
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:30 pm 
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[MODERATOR NOTE: The deed is done; the topic has been split. I admit that some ostensibly on-topic posts were moved into this thread as well, but those were to preserve the integrity and "flow" of the discussion. Any posts containing documentation are still in the original thread.

Lemmie, if there are some posts that you judge should be there instead of here and vice-versa, please let me know.

TL;DR: All done!!]

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the ''DCP / plagiarism'' thread, PART ONE
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:24 pm 
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Dr. Shades wrote:
[MODERATOR NOTE: The deed is done; the topic has been split. I admit that some ostensibly on-topic posts were moved into this thread as well, but those were to preserve the integrity and "flow" of the discussion. Any posts containing documentation are still in the original thread.

Lemmie, if there are some posts that you judge should be there instead of here and vice-versa, please let me know.

TL;DR: All done!!]


Thank you, thank you, thank you!!


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the ''DCP / plagiarism'' thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:59 pm 
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jesse pinkman, this thread, 1.11.18, 12:46pm wrote:
I have committed, and will honor the commitment of not posting on any new or old thread that Lemmie initiated regarding the DCP plagiarism.

:rolleyes:
jesse pinkman, also this thread, 1.12.18, 10:39am, wrote:
I'm adding these edits to prior posts of mine because I have no intention of driving this thread up to the top and drawing more undue attention to it.

I have stated my case. I appreciate Shades allowing my comments to stand. That was my ultimate goal. The topic can now continue uninterrupted by me.


Jesse Pinkman wrote:
Simply because you repeat things doesn't make them so


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion of the ''DCP / plagiarism'' thread
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:39 pm 
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Wait. That middle quote was an edit. I noticed yet another edit above.

So what? That's appreciation for letting the comments stand while she shoves in a few more for good measure?

I've seen everything.

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